07-14-2014 07:46 AM
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  1. JW4VZW's Avatar
    And THAT is the very basic concept that anti gun extremists cannot grasp...that you can pass all of the LAWS that you want. Outlaw this and outlaw that, but CRIMINALS, by definition, do not follow laws, and therefore, will always find a way to illegally obtain weapons. If they want to hurt or kill someone the LAWS aren't going to stop them. And even if they can't get a gun, they will find another way.

    Sent from my XT926 using Tapatalk
    I know what you're saying. Also, I know that I can drive up to Richmond and walk downtown and buy a gun from someone and not even have to do a background check. Like I have said before, democrats will not be happy until criminals are the only ones who have guns. The most illegal thing I do is drive eighty miles per hour on the interstate, where the speed limit is sixty-five, and I wouldn't say that is illegal at all.
    11-03-2013 10:34 AM
  2. gamefreak715's Avatar
    That would be the most concerning possibility. What else has been misrepresented?
    History has always been distorted. I grew up thinking Christopher Columbus was some kind of hero that discovered the new world, but in reality he wasn't even close to that. The modern map is biased to overemphasize the size of Europe and the US and shrink the size of Africa. Don't get me started on the native americans' portrayal. History always has and always will be written for the victor.

    Posted via Android Central App
    11-03-2013 01:15 PM
  3. JW4VZW's Avatar
    I grew up thinking Christopher Columbus was some kind of hero that discovered the new world, but in reality he wasn't even close to that.
    Are you talking about the fact that he thought he reached India? I am just curious, no disrespect.
    11-03-2013 01:44 PM
  4. gamefreak715's Avatar
    Are you talking about the fact that he thought he reached India? I am just curious, no disrespect.
    We were always led to believe he landed on the east coast but really he landed in south america, decimated an indigenous population and was the father of the transatlantic slave trade. Not to mention he wasn't even first to the new world. Vikings were there over 700 years before him. The Oatmeal did a great webstrip on this recently. He was a bad dude. http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day

    Posted via Android Central App
    11-03-2013 02:20 PM
  5. NoYankees44's Avatar
    History has always been distorted. I grew up thinking Christopher Columbus was some kind of hero that discovered the new world, but in reality he wasn't even close to that. The modern map is biased to overemphasize the size of Europe and the US and shrink the size of Africa. Don't get me started on the native americans' portrayal. History always has and always will be written for the victor.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Misrepresented might have been a poor word choice there. It is one thing to paint a person in a disingenuous light because that can be a matter of opinion and conflicting evidence, it is another thing to misquote a document that is still in its original form.
    11-03-2013 02:32 PM
  6. LEMONGRAB's Avatar
    Sleep with gun within arms reach. Also keep a single barrel shotgun with a loaded shell on the wall in the living room as a decoy, it has no firing pin nor does the shell have any powder in it just weight for a decoy. Its got a switch hidden in the arm that holds it. Wired straight to a speaker in my headboard along with all the other security sensors in my home. But if you get past my two pitbulls hell I might give you a gun for free. But fyi they are trained to not eat or drink anything that isn't fed by me. Learned the hard way when I went to see family and had to return because they wouldn't eat or drink for two days. Now I have an automatic food/water feeder that they eat from. In my kitchen. A little paranoid you say? Not when all that saves mine and my familys life one day. God forbid it would ever be needed, but better safe than sorry. Sorry for the rant.

    This thread is in unacceptable condition; UNACCEPTABLE....
    SSgS|||_2_DroidCentral
    11-03-2013 02:41 PM
  7. llamabreath's Avatar
    Sleep with gun within arms reach. Also keep a single barrel shotgun with a loaded shell on the wall in the living room as a decoy, it has no firing pin nor does the shell have any powder in it just weight for a decoy. Its got a switch hidden in the arm that holds it. Wired straight to a speaker in my headboard along with all the other security sensors in my home. But if you get past my two pitbulls hell I might give you a gun for free. But fyi they are trained to not eat or drink anything that isn't fed by me. Learned the hard way when I went to see family and had to return because they wouldn't eat or drink for two days. Now I have an automatic food/water feeder that they eat from. In my kitchen. A little paranoid you say? Not when all that saves mine and my familys life one day. God forbid it would ever be needed, but better safe than sorry. Sorry for the rant.
    rant, shmant
    I liked it.


    Signatures, shmignatures...
    11-03-2013 02:58 PM
  8. JW4VZW's Avatar
    We were always led to believe he landed on the east coast but really he landed in south america, decimated an indigenous population and was the father of the transatlantic slave trade. Not to mention he wasn't even first to the new world. Vikings were there over 700 years before him. The Oatmeal did a great webstrip on this recently. He was a bad dude. Christopher Columbus was awful (but this other guy was not) - The Oatmeal

    Posted via Android Central App
    Interesting, thanks. I did know that the Vikings beat him to North America, and somewhere I heard that the Jews did as well. I did not know that he started the transatlantic slave trade, but always was taught that it was the Dutch. Interesting webstrip though. I am not sure of the accuracy, but good nonetheless.
    11-03-2013 03:47 PM
  9. llamabreath's Avatar
    The Vikings didn't reach Minnesota until 1961, which is relatively recently.


    Signatures, shmignatures...
    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    11-03-2013 03:54 PM
  10. JW4VZW's Avatar
    The Vikings didn't reach Minnesota until 1961, which is relatively recently.


    •• Signatures, shmignatures...
    Only you, llamabreath!
    11-03-2013 04:26 PM
  11. llamabreath's Avatar
    Only you, llamabreath!
    lol

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    11-03-2013 04:30 PM
  12. palandri's Avatar
    The Vikings didn't reach Minnesota until 1961, which is relatively recently.


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    The same year the Senators arrived, and they were lead by a powerful Mormon and it wasn't Mitt Romney.
    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    11-03-2013 04:49 PM
  13. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Sleep with gun within arms reach. Also keep a single barrel shotgun with a loaded shell on the wall in the living room as a decoy, it has no firing pin nor does the shell have any powder in it just weight for a decoy. Its got a switch hidden in the arm that holds it. Wired straight to a speaker in my headboard along with all the other security sensors in my home. But if you get past my two pitbulls hell I might give you a gun for free. But fyi they are trained to not eat or drink anything that isn't fed by me. Learned the hard way when I went to see family and had to return because they wouldn't eat or drink for two days. Now I have an automatic food/water feeder that they eat from. In my kitchen. A little paranoid you say? Not when all that saves mine and my familys life one day. God forbid it would ever be needed, but better safe than sorry. Sorry for the rant.

    This thread is in unacceptable condition; UNACCEPTABLE....
    SSgS|||_2_DroidCentral
    I have my Glock in my nightstand drawer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    lol

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    Sometimes your posts make me laugh, especially after a bad day at work.
    11-04-2013 04:43 PM
  14. llamabreath's Avatar
    Sometimes your posts make me laugh, especially after a bad day at work.
    I accept PayPal

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    11-04-2013 04:46 PM
  15. Scott7217's Avatar
    Wait Until You See How a High School Textbook Summarizes the Rights Guaranteed in the Second Amendment | TheBlaze.com

    Text book: "the people have the right to keep and bear arms in a state militia"

    Actual written 2nd amendment: " A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. "

    For starters, the word "state" is used with 2 completely different meanings. Further, the misquote implies that the amendment only allows arms in a militia, which is not what is stated in the amendment.
    You bring up an interesting observation. How would you rephrase the summary of the Second Amendment? Can you think of a sentence that is better than the one presented by the history book's author without resorting to merely repeating the Second Amendment word for word?
    11-04-2013 10:49 PM
  16. Fairclough's Avatar
    People in a regulated Miltilia to reach a free state has the right to bear arms?
    11-05-2013 04:43 AM
  17. plumbrich's Avatar
    The 2nd amendment being one very clear sentence being replace with another sentence that does not represent the original sentence makes no sense at all.

    If the founding fathers would have known in 1791 that comprehension skill levels would degrade in the future they may have farther indulged in the original writing of the 2nd amendment. Sadly comprehension skills had degraded so bad that in 2008 it had to go before the supreme court so they could translate "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. " that those words in the 2nd amendment protects an individual right to possess and carry firearms.

    Having a debate on what " A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. " means does speak volumes about our education system.
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    11-05-2013 05:00 AM
  18. Aquila's Avatar
    You bring up an interesting observation. How would you rephrase the summary of the Second Amendment? Can you think of a sentence that is better than the one presented by the history book's author without resorting to merely repeating the Second Amendment word for word?
    Warning: Historical Context Incoming

    There are two primary purposes to the 2nd Amendment, one side or the other likes to ignore at least one of them most of the time.

    1st: The Federal Government was not allowed to have an Army at the beginning, only a Navy. The Militia was meant to repel invaders on land, put down insurrections, etc. and it was basically everyone of a working age that could be called upon. Militias were funded and equipped by the Federal Government (Congress), but primarily run by the States. It was very common for men to bring their own weapons when called upon, and thus it would be stupid to take those weapons.

    2nd: One of the big gripes (there were dozens) against England was that it attempted to disarm the subjects in the Colonies. Obviously a disarmed and occupied Colony is easier to control. This was a clear threat to their ability to fashion their own lives, a threat to their liberty and the founders argued relentlessly about whether or not to guarantee this Right in the Constitution, or as an Amendment and it was a pretty epic argument. Essentially, our government was formed for the express purposes of serving the people in the things only government can and ought to handle. A government that overstepped these bounds was meant to be pushed back and the People should always have control. Given the vast sums of money that the government has access to, and the power to hire armies, it was clear that Citizens must be able to resist being once again disarmed and occupied. At the time, without any real police forces, etc, the main protection a family had was in arming themselves.

    Insert Opinions Here:

    The 1st half was eliminated as a necessity when two things happened: 1. Congress made it legal to have a standing Army, even in peace time. 2. The joint-command Militias were consolidated as what became the National Guard for each state. Later these would be more or less given to the Federal Government as well. We have no need for the Militia part of the argument in 2013. That part is over.

    The 2nd half is the one we spend all of our effort debating, because many pieces of it are completely unnecessary now, the responsibility and ability to utilize personal protection effectively has been given away and barely anything remains. However, the original threat, that of being disarmed and occupied, is still a pretty valid concern, at least in an absolute context. In a relative context, we're already disarmed and occupied by our military, as we as civilians have nothing that could seriously harm the US military should they for some reason turn on the People. We don't have massive numbers of drones, we don't have an Air Force, we don't have a Navy, we don't have fleets of Tanks, we don't have basically any of the things used to fight a modern war. Anyone who thinks that pistols and semi-auto rifles would be anything more than the buzzing of a fly is deluded. The entire concept of an armed insurrection is predicated upon the assumption that US Soldiers would view any orders to repel armed insurrection as unconstitutional and that a vast majority of soldiers would stand down. I think we've seen enough examples both in history, and in the US during last couple of decades to understand that is simply not true.

    Conclusion:

    Thus the entire argument becomes not about Militias or repelling Tyranny, but solely about the modern ability and right of a person to defend themselves, their property, their loved ones and the innocent during the gap of time between the need to act and the arrival of an appropriate official response, and then the culpability of that individual in any cases of poor judgement, etc. Following the validation of that Right, the obvious follow up questions are the means and methods that ought to lawfully be available to a civilian in order to conduct that business. In my opinion, these questions have nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment, nor with the argument surrounding it at the time of the adoption of the amendment and require a completely new, modern debate and ultimately a new and modern amendment to the Constitution.
    gamefreak715 likes this.
    11-05-2013 05:11 AM
  19. bradleyem's Avatar
    Well said NothingIsTrue.

    The Second Amendment was intended to protect the People against a tyrannical government, not necessarily to protect an individual's right to self defense. In context, the entire document was for that purpose...newly forming America was fighting for their rights against a monarchy, and the founding fathers wanted to ensure that the same thing would not happen again.

    The right to defend one's life, family, and property, especially by any specific means (arms), although glaringly obvious is not spelled out as such. Unfortunately, creating a new amendment to address this will never happen. At least not with the current government. If they cannot pass a budget, or agree on a health plan, then something as controversial and polar as this will never be agreed upon. Especially with people within our own government and the U.N. trying to get more control and abolish guns for the purpose that the Second Amendment DOES apply to.

    Realistically, when it comes right down to it, if the SHTF and martial law is in effect, then rules, laws, rights, and The Constitution will go right out the window. It will be all about protecting one's own ***.

    As for me, I have the right to protect my life, the lives of my family, and my property. To do so, I will use whatever means necessary, and I will use whatever tool that allows me to do so effectively. Day to day, that means that I carry a gun, I constantly train how to use it, and more importantly, I am aware of my surroundings and attempt to avoid ever being in a situation where I would need to resort to deadly force. The most likely threat that I would encounter would be a criminal with a gun, so this puts me on even ground. If there is ever an uprising, then maybe I will need to learn to drive a tank or fly a helicopter so that I can "acquire" one of those to protect my family...If so, then so be it.





    Sent from my XT926 using Tapatalk
    11-05-2013 07:44 AM
  20. Fairclough's Avatar
    On a gun note. New thread not required
    New person has been awarded our highest honour of bravery, victoria cross.first person in 40 years to receive one (last person moved 40 injured soldiers)

    Under an ambush being attacked by an RPG and multiple machine guns, a soldier used himself as a human decoy to allow other injured soldiers and a translator to escape.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    11-06-2013 05:22 AM
  21. JW4VZW's Avatar
    I accept PayPal

    •• Signatures, shmignatures...
    I am broke or I would donate to you!
    11-06-2013 04:32 PM
  22. JW4VZW's Avatar
    On a gun note. New thread not required
    New person has been awarded our highest honour of bravery, victoria cross.first person in 40 years to receive one (last person moved 40 injured soldiers)

    Under an ambush being attacked by an RPG and multiple machine guns, a soldier used himself as a human decoy to allow other injured soldiers and a translator to escape.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    The Victoria Cross is the highest Australian medal for bravery, correct?
    11-06-2013 04:39 PM
  23. llamabreath's Avatar
    I am broke or I would donate to you!
    excuses, excuses :banghead:

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    11-06-2013 05:56 PM
  24. JW4VZW's Avatar
    excuses, excuses :banghead:

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    I wish I was making excuses. I just had to replace all four tires on my car, which cost a pretty penny.
    11-06-2013 06:41 PM
  25. llamabreath's Avatar
    I wish I was making excuses. I just had to replace all four tires on my car, which cost a pretty penny.
    Yep, just paid $540 to get new tires on my wife's car last week.

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    11-06-2013 06:50 PM
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