07-14-2014 07:46 AM
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  1. Live2ride883's Avatar
    With respect to the car-mounted battering ram, let me throw out a scenario. Let's say there is a rich CEO of a corporation driving his car on a narrow city street. Suddenly, criminals block the street in the front and in the back with their own cars. The criminals intend to kidnap the CEO for ransom. If the CEO had a battering ram in front of his car, wouldn't it be acceptable for him to ram his way out of this trap and escape? If a criminal or two gets injured or killed, that shouldn't be a problem because this is self-defense, right?

    As to the point about civilian grade weapons, I am willing to hear all sides. This discussion has brought out answers that I didn't think about, and I'm interested to hear what people have to say.
    If this CEO in your scenario is such a high value target, odds are he would already have a security detail and more than likely not be traveling in a chevette or escort. He would more than likely be in an armored or at least protected SUV with a weight of over 2000 pounds. At that point the battering ram wouldn't really make a difference.IMO
    09-12-2013 06:31 PM
  2. Live2ride883's Avatar

    As to the point about civilian grade weapons, I am willing to hear all sides. This discussion has brought out answers that I didn't think about, and I'm interested to hear what people have to say.
    I'm glad to hear your willing to listen to both sides. My advice is to do the research, learn the difference between a select fire, semi-auto, and a full auto weapon. Also what is a magazine and what is a clip. There are several threads here that have been closed that have great information on gun deaths vs cars, knives etc. The FBI site is a good site for this type of information.

    You don't have to be an expert, but at least know the basics.
    09-12-2013 06:46 PM
  3. Live2ride883's Avatar
    American Psychiatric Association rendered a Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) which is a useful text for disorders and classification.
    Let's not forget until a few years ago they listed homosexuality as a mental illness.
    09-12-2013 06:54 PM
  4. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Honestly, I think a battering ram on a car is rather tame. I've heard of an option to put flame throwers in cars to deter carjacking
    In Ohio you cannot use deadly force to protect your property from being stolen. I believe I can pull a gun out and threaten, but if I pull the trigger without my life, or the life of my family being in danger then I can be prosecuted under the law.

    An exception to this of course is if the criminal is brandishing a deadly weapon such as a gun.
    09-12-2013 06:59 PM
  5. llamabreath's Avatar
    In Ohio you cannot use deadly force to protect your property from being stolen. I believe I can pull a gun out and threaten, but if I pull the trigger without my life, or the life of my family being in danger then I can be prosecuted under the law.

    An exception to this of course is if the criminal is brandishing a deadly weapon such as a gun.
    But anything besides a pillow and a Q-tip can be turned into a deadly weapon.

    09-12-2013 07:37 PM
  6. Fairclough's Avatar
    What factors should we consider in a particular area when it comes to weapons?

    You mention shot guns being needed for cattle. I suppose shot guns would be necessary if I were herding cattle and a pack of wolves decided to attack. I could use a shot gun to defend myself and my cattle. However, if I do not have cattle or if I live in an area that does not have wolves, can I still own a shot gun as a civilian?
    Shot guns are issued for pest control too,a solve would be a pest.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    09-12-2013 07:39 PM
  7. llamabreath's Avatar
    Shot guns are issued for pest control too,a solve would be a pest.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    Hell yeah

    Solves and cockroaches!

    09-12-2013 07:44 PM
  8. Fairclough's Avatar
    Since when are things only used only for the purpose they were designed????

    Other than that it sounds like you're trying to "box" in the conversation to have the outcome be what you want it...
    No I am not boxing it in. The thread is about weapons.

    weapon**
    /ˈwepən/
    Noun
    A thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    09-12-2013 07:48 PM
  9. llamabreath's Avatar
    No I am not boxing it in. The thread is about weapons.

    weapon**
    /ˈwepən/
    Noun
    A thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    Even a shirt can be used to choke someone and kill them. ANYTHING can be a weapon.

    09-12-2013 07:50 PM
  10. Fairclough's Avatar
    Let's not forget until a few years ago they listed homosexuality as a mental illness.
    Most did. When it was overturned only 4 voted against it out of I believe nearly 150 people.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    09-12-2013 07:51 PM
  11. llamabreath's Avatar
    Water boiling on the stove to make pasta can be a "deadly weapon".

    09-12-2013 07:55 PM
  12. Live2ride883's Avatar
    But anything besides a pillow and a Q-tip can be turned into a deadly weapon.

    Actually a pillow is often used to smother someone, I am sure someone could figure out a way to kill with a q-tip.

    For example, you could remove the cotton , sharpen the plastic core and push it into the eye or ears to penetrate the brain.
    09-12-2013 08:11 PM
  13. llamabreath's Avatar
    Actually a pillow is often used to smother someone, I am sure someone could figure out a way to kill with a q-tip.
    You're right, i forgot about that.

    Uhhhhh.... oh! One of those 'beauty cotton puff' things the ladies use to take nail polish off with... Surely that can't be used to kill someone... unless.... :evil: ...

    09-12-2013 08:18 PM
  14. Live2ride883's Avatar
    You're right, i forgot about that.

    Uhhhhh.... oh! One of those 'beauty cotton puff' things the ladies use to take nail polish off with... Surely that can't be used to kill someone... unless.... :evil: ...

    Cram enough into the nose and mouth and you can still smother someone....
    09-12-2013 08:21 PM
  15. llamabreath's Avatar
    Cram enough into the nose and mouth and you can still smother someone....
    Exactly..... hmmm.... and the person would be called "The Cotton Puff Thingy the Ladies Use to Remove Nail Polish Murderer"!

    Live2ride883 likes this.
    09-12-2013 08:24 PM
  16. Live2ride883's Avatar
    No I am not boxing it in. The thread is about weapons.

    weapon**
    /ˈwepən/
    Noun
    A thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.
    Weapon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Weapon: A weapon, arm, or armament is any device used in order to inflict damage or harm to living beings, structures, or systems. Weapons are used to increase the efficacy and efficiency of activities such as hunting, crime, law enforcement, self-defense, and warfare. In a broader context, weapons may be construed to include anything used to gain a strategic, material or mental advantage over an adversary.

    While ordinary objects such as sticks, stones, cars, or pencils can be used as weapons, many are expressly designed for the purpose ranging from simple implements such as clubs to swords and guns, and to complicated modern intercontinental ballistic missiles, biological and cyberweapons.
    09-12-2013 08:27 PM
  17. llamabreath's Avatar
    For example, you could remove the cotton , sharpen the plastic core and push it into the eye or ears to penetrate the brain.
    INGENIOUS!

    lol lol

    Live2ride883 likes this.
    09-12-2013 08:33 PM
  18. gollum18's Avatar
    But anything besides a pillow and a Q-tip can be turned into a deadly weapon.

    Qtips are actually quite sharp if you remove the fluffy caps from them.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    09-12-2013 10:35 PM
  19. Scott7217's Avatar
    Legislating weapon ownership is simply band-aiding an issue, not addressing the root cause.
    Luckily, this forum thread welcomes the discussion of changing the law if necessary. Taking that into account, can you give an example of the deadliest weapon that a civilian can own, in your opinion?

    So far, this thread has come down to discussing the lethal aspects of Q-tips. (We may be coming to a consensus that Q-tips are more dangerous if you remove the cotton.) Still, it would be nice if you could provide an example that is not related to cotton swabs manufactured by the Unilever company.
    09-15-2013 11:22 PM
  20. llamabreath's Avatar
    So far, this thread has come down to discussing the lethal aspects of Q-tips. (We may be coming to a consensus that Q-tips are more dangerous if you remove the cotton.) Still, it would be nice if you could provide an example that is not related to cotton swabs manufactured by the Unilever company.
    Well, the cheap cotton swabs (found in 99 stores) are less lethal than the Unilever ones. They bend way too easily.

    bigdaddytee and Scott7217 like this.
    09-15-2013 11:41 PM
  21. Maria Esponoza's Avatar
    Luckily, this forum thread welcomes the discussion of changing the law if necessary. Taking that into account, can you give an example of the deadliest weapon that a civilian can own, in your opinion?

    So far, this thread has come down to discussing the lethal aspects of Q-tips. (We may be coming to a consensus that Q-tips are more dangerous if you remove the cotton.) Still, it would be nice if you could provide an example that is not related to cotton swabs manufactured by the Unilever company.
    Well, Ill give it a try. The problem is that you have posed a rather black and white question, on a very much gray-area topic. For example, that depends on if you're asking in the context of realistically, or legally/fundamentally. From a realistic standpoint I can't see that most people "need" an assault rifle. Can you hunt with them? Sure. Can you defend your home with them? Sure, but depending on ammo you may have over-penetration issues that could hurt or kill someone else in the next house, room, apartment, etc. Are there better tools to defend your home with? I think so. I would imagine a pistol or shotgun would be much better suited to help in that situation. So, I even find myself in a mixed feeling territory in this regard. I grew up with guns, was taught about them at an early age, my dad taught me how to shoot when I was like 3. I did the girls shooting team in school, and loved it. I own two AR-15's (not select fire). I most definitely don't want to give them up or lose my right to own them, but I think there are a lot of people who have no business owning or possessing them.

    I would be more inclined to, rather than limiting what people can own, requiring some sort of proficiency testing in regards to them. In my humble opinion firearms can be tools or weapons, just like a car. In general we dont deny people the right to buy and drive any car they want, we simply require them to demonstrate a minimum level of proficiency in order to operate one. In regards to restricting automatic weapons, etc. I would say that what we have right now works well. Currently to own a fully automatic weapon you must buy a tax stamp, apply through the ATF, do a background, fingerprints, etc. You have to register your address with the US Govt., and let them know everything about you. So, a person who owns a fully automatic weapon legally has went through a lot of time, money and effort to do so. Anyone who goes to that trouble to obey the law, in my opinion, is not a likely candidate to use it in the commission of a crime. Basically Im saying that I probably wouldn't change a thing in re: how automatic weapons, grenade launchers, etc. are owned. I think that if someone wants to own them, and are willing to go through the time/money to get them, they should be able to do so.

    So, there's a few of my thoughts. I hope I at least somewhat answered your question! I don't want to sound like a politician and skirt around the question, but at the same time its hard to make a bullet list of what people can and cant have.

    -Maria
    jdbii, Fairclough and Scott7217 like this.
    09-16-2013 10:17 AM
  22. Fairclough's Avatar
    Three words:
    Washington automatic gun.


    Truly sad and horrible.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    09-16-2013 07:03 PM
  23. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Three words:
    Washington automatic gun.


    Truly sad and horrible.
    While I do agree that this is a tragic event, I do wish you would stop referring to an ar15 as an automatic weapon.

    An ar15 is a SEMIAUTOMATIC...

    Navy Yard shooting rampage: 12 killed, dead suspect identified - CNN.com
    cdmjlt369 and bigdaddytee like this.
    09-16-2013 08:00 PM
  24. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    While I do agree that this is a tragic event, I do wish you would stop referring to an ar15 as an automatic weapon.

    An ar15 is a SEMIAUTOMATIC...

    Navy Yard shooting rampage: 12 killed, dead suspect identified - CNN.com
    And preliminary reports suggest the 9mm and AR rifle were taken off police on the base. Hmmm...wonder why they aren't talking about that part. And again...in a gun safe zone.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    bigdaddytee likes this.
    09-16-2013 08:15 PM
  25. Fairclough's Avatar
    Radio reports just said automatic, didn't state the gun - my bad.
    There isn't much between the two, both you can shoot relatively quickly.
    Seems like the AR 15 is a weapon of choice in most massacres.
    09-16-2013 08:53 PM
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