07-14-2014 07:46 AM
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  1. bradleyem's Avatar
    You know stores could technically say its a breach of contract if they caught breaking store policy if its clearly displayed on entry as your would think it would be a term or conditions of entry.

    Contracts do not have to be often written or agreed upon. E.g. when you buy a bus ticket you are agreeing in a contract to following their terms and conditions really without much thought, similar to entering a store.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    And that is the difference between a rule and a law. A business can post a sign stating that they do not allow guns in their store. If you ignore it, you are breaking a store policy. The store can ask you to leave. If you refuse to leave, then you can be charged with trespassing (a law). Some states can also take away your CCW permit, but I have never seen that happen.

    For the most part, "No Gun" signs are a CYA for the stores. If someone had a Negligent Discharge, or other accident, it absolves the store of liability. It also satisfies the blithering ravings of old women who would throw a hissy fit at the mere sight of a gun on someone. But, you can guarantee that if a criminal came in with a gun and started shooting innocent people, they would be thankful if a legal gun owner was able to stop them. By the time the police arrive the incident would be over either way. And even if the police did show up and confront the shooter, there is no guarantee that innocent victims wouldn't be caught in the crossfire. Most officers do not train with their weapons unless it's time to qualify, and there have been many incidents of victims being hit by friendly fire.

    Sent from my XT926 using Tapatalk
    cdmjlt369 and qxr like this.
    11-26-2013 07:45 AM
  2. bradleyem's Avatar
    Many malls around here do not have the required "No Gun" signs at the entrances. They do have a "code of conduct" sign with the mall rules in very small print, and "no weapons" is included on those rules. Those signs carry even less weight than the legally required signs. You can basically ignore them.

    Some businesses go as far as to say that you cannot have a weapon on the property, even in your vehicle. This is a blatant disregard of Ohio Castle Doctrine, which treats your vehicle as if it is your home when it comes to self protection. These signs are definitely ignored.

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    cdmjlt369 and qxr like this.
    11-26-2013 07:52 AM
  3. stalemate1's Avatar
    Come to think of it, if guns are allowed then what's to stop them legalizing chemical weapons ? It will just take a few bribes.
    11-27-2013 12:08 PM
  4. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Come to think of it, if guns are allowed then what's to stop them legalizing chemical weapons ? It will just take a few bribes.
    What?
    qxr likes this.
    11-27-2013 01:00 PM
  5. bradleyem's Avatar
    Come to think of it, if guns are allowed then what's to stop them legalizing chemical weapons ? It will just take a few bribes.
    Wow...what alternate reality are you from again?

    Fyi, there is no law against owning a rocket launcher, grenades, or nuclear weapons...when was the last time that one of those was used in a home invasion?



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    11-27-2013 10:53 PM
  6. palandri's Avatar
    ...Fyi, there is no law against owning a rocket launcher, grenades, or nuclear weapons..
    Where did you read or hear that?
    Fairclough likes this.
    11-27-2013 11:23 PM
  7. Fairclough's Avatar
    Right because governments totally want psychological damaged people not only have access to semi / automatic weapons but rocket propelled grenade launchers, nuclear weapons etc to start a new massacre.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    palandri likes this.
    11-28-2013 06:52 AM
  8. bradleyem's Avatar
    Right because governments totally want psychological damaged people not only have access to semi / automatic weapons but rocket propelled grenade launchers, nuclear weapons etc to start a new massacre.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    And, you are still missing the point.

    1. It matters not what GOVERNMENTS want. The point of the Second Amendment is to protect The People from tyrannical government.

    2. Just because something is illegal, doesn't mean that criminals, who by definition, ignore the law, will not do it. And if criminals have access to weapons, then law abiding citizens should have access to the same, if not better weapons to protect themselves. If there were no such thing as firearms, that would be great, but this is the real world. And even if firearms were never invented, if someone wants to harm or kill another person, they will find a way. It's a simple concept...concentrate on the person committing the act, not the tool. When I was growing up (and I'm not that old), we played with toy guns, we were taught to shoot, and respect real guns, and there weren't any mass shootings. PEOPLE are not taught respect for others and for human life...they are brought up to get whatever they can for as little effort possible and with a huge sense of ENTITLEMENT.

    3. If the "government" is so concerned about "psychological damaged people", then maybe they should put more effort into helping them. And maybe parents should actually bring their kids up properly to have respect for others. And maybe the criminal justice system shouldn't be such a joke, with criminals having more rights than victims.

    Of course, I don't expect you to agree with these ideas, or even understand them. Why face facts when you can live in a perfect dream world :-/



    Sent from my XT926 using Tapatalk
    11-28-2013 12:09 PM
  9. qxr's Avatar
    Right because governments totally want psychological damaged people not only have access to semi / automatic weapons but rocket propelled grenade launchers, nuclear weapons etc to start a new massacre.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    Have a Happy Thanksgiving from the folks in America. Yes, I know it is our holiday, just wishing everyone health and gratitude for our lives and freedom.


    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    11-28-2013 12:11 PM
  10. bradleyem's Avatar
    Where did you read or hear that?
    You can pretty much own anything, IF you are willing to pay the government for the privilege of doing so:

    http://xdind.com/yes-you-can-legally...nade-launcher/

    As far as a nuclear bomb, I'm not aware of any law on the books preventing it. Probably because one has never been used other than in war, and obtaining the materials to make one is nearly impossible.

    But again, (simple concept) improvised weapons are just as, if not more effective, and criminals do not obey laws anyway.

    Sent from my XT926 using Tapatalk
    11-28-2013 12:20 PM
  11. Fairclough's Avatar
    Right... Entitlements to nuclear weapons and RPG's.

    Jesus I'm sure they thought of that when they wrote the constitution.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    palandri and gamefreak715 like this.
    11-28-2013 06:32 PM
  12. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Right... Entitlements to nuclear weapons and RPG's.

    Jesus I'm sure they thought of that when they wrote the constitution.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    I don't think our founders had entitlements of any kind in mind when drafting our Constitution.

    Sent from a device that supports the proposed 28th amendment
    qxr likes this.
    11-28-2013 09:02 PM
  13. xaotikdesigns's Avatar
    Where did you read or hear that?
    There are laws against the owning of certain materials though. Radioactive materials and explosives have laws regarding the amounts that can be stored and how exactly you can store them

    As long as you are located in a city where the ownership of explosives is legal, under Title II of the National Firearms Act, you can purchase a Destructive Device (large bore firearms, explosives, and other such weapons). Nuclear weapons are generally illegal as nuclear materials are typically banned as a safety hazard. Many large cities also have ordinances as to how explosive can be stored, or require separate permits for storing explosives. You may be able to purchase the launcher, but may be prohibitted from purchasing the ammunition for it based on where you live.

    To purchase one, you have to pay for a tax stamp, which is $200 per destructive device, as well as pass a more thorough federal background check. When talking about RPGs, each grenade, and the launcher is a separate device, and each will require their own stamp. You can also purchase a grenade launcher with a bore smaller than 40MM for use as a line thrower or flare gun without paying the tax as they would not be considered a destructive device. However, if purchased under that exception, and you later purchase a actual grenade for it, the exception would go away, and you would be breaking the law as your previously legal device is now considered a destructive device.
    qxr likes this.
    11-28-2013 10:06 PM
  14. stalemate1's Avatar
    Don't know anything about guns?


    It's like that all over.

    People are so anti gun yet don't know the first thing about them


    Examples?


    Calling a magazine a "clip" clips are magazines are 2 different things

    Saying things like "did you know there are online gun shops that you can buy a gun from with no background check and have it shipped to your door?" um no, that's super illegal

    Calling a 30 round magazine on an AR-15 a "high capacity" magazine. Um, 30 rounds on an AR is NORMAL/standard capacity. A high capacity magazine is a magazine with a higher capacity than what originally comes with it

    Saying dumb things like "people don't need guns to protect themselves" when crime statistics in places like dc, Chicago, even Atlanta say otherwise. How is disarming the good guy that did go through the background checks, got his permit, his fingerprints on record with the FBI going to protect him from that thug on the streets that's willing to kill? Not to mention ALL the major anti gun politicians either have tons of armed security and/or carry permits themselves.


    Or those that think certain guns are more deadly because of COSMETIC FEATURES that don't affect lethality at all.

    Or those that support handgun bans when a shotgun will do so much more damage


    I honestly don't think someone in Congress should be allowed to vote on issues they know nothing about.

    Why is it that it's so rare to find people that know about guns that are anti gun?
    I respect your point of view, but why do anti gun people need to know about guns ?

    It's like saying people who are against chemical weapons never know anything about them. We all know they are bad news without having to know the chemical composition and molecule build up.
    11-29-2013 12:42 PM
  15. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Right... Entitlements to nuclear weapons and RPG's.

    Jesus I'm sure they thought of that when they wrote the constitution.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    Do you think that they were thinking of email privacy or freedom of speech on TV? No, but most people use the constitution to protect that

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    Live2ride883 likes this.
    11-29-2013 05:56 PM
  16. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I respect your point of view, but why do anti gun people need to know about guns ?

    It's like saying people who are against chemical weapons never know anything about them. We all know they are bad news without having to know the chemical composition and molecule build up.
    You can't debate a topic you know nothing about. If someone wants to blindly destroy something, no matter what it is or how "bad", they are a kind of stupid that I never want to deal with. The kind of person that will destroy this world and everyone on it. We are not talking about how to disassemble and reassemble guns. We are taking about people thinking that a pistol grip on a shotgun makes it magically more dangerous and that when you empty a magazine it is useless and thrown away.
    11-29-2013 07:26 PM
  17. Scott7217's Avatar
    You can't debate a topic you know nothing about.
    So let's say that two people, Person A and Person B, are debating this topic. Both know nothing about firearms.

    Person A says that civilians should not be allowed to own firearms. Can we say that Person A's statement is invalid because he knows nothing about firearms?

    Person B says that civilians should be permitted to own firearms. Given that Person B is just as clueless as Person A when it comes to firearms, can we also say Person B's statement is invalid as well?
    11-30-2013 03:33 AM
  18. Scott7217's Avatar
    I've wondered how eager a jury would be to convict a distraught parent who, in a grief driven temporary break from their senses, slaughtered the entire congregation of the Westboro "Baptist Church" in attendance of their child, the slain soldier.
    Well, let's say that this was an actual court case. Is excessive grief enough to justify killing someone? Using existing laws, can we provide a legal defense for the parent accused of killing members of the Westboro Baptist Church? Would the jury be forced to convict the parent of murder?
    11-30-2013 03:59 AM
  19. Aquila's Avatar
    Well, let's say that this was an actual court case. Is excessive grief enough to justify killing someone? Using existing laws, can we provide a legal defense for the parent accused of killing members of the Westboro Baptist Church? Would the jury be forced to convict the parent of murder?
    There are all kinds of defense strategies that could theoretically be applicable. Using an affirmative defense is always risky, but I'm not saying someone should plan something like that out, but rather that if it did happen, there may be a lot of potential jurors that don't agree with the prosecution. Without any facts other than the very loose hypothetical laid out in one sentence... I'm not sure I'd convict of anything, but certainly probably not more than manslaughter. It'd be legally and morally wrong to kill them, just as it's morally wrong for them to be there in the first place (though it is legal). As a parent it'd be very difficult to be unsympathetic, at the very least.
    11-30-2013 05:41 AM
  20. Aquila's Avatar
    So let's say that two people, Person A and Person B, are debating this topic. Both know nothing about firearms.

    Person A says that civilians should not be allowed to own firearms. Can we say that Person A's statement is invalid because he knows nothing about firearms?

    Person B says that civilians should be permitted to own firearms. Given that Person B is just as clueless as Person A when it comes to firearms, can we also say Person B's statement is invalid as well?
    Of course not. Both are opinions, and thus completely irrelevant to policy absent power to implement actions based on their opinions. Even if it were facts being debated, either could easily luck into guessing the right answer. It is true that I do not have to be a molecular physicist in order to support a ban on civilians (and most governments and companies, for that matter) owning enriched uranium. The consequences are so absurdly grotesque as to make it just silly to contemplate, whether I understand exactly how people can safely use it or not*.

    For many people the argument about firearms comes from that same perspective, although I would argue that the degree of consequence is blown way out of proportion and that some education on responsible ownership would help alleviate their fears. What will never help is the belligerent "come and take" arguments flung at them. Obviously, that's not a bridge towards common purpose and understanding, nor a respectful approach. It's a challenge and will be met with resistance. Common sense.

    If we want to have a risk vs reward conversation about civilian defense, both sides have a lot of growing up to do.... or the real risk is one fanatical side over-reacting in a winner take all power play that has disastrous potential results for both our liberty and safety. Wanting that is called "insane. "

    We can use more common sense and less insane in the world.


    *One or two buttons can literally kill us ALL, even if we're not involved in the battle. For example, if China"nukes" Pakistan, we, oceans away,will probably die too. It may take a little time (probably not long), but the possibility of a cascade is staggering.
    11-30-2013 06:00 AM
  21. Fairclough's Avatar
    Do you think that they were thinking of email privacy or freedom of speech on TV? No, but most people use the constitution to protect that

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    Your really comparing freedom of speech on TV with using a nuclear weapon or RPG to protect a states from over throwing the government?

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    11-30-2013 06:07 AM
  22. alexlam24's Avatar
    Remove all the guns you want, I can still get one off the black market. Our government is... I have no hope for america

    Sent from HTC Note Ultra Pro on T-Mobile
    11-30-2013 10:41 AM
  23. Fairclough's Avatar
    I'm sure the cost would make if unaffordable don't black market.

    E.g. drugs, studies showed that if it was legalised price would decrease by 80%
    However drugs are very inelastic

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    11-30-2013 06:48 PM
  24. gamefreak715's Avatar
    WBC is hardly a church. Their main purpose isn't to spread a message or hate. Sometimes even their messages conflict. They are there to elicit a reaction. Of which, if you've ever seen it, is recorded very carefully. So when or if someone retaliates (they want you to) they can sue the bejeebus out of you. Rinse. Repeat. They're just there to profit. Its sickening, but it's best to not react to them if you can avoid it.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Aquila and bigdaddytee like this.
    11-30-2013 10:54 PM
  25. qxr's Avatar
    Where do you think criminals get their guns? They do not legally purchase and register them, they are buying off other criminals.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    12-02-2013 02:10 PM
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