07-14-2014 07:46 AM
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  1. palandri's Avatar
    My state allows open carry with no permit. Many do....
    I beg to differ with, "many do". I think you mentioned you were from Ohio? If that is correct, I have friends in Toledo, Strongsville and Cincinnati and I have never seen anyone open carry in those areas.


    ...In order to promote and maintain a civil society, you discourage violent interactions. The only way to truly discourage these interactions is by putting everyone on an equal playing field. If everyone carried out in public, no one generally would be able to force others to do anything. As it stands right now, a smaller/elderly/physically challenged person can be forced by a large trained man to do whatever he wants. Period. If both had a pistol, they would be both on equal playing fields and his forcing would be better kept in check.
    To me that argument is flawed. The criminal has the element of surprise. Once a gun is pointed in your face it's too late. Go for your gun and you're dead.
    11-09-2013 09:02 AM
  2. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I beg to differ with, "many do". I think you mentioned you were from Ohio? If that is correct, I have friends in Toledo, Strongsville and Cincinnati and I have never seen anyone open carry in those areas.




    To me that argument is flawed. The criminal has the element of surprise. Once a gun is pointed in your face it's too late. Go for your gun and you're dead.
    That flaw is present in any related argument. Both for and against guns. Until the day that we all live in bubbles and have no physical interaction, that flaw will be present in any sort of force scenario. Both armed and unarmed.
    11-09-2013 09:17 AM
  3. palandri's Avatar
    That flaw is present in any related argument. Both for and against guns. Until the day that we all live in bubbles and have no physical interaction, that flaw will be present in any sort of force scenario. Both armed and unarmed.
    I think you're on to something! Bubble living!

    11-09-2013 09:34 AM
  4. plumbrich's Avatar
    Been CC for 20 plus years, so long it's no different than putting my wallet in each morning and 99% of the people I know and interact with don't know I carry.

    The example of someone surprising you by putting a gun in your face has plenty of examples. Plenty of dashboard police video of this happening and first person accounts of victims. Don't see how having a concealed gun increases your chances of this happening.

    Crime and murder is well recorded before firearms and will continue with or without firearms.

    In the 1860's the lever action repeating rifle appeared and citizen bought them in droves while the military infantryman still had his single shot. One U.S. citizen had in his hand the equivalent of 7 U.S. soldier. Today's infantry soldier has an M4 with a standard 30 round magazine. Today to equal an 1860's civilian one would need a full auto with a 210 round magazine.

    My point being even though back then the average citizen had at his disposal access to firepower 7 times that of a average soldier we didn't have the gun violence we have today. Also during that time anyone could purchase a firearm like this if they had the funds including a 12 year old. They could also have it with them anywhere they wanted. So people having guns isn't the problem. Until we as a society are willing to actually confront the real problem causing the violence we are going to continue to have violence on a high level. If all guns somehow disappeared from the earth we would still be having this same debate it would just being about banning whatever object is popular for killing at the time.

    As for my families well being I choose to protect them with the best weapons available which are firearms and will continue to do so. My mother being in her 70's I would not want to have her defending against an attacker or home invader with a tazer when the original point and click device will do much better.
    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    11-09-2013 09:42 AM
  5. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Been CC for 20 plus years, so long it's no different than putting my wallet in each morning and 99% of the people I know and interact with don't know I carry.

    The example of someone surprising you by putting a gun in your face has plenty of examples. Plenty of dashboard police video of this happening and first person accounts of victims. Don't see how having a concealed gun increases your chances of this happening.

    Crime and murder is well recorded before firearms and will continue with or without firearms.

    In the 1860's the lever action repeating rifle appeared and citizen bought them in droves while the military infantryman still had his single shot. One U.S. citizen had in his hand the equivalent of 7 U.S. soldier. Today's infantry soldier has an M4 with a standard 30 round magazine. Today to equal an 1860's civilian one would need a full auto with a 210 round magazine.

    My point being even though back then the average citizen had at his disposal access to firepower 7 times that of a average soldier we didn't have the gun violence we have today. Also during that time anyone could purchase a firearm like this if they had the funds including a 12 year old. They could also have it with them anywhere they wanted. So people having guns isn't the problem. Until we as a society are willing to actually confront the real problem causing the violence we are going to continue to have violence on a high level. If all guns somehow disappeared from the earth we would still be having this same debate it would just being about banning whatever object is popular for killing at the time.

    As for my families well being I choose to protect them with the best weapons available which are firearms and will continue to do so. My mother being in her 70's I would not want to have her defending against an attacker or home invader with a tazer when the original point and click device will do much better.
    This needs repeating... Several times...

    Until the societal issues are addressed, nothing will actually change. You will just deflect the issues.
    11-09-2013 09:49 AM
  6. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Good luck with that. Make a sudden move to your waist, your arm pit or your leg in a situation like that and see what happens.



    That makes sense. The criminal is going to take the easier target. Now lets say both stores arm themselves, are the criminal going to go elsewhere? Would personal muggings go up instead? If they continue robbing convenience stores, the criminal still has the element of surprise and would probably be a little more jumpy if the store is armed.
    At any rate, if I'm being assaulted I want protection. If the other guy has a gun, I'm not goint to be resorted to using a pocket knife or a bat. Never bring a knife to a gun fight. I'm not going to be that guy. Lets say no guns allowed anywhere. The criminal has a gun and then knows you don't. Both convenience stores robbery rates just went up.

    Sent from a device that supports the proposed 28th amendment
    bigdaddytee and qxr like this.
    11-09-2013 10:33 AM
  7. Scott7217's Avatar
    y'all need to come to ky. I can open carry with no permit at all. I do as at all times. There are a few places I can't but noy many.
    Which places don't allow open carry in Kentucky?
    11-09-2013 11:39 AM
  8. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Which places don't allow open carry in Kentucky?
    I don't know about laws specific to Kentucky, but any federal property is restricted regardless of state laws. Most states protect private property as well. And private businesses can restrict carry, but it must be clearly posted at all entrances.

    In both Tennessee and Alabama, you can now leave a weapon in your car at your place of work regardless of your work's policy. (excluding federal property of course)
    qxr likes this.
    11-09-2013 11:48 AM
  9. newbroot83's Avatar
    If you go to any place that serves alcohol and seats more than I believe 28 ppl you cannot have a round in the chamber. As stated above federal buildings are off limits and some smaller businesses. But I've never had anyone jump me for carrying. I've been shooting since I was a kid. Hust about since I could walk. I was with the infantry Marines as a combat corpsman. I'm pretty handy with just about any firearm. And not too shabby with a knife.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    qxr likes this.
    11-09-2013 12:31 PM
  10. palandri's Avatar
    ....I was with the infantry Marines as a combat corpsman.....
    Which reminds me. Sorry to go off topic, but over at WPC, a sister site to Android Central and part of Mobile Nations, we started a Veterans thread in our off topic area. If any of you Veterans have a few pictures you would like to share in our thread, it would be greatly appreciated!

    Military personnel...grab a can of night vision and line up with your BA eleven-hundred novembers - Windows Phone Central Forums
    cdmjlt369 and qxr like this.
    11-09-2013 01:09 PM
  11. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Obama Care? MORE LIKE OBAMA SCARE!

    Sent from my HTC Xperia S4
    I have heard that somewhere else actually. It is pretty accurate.
    qxr likes this.
    11-09-2013 04:09 PM
  12. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Guns don't kill people. People kill people. It doesn't matter if you take away guns, I can still walk into school with a knife and kill as many people as I want, just like a gun. There is no perfect society. There will always be threats. About 3 weeks ago my Government teacher said, out of the 270days that have passed 260 of them have involved a shooting of more than 4 people. You can't take away guns, only keep them away from the wrong people which is something America is failing to do because we don't have the money to do psychiatric testing, yet we have the money to spend 4 billion dollars on new ships and 4 billion on nuclear weapons we'll never use

    Sent from Samsung Z1 GPE on T-Mobile
    Precisely, it is easier to blame the gun than the person behind the gun. I somewhat agree with you about not having the money to do psychiatric testing. We can spend money on every other medication, but can not spend money on that type of medication.
    11-09-2013 04:15 PM
  13. alexlam24's Avatar
    I have heard that somewhere else actually. It is pretty accurate.
    I watch source fed on YouTube

    Sent from Samsung Z1 GPE on T-Mobile
    11-09-2013 07:17 PM
  14. qxr's Avatar
    Precisely, it is easier to blame the gun than the person behind the gun. I somewhat agree with you about not having the money to do psychiatric testing. We can spend money on every other medication, but can not spend money on that type of medication.
    Look to the aclu for blocking the law in ct that would have allowed the shooter to have been forcibly committed until he was fully evaluated. His mother was trying but the aclu didn't accept any blame only guns.
    Look at az. That school knew he was a danger. They even requested police presence to deliver the school's letter of suspension. That had a duty to inform no different than we must report suspected child abuse. Did the school change any policies after the Tucson Shooting? No we just blame guns.
    We need accountability by those professions who have a duty but slink back in to the shadows when bad things happen pointing their fingers at guns.
    We have medications for schizophrenics but are not always able to get the patient to comply and are demonized when we want to force it.
    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    11-09-2013 07:33 PM
  15. alexlam24's Avatar
    Gun free zone right? http://rt.com/usa/houston-texas-mass-shooting-492/

    Sent from Samsung Z1 GPE on T-Mobile
    11-10-2013 01:22 AM
  16. Aquila's Avatar
    Gun free zone right? http://rt.com/usa/houston-texas-mass-shooting-492/

    Sent from Samsung Z1 GPE on T-Mobile
    Not sure I'm following. The street mentioned in the article is only about 4 blocks long and has nothing but houses on it except one corner which is a church. There are no schools or federal buildings obvious. Is this a gun free zone? It doesn't seem to say that anywhere that I've seen.

    Also, not sure if this is related or not to this: Rescue teams sharpen skills with mock disaster drills | wfaa.com Dallas - Fort Worth, but the people in the comments seem to think that it is.
    11-10-2013 02:00 AM
  17. alexlam24's Avatar
    I didn't bother reading the article because my phone takes forever to load up my browser so forgive me.

    Sent from Samsung Z1 GPE on T-Mobile
    11-10-2013 02:08 AM
  18. Aquila's Avatar
    I didn't bother reading the article because my phone takes forever to load up my browser so forgive me.

    Sent from Samsung Z1 GPE on T-Mobile
    It's okay, the RT article was two sentences. Summary: There was a mass shooting in northwest Houston, TX with between 5-8 casualties, varying by media reports. It happened at Enchanted Creek Drive in Harris County according to a sheriff's report.

    The 2nd one said that around 16 counties were doing drills, including active shooter drills, across northern TX on Saturday, however it generally speaks about D/FW, which is about 250 miles away with a lot more than 16 counties in between... so the connection there may not be real. Houston isn't exactly northern Texas to anyone except dust kickers in Laredo. The "false flag" comments seem to be trying to connect Dallas events to Houston events, forgetting that there is more distance between them than the width of many states.

    Edit: RT revised their article to indicate 2 fatalties and 16 injuries. The shooting took place at a party in someone's private home. They are searching for two suspects.
    11-10-2013 02:17 AM
  19. Scott7217's Avatar
    I don't know about laws specific to Kentucky, but any federal property is restricted regardless of state laws. Most states protect private property as well. And private businesses can restrict carry, but it must be clearly posted at all entrances.
    Does restricting open carry violate the Second Amendment?
    11-11-2013 06:15 PM
  20. Scott7217's Avatar
    Are there other rights that should be added to the Constitution? For example, some people believe we should have the right to privacy. Are there other rights we should add?
    11-11-2013 06:32 PM
  21. The Hustleman's Avatar
    I agree with the right to privacy.
    11-11-2013 06:47 PM
  22. Aquila's Avatar
    That's more or less what is protected by prohibiting unreasonable search and seizure. I'd love to see it become much more explicit in the protections and prohibitions against governments and their agents, etc's ability to retain any data not relevant to a specific crime and collected with a warrant expressly tailored for that specific bit of data, evidence, etc.
    palandri likes this.
    11-11-2013 06:49 PM
  23. Scott7217's Avatar
    I agree with the right to privacy.
    How far should the right to privacy go? For example, would it be illegal for someone to look through your trash, or do you lose the right to privacy merely by putting your trash outside?
    11-11-2013 08:32 PM
  24. Aquila's Avatar
    How far should the right to privacy go? For example, would it be illegal for someone to look through your trash, or do you lose the right to privacy merely by putting your trash outside?

    As in trespassing on your property?

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    11-11-2013 08:36 PM
  25. Scott7217's Avatar
    As in trespassing on your property?
    I'm thinking more like the garbage man handing your trash to someone else after it has left your property.
    11-11-2013 08:43 PM
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