07-14-2014 07:46 AM
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  1. Scott7217's Avatar
    I should go purchase a grenade launcher just because.
    I think a lot of people think you can't buy a grenade launcher, when in reality, it's perfectly legal to do so.

    In fact, if you think of things people can legally buy, the list would be impressive. In addition to a grenade launcher, you can get an AR-15 rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun, a .357 magnum revolver, and a 9 mm pistol with a suppressor. You have firearms suitable for various roles, including self-defense, hunting, and recreation. Can we still say that our Second Amendment rights are being infringed?
    10-30-2013 01:28 PM
  2. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I think a lot of people think you can't buy a grenade launcher, when in reality, it's perfectly legal to do so.

    In fact, if you think of things people can legally buy, the list would be impressive. In addition to a grenade launcher, you can get an AR-15 rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun, a .357 magnum revolver, and a 9 mm pistol with a suppressor. You have firearms suitable for various roles, including self-defense, hunting, and recreation. Can we still say that our Second Amendment rights are being infringed?
    Depends on how you define infringement.

    In the most absolute terms, the 2nd amendment is being trampled all over because there are limits on what when and how you buy firearms.

    Then of course there is everything in between that and the right for a "state militia" with no private ownership.


    Here is what is terrifying, I recently have seen text books with the amendments misquoted and their explanation biased heavily towards liberal ideas. The most notable being the 2nd amendment. They are teaching our children out of these books. It is one thing to have passive doctorination by having entire sections of books praising the New Deal program like when I was in grade school, it is a whole other to intentionally misquote the fundamental document that governs this country just to sway the thoughts of children.
    10-30-2013 03:43 PM
  3. Scott7217's Avatar
    Depends on how you define infringement.

    In the most absolute terms, the 2nd amendment is being trampled all over because there are limits on what when and how you buy firearms.

    Then of course there is everything in between that and the right for a "state militia" with no private ownership.
    Weren't a lot of laws banning the possession of firearms overturned in court?
    10-30-2013 04:52 PM
  4. Scott7217's Avatar
    Here is what is terrifying, I recently have seen text books with the amendments misquoted and their explanation biased heavily towards liberal ideas. The most notable being the 2nd amendment. They are teaching our children out of these books. It is one thing to have passive doctorination by having entire sections of books praising the New Deal program like when I was in grade school, it is a whole other to intentionally misquote the fundamental document that governs this country just to sway the thoughts of children.
    I believe most textbooks need to be approved by the Texas Board of Education first. Since Texas has a large population, the publishers tailor the books to Texas' needs. After that, the other states just buy the same books. I would be curious to see what is written in the textbooks that you mentioned.
    msndrstood likes this.
    10-30-2013 04:55 PM
  5. JW4VZW's Avatar
    If I got one it would be a similar story actually. I do not yet have a gun safe and would not want to keep it with me until I do.

    On a side note, I am looking at maybe getting a Glock 19 for carry.
    I love my Glock. I looked at the Glock 19, but wanted something with more power than a 9mm. This is how I ended up with a Glock G31, which shoots 357.
    10-31-2013 12:23 PM
  6. JW4VZW's Avatar
    I think a lot of people think you can't buy a grenade launcher, when in reality, it's perfectly legal to do so.

    In fact, if you think of things people can legally buy, the list would be impressive. In addition to a grenade launcher, you can get an AR-15 rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun, a .357 magnum revolver, and a 9 mm pistol with a suppressor. You have firearms suitable for various roles, including self-defense, hunting, and recreation. Can we still say that our Second Amendment rights are being infringed?
    I wouldn't mind a 357 magnum revolver. The main reason that I got my Glock G31 was because it is a 357, which means more stopping power. I still argue that our Second Amendment Rights are being infringed upon, with states limiting the magazine capacity and the types of guns that you can purchase. In addition some states barely issue concealed carry permits, which does infringe upon the Second Amendment Rights.
    10-31-2013 12:32 PM
  7. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Depends on how you define infringement.

    In the most absolute terms, the 2nd amendment is being trampled all over because there are limits on what when and how you buy firearms.

    Then of course there is everything in between that and the right for a "state militia" with no private ownership.


    Here is what is terrifying, I recently have seen text books with the amendments misquoted and their explanation biased heavily towards liberal ideas. The most notable being the 2nd amendment. They are teaching our children out of these books. It is one thing to have passive doctorination by having entire sections of books praising the New Deal program like when I was in grade school, it is a whole other to intentionally misquote the fundamental document that governs this country just to sway the thoughts of children.
    And the left will not stop until the Second Amendment is eliminated. That is crazy with the text books. Sadly it is the same way in colleges. Luckily a few of my college history and political science classes were taught by professors who were right leaning. Sadly I had my share of liberal professors.
    10-31-2013 12:37 PM
  8. Scott7217's Avatar
    I still argue that our Second Amendment Rights are being infringed upon, with states limiting the magazine capacity and the types of guns that you can purchase. In addition some states barely issue concealed carry permits, which does infringe upon the Second Amendment Rights.
    Does anyone have legal standing on those issues? I believe that if a particular law personally affects you, you can bring the government to court to overturn them. I think they were able to overturn a law in Washington, D.C. that way.
    10-31-2013 03:02 PM
  9. Scott7217's Avatar
    And the left will not stop until the Second Amendment is eliminated. That is crazy with the text books.
    The Texas Board of Education often approves school textbooks, and the publishers then sell the textbooks to other states. I don't view Texas as being on the left when it comes to the Second Amendment.
    msndrstood likes this.
    10-31-2013 03:05 PM
  10. Aquila's Avatar
    Depends on how you define infringement.

    In the most absolute terms, the 2nd amendment is being trampled all over because there are limits on what when and how you buy firearms.

    Then of course there is everything in between that and the right for a "state militia" with no private ownership.


    Here is what is terrifying, I recently have seen text books with the amendments misquoted and their explanation biased heavily towards liberal ideas. The most notable being the 2nd amendment. They are teaching our children out of these books. It is one thing to have passive doctorination by having entire sections of books praising the New Deal program like when I was in grade school, it is a whole other to intentionally misquote the fundamental document that governs this country just to sway the thoughts of children.
    What did the text books say?
    11-02-2013 12:42 AM
  11. gamefreak715's Avatar
    And the left will not stop until the Second Amendment is eliminated. That is crazy with the text books. Sadly it is the same way in colleges. Luckily a few of my college history and political science classes were taught by professors who were right leaning. Sadly I had my share of liberal professors.
    I'm very liberal and I do own a gun (Springfield XD .40). Not all liberals want the 2nd amendment abolished. Actually, most don't. We just want to keep guns out of irresponsible hands. If that means me waiting a few minutes longer for my background check, worthy sacrifice.

    Posted via Android Central App
    11-02-2013 03:27 AM
  12. JW4VZW's Avatar
    I'm very liberal and I do own a gun (Springfield XD .40). Not all liberals want the 2nd amendment abolished. Actually, most don't. We just want to keep guns out of irresponsible hands. If that means me waiting a few minutes longer for my background check, worthy sacrifice.

    Posted via Android Central App
    I purchased my car in under two hours. My last handgun took over two months to get due to the background check. Here is a fact, cars kill more people than guns. I do not understand why the left wants to severely limit my right to purchase guns.
    11-02-2013 12:03 PM
  13. Aquila's Avatar
    My last handgun took over two months to get due to the background check.
    That's a pretty big problem with the background check. Was that the first time you'd ever applied?

    In Iowa it's around 3-7 days (depending on demand) the 1st time you apply for a purchase permit or a CCW (which has purchase included), then no time at the store (they just photo copy the permit card). Renewals take about 24 hours. Purchase permits are renewed annually and CCW's are renewed every 5 years. Alll in all it took about 30 minutes of my time to get the permit with less than a week lag in between and there are no waits at the store.
    gamefreak715 likes this.
    11-02-2013 03:03 PM
  14. bradleyem's Avatar
    Here in Ohio I can go into a gun store, pick out a gun, and the background check takes just enough time so that I can spend all of my money in the store. Last one took around 15 minutes.

    I would have no problem with more thorough universal background checks and better required training to obtain a CCW. As long as there is a universal concealed carry license. Unified sensible carry laws for the entire US. No more reciprocity agreements. If you have a CCW than you can carry anywhere in the United States.

    Sent from my XT926 using Tapatalk
    gamefreak715 and bigdaddytee like this.
    11-02-2013 03:37 PM
  15. Aquila's Avatar
    Here in Ohio I can go into a gun store, pick out a gun, and the background check takes just enough time so that I can spend all of my money in the store. Last one took around 15 minutes.

    I would have no problem with more thorough universal background checks and better required training to obtain a CCW. As long as there is a universal concealed carry license. Unified sensible carry laws for the entire US. No more reciprocity agreements. If you have a CCW than you can carry anywhere in the United States.

    Sent from my XT926 using Tapatalk
    It's kinda funny that my CCW is for a Ka-Bar and I didn't have to do any testing for the initial permit, but to renew it I still have to range qualify with a pistol.
    11-02-2013 03:45 PM
  16. JW4VZW's Avatar
    That's a pretty big problem with the background check. Was that the first time you'd ever applied?

    In Iowa it's around 3-7 days (depending on demand) the 1st time you apply for a purchase permit or a CCW (which has purchase included), then no time at the store (they just photo copy the permit card). Renewals take about 24 hours. Purchase permits are renewed annually and CCW's are renewed every 5 years. Alll in all it took about 30 minutes of my time to get the permit with less than a week lag in between and there are no waits at the store.
    No, it was not. That was, I believe, my fourth gun purchase and second handgun.
    11-02-2013 04:27 PM
  17. bradleyem's Avatar
    I will say that there are many people who carry who have no clue about gun safety. I do believe that training and even re-qualification should be mandatory. And that doesn't mean just putting holes in paper. Extensive safety training and simulation using real scenarios should be part of the CCW requirements. But that's just my opinion. I go to the range at least once a month and attend tactical training as often as I can.

    Sent from my XT926 using Tapatalk
    11-02-2013 04:28 PM
  18. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Here in Ohio I can go into a gun store, pick out a gun, and the background check takes just enough time so that I can spend all of my money in the store. Last one took around 15 minutes.

    I would have no problem with more thorough universal background checks and better required training to obtain a CCW. As long as there is a universal concealed carry license. Unified sensible carry laws for the entire US. No more reciprocity agreements. If you have a CCW than you can carry anywhere in the United States.

    Sent from my XT926 using Tapatalk
    I am all for a unified gun law, provided it isn't almost unobtainable. Pretty soon only the criminals will be able to purchase a gun.
    11-02-2013 04:29 PM
  19. JW4VZW's Avatar
    I will say that there are many people who carry who have no clue about gun safety. I do believe that training and even re-qualification should be mandatory. And that doesn't mean just putting holes in paper. Extensive safety training and simulation using real scenarios should be part of the CCW requirements. But that's just my opinion. I go to the range at least once a month and attend tactical training as often as I can.

    Sent from my XT926 using Tapatalk
    I agree. After all you do have to go through training and tests to get a drivers license. Like you, I think that there are some people who have no clue about gun safety. I used to see it all of the time when I was in the military and especially at BMT. That being said, I am not for limiting ones ability to legally obtain a gun.
    11-02-2013 04:35 PM
  20. NoYankees44's Avatar
    What did the text books say?
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...ond-amendment/

    Text book: "the people have the right to keep and bear arms in a state militia"

    Actual written 2nd amendment: " A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. "

    For starters, the word "state" is used with 2 completely different meanings. Further, the misquote implies that the amendment only allows arms in a militia, which is not what is stated in the amendment.

    If someone wants to argue politics or personal freedoms, that is fine. But to purposely miss quote the governing document of the land in an effort to sway opinions shows dishonesty and weakness of intelligence and character. To do this to children that do not know better is unacceptable on an even deeper level. At least give the children the facts. The indoctrinated teachers the left controls will do the rest for them. And I know this because my wife is a teacher and deals with the controlling unions and bias standards every single day.
    11-02-2013 09:29 PM
  21. bradleyem's Avatar
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...ond-amendment/

    Text book: "the people have the right to keep and bear arms in a state militia"

    Actual written 2nd amendment: " A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. "

    For starters, the word "state" is used with 2 completely different meanings. Further, the misquote implies that the amendment only allows arms in a militia, which is not what is stated in the amendment.

    If someone wants to argue politics or personal freedoms, that is fine. But to purposely miss quote the governing document of the land in an effort to sway opinions shows dishonesty and weakness of intelligence and character. To do this to children that do not know better is unacceptable on an even deeper level. At least give the children the facts. The indoctrinated teachers the left controls will do the rest for them. And I know this because my wife is a teacher and deals with the controlling unions and bias standards every single day.
    "dishonesty and weakness of intelligence and character"

    In our schools???

    Couldn't be

    Kinda' like the schools "Zero Common Sense....err I mean tolerance" rules that they think that they can enforce, even while students are not in school or on school property...


    Sent from my XT926 using Tapatalk
    bigdaddytee likes this.
    11-02-2013 09:35 PM
  22. bradleyem's Avatar
    I am all for a unified gun law, provided it isn't almost unobtainable. Pretty soon only the criminals will be able to purchase a gun.
    And THAT is the very basic concept that anti gun extremists cannot grasp...that you can pass all of the LAWS that you want. Outlaw this and outlaw that, but CRIMINALS, by definition, do not follow laws, and therefore, will always find a way to illegally obtain weapons. If they want to hurt or kill someone the LAWS aren't going to stop them. And even if they can't get a gun, they will find another way.

    Sent from my XT926 using Tapatalk
    11-02-2013 09:42 PM
  23. Aquila's Avatar
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. (Emphasis by bold is mine, capitilization exists in the original)

    For nearly 150 years we as a nation believed that the 2nd Amendment had nothing to do with personal weapon ownership. Legal ownership was a given concept and gun controls, particularly within city limits have always existed and were obviously necessary. It was obvious that the Federal government couldn't confiscate arms (also known as personal property) from law abiding citizens, because the 4th, 9th and 10th Amendments all clearly provide such protection, the latter two indicate that the Federal Goverment can't just invent new powers for themselves that are not specifically in the document, without first amending it to allow said changes. State and local governments do have the right to regulate arms, however they still must operate within the Constitution and cannot confiscate personal property without just cause, typically involving a warrant. Now that the 2nd Amendment is interpreted as being related to personal ownership, those protections are effectively reinforced, but unchanged.
    11-02-2013 10:05 PM
  24. Aquila's Avatar
    Text book: "the people have the right to keep and bear arms in a state militia"
    One wonders if they're trying to paraphrase and failing or if it's deliberate. In either case, it is really strange that those made it through editors without any comment and then made it through review in Texas and into schools. That'd make me want to comb through their history books for other washovers, because whether deliberate or not, it's still very misleading and makes you wonder what other misunderstandings are rampant in these books.
    11-02-2013 10:16 PM
  25. NoYankees44's Avatar
    One wonders if they're trying to paraphrase and failing or if it's deliberate. In either case, it is really strange that those made it through editors without any comment and then made it through review in Texas and into schools. That'd make me want to comb through their history books for other washovers, because whether deliberate or not, it's still very misleading and makes you wonder what other misunderstandings are rampant in these books.
    That would be the most concerning possibility. What else has been misrepresented?
    11-02-2013 10:34 PM
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