07-14-2014 07:46 AM
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  1. Ray694's Avatar
    Having an "adult conversation" about gun reform with a government that initiates a program to sell "assault rifles" to the mexican cartel (see drug dealers) and then loses track of them... Don't see that happening...

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    05-26-2014 09:27 AM
  2. SteveISU's Avatar
    There are obvious answers to me, but the paranoid sector of our society would see it as some sort of "Obama master plan to take over 'Murica". You go in to purchase a weapon. You fill out some paperwork based on the nature of the weapon you intend to buy. Assault rifle: "Please describe your reason for wanting to purchase this style of firearm. A) For hunting B) For personal use C) For business use D) For home protection E) To help ensure my Muslim non-US born President does not release his Muslim brotherhood against all that is good and decent in this country"

    Now I will admit to having interjected my own brand of sarcasm, but when applying for work, I've filled out some rather invasive questionnaires, thus I'm not sure why one should be immune from such questioning when it comes to gun ownership. All one needs to do is generate a set of questions designed to gauge why someone is wanting to purchase a certain firearm or high capacity clip. We don't even have to apply it to everything. A .38 special doesn't pose as big a threat as a high powered assault rifle so the questioning shouldn't be as intensive. But for some reason we can't even have a discussion on screenings. What strikes me as interesting about the discussion is some of the loudest screamers against any forms of gun law reform seem to exhibit a form of paranoia that borders on psychosis behavior, not exactly the kind of mental condition I think deserves a place at the table for discussions on such a matter. We might as well let the arsonist be in charge of the matches at a camp out.

    1. Anyone can lie
    2. A bullet is a bullet, regardless of what it comes out of. I can dump 6 magazines through my XDM .45acp in less than a minute and wipe out half a room of people. Have you ever seen a scary "military style rifle" and come to realize it's a .22LR for plinking targets. You can't judge a book by its cover. The vast majority of gang shootings in the city of Chicago are with .22, .25, and 9mm handguns, but the Police Superintendent when he rolls out his speech about gun control he's holding a AR-15. Point is both sides want to blow things out of proportion.
    05-27-2014 10:04 AM
  3. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I think it's too easy to get guns, which makes mass murder easier. Sad, but true, at this point nothing is going to change even if the majority of people want the change because the NRA has the money to stop it.

    The argument of protection from a rogue government, just doesn't make a lot of sense anymore. If we truly had a crazy rogue government, all the militias could stand there with their AR15 protecting their property, while a battleship 200 miles off the coast of the U.S. fires a cruise missile and turns the militias to dust... or they bring in a M1A2 Abrams tank. An AR15 is like a BB gun to a M1A2 Abrams tank ...or they bring in drones.

    Like i said, it's just too easy to get guns.
    So you would have us completely reliant on the government for all protection and then also trust that government would never ever do anything against its citizens? I am sorry, but history is not on your side.

    There will come a day when something terrible will happen. Maybe it wont be from our own government. Maybe it will be. Either way, we will need good people armed and ready to defend themselves and others from whatever tyrant presents itself. The military cannot be counted on for everything. If the powers that be are against the citizenry, then were will we turn? I guess we will just give up and mass slavery will commence uninhibited. Laws and documents are only as good as those that believe and follow them. Other wise they are just words on paper.

    Just because the citizens are hopelessly outmatched does not mean they should give up what little they have. To do so would be to bend over and proclaim "Have your way with me".
    05-27-2014 10:41 AM
  4. palandri's Avatar
    So you would have us completely reliant on the government for all protection and then also trust that government would never ever do anything against its citizens? I am sorry, but history is not on your side.

    There will come a day when something terrible will happen. Maybe it wont be from our own government. Maybe it will be. Either way, we will need good people armed and ready to defend themselves and others from whatever tyrant presents itself. The military cannot be counted on for everything. If the powers that be are against the citizenry, then were will we turn? I guess we will just give up and mass slavery will commence uninhibited. Laws and documents are only as good as those that believe and follow them. Other wise they are just words on paper.

    Just because the citizens are hopelessly outmatched does not mean they should give up what little they have. To do so would be to bend over and proclaim "Have your way with me".
    No, I am not saying that, it's the argument that doesn't make sense to me anymore. Every time I hear someone use it, I think of this picture I saw of a lone Somali pirate standing on a boat pointing an RPG at a Navy battleship, then that line from Forrest Gump comes to mind, "Stupid is as stupid does".

    I just don't think a crazy rogue government could control the military in a way that it's presented by the right. I just think of what I was taught in military and I have a hard time believing it could happen.

    Just my opinion.
    05-27-2014 11:16 AM
  5. SteveISU's Avatar
    So the guy in California had 3 handguns, a knife, and a BMW. Did damage with all three, which ones do you want to provide a psych screen before purchasing? Which ones do we regulate more? I like to blame my driver for shooting 86 on Saturday but I understand it's the Indian not the arrow.
    nolittdroid likes this.
    05-27-2014 12:48 PM
  6. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I just heard part of one of his rant videos where he said he was going to kill those girls for not throwing themselves at him, the "supreme gentleman." Counseling or not, those videos should have been reported and grounds for a search warrant and possible seizures of his guns pending an investigation. I believe at least one of them was, so starting to sound like the cops dropped the ball.

    Depending on what was said in the counseling sessions, his ability to obtain the license to get the guns is questionable. I'm wondering how much his pseudo celebrity status played into the "oversights" leading up to this shooting.
    05-27-2014 01:55 PM
  7. palandri's Avatar
    05-27-2014 02:28 PM
  8. anon8126715's Avatar
    1. Anyone can lie
    2. A bullet is a bullet, regardless of what it comes out of. I can dump 6 magazines through my XDM .45acp in less than a minute and wipe out half a room of people. Have you ever seen a scary "military style rifle" and come to realize it's a .22LR for plinking targets. You can't judge a book by its cover. The vast majority of gang shootings in the city of Chicago are with .22, .25, and 9mm handguns, but the Police Superintendent when he rolls out his speech about gun control he's holding a AR-15. Point is both sides want to blow things out of proportion.
    So you're ok with telling the families of these victims, "anyone can lie, just suck it up and move on", "your loved one died but you're blowing things out of proportion"? If not, then what would you tell them?



    I just heard part of one of his rant videos where he said he was going to kill those girls for not throwing themselves at him, the "supreme gentleman." Counseling or not, those videos should have been reported and grounds for a search warrant and possible seizures of his guns pending an investigation. I believe at least one of them was, so starting to sound like the cops dropped the ball.

    Depending on what was said in the counseling sessions, his ability to obtain the license to get the guns is questionable. I'm wondering how much his pseudo celebrity status played into the "oversights" leading up to this shooting.

    That's somewhat my perspective. Since we can't have the discussion about reasonable background checks, the other option we have left is to have knee-jerk reactions every time some person shows even the slightest malice. I personally would rather have my due process intact, but given we can't even have a discussion about rational background checks, I guess we will have to be hyper-sensitive to everything.
    palandri likes this.
    05-27-2014 02:32 PM
  9. SteveISU's Avatar
    So you're ok with telling the families of these victims, "anyone can lie, just suck it up and move on", "your loved one died but you're blowing things out of proportion"? If not, then what would you tell them?
    Do you think the victims blame the gun, the car, or the knife? Or all three equally?
    05-27-2014 03:16 PM
  10. anon8126715's Avatar
    Do you think the victims blame the gun, the car, or the knife? Or all three equally?
    Lets see, if I wanted to kill the first thought that comes to my mind is "I think I'll go to my local GM dealership, buy a car (one with one of those faulty ignition switches preferably), and give one to each of the girls that refused to allow me to terminate my virginity with them".

    My 2nd thought would then be, "You know I don't think think I'm patient enough nor have the resources to use a car (that REQUIRES ME TO GET A LICENSE AND REQUIRES THAT I REGISTER IT YEARLY) to carry out my devious plot. Instead I'll find something sharp, something that requires me to approach strange people (because that's EXACTLY what us social deviants like to do is approach strangers) and come within arms length of many people at the same time (it's too bad I can't just ask them to line up for me because as soon as I stab one, I'm sure the others won't just sit around waiting for me to stab them) to carry out my atrocities.

    And then my FINAL thought would be, "If only there was some sort of device that was created for the EXCLUSIVE purpose of killing, something that i could obtain with no fuss, without having to fill out mountains of paperwork (like was required of me when I bought that car), something that would be a little more instantaneous, that I could use to carry out my plan WITHOUT having to approach anyone. If only....."

    So to answer your question, no they should assign the most blame to the car, followed by blaming the knife, then maybe, just maybe assign some blame to the gun and the system that was put in place to inhibit purchasing guns with intent to take li.....oh right we can't have such a system in place because it inhibits a paranoid person's right to believe that their government is preoccupied with stealing their "freedoms" from them.....
    05-27-2014 04:31 PM
  11. SteveISU's Avatar
    Lets see, if I wanted to kill the first thought that comes to my mind is "I think I'll go to my local GM dealership, buy a car (one with one of those faulty ignition switches preferably), and give one to each of the girls that refused to allow me to terminate my virginity with them".

    My 2nd thought would then be, "You know I don't think think I'm patient enough nor have the resources to use a car (that REQUIRES ME TO GET A LICENSE AND REQUIRES THAT I REGISTER IT YEARLY) to carry out my devious plot. Instead I'll find something sharp, something that requires me to approach strange people (because that's EXACTLY what us social deviants like to do is approach strangers) and come within arms length of many people at the same time (it's too bad I can't just ask them to line up for me because as soon as I stab one, I'm sure the others won't just sit around waiting for me to stab them) to carry out my atrocities.

    And then my FINAL thought would be, "If only there was some sort of device that was created for the EXCLUSIVE purpose of killing, something that i could obtain with no fuss, without having to fill out mountains of paperwork (like was required of me when I bought that car), something that would be a little more instantaneous, that I could use to carry out my plan WITHOUT having to approach anyone. If only....."

    So to answer your question, no they should assign the most blame to the car, followed by blaming the knife, then maybe, just maybe assign some blame to the gun and the system that was put in place to inhibit purchasing guns with intent to take li.....oh right we can't have such a system in place because it inhibits a paranoid person's right to believe that their government is preoccupied with stealing their "freedoms" from them.....
    Your issue shouldn't be with either, it should be with the sham of a mental health system we have in place. A system that has been dismantled over the course of decades. Start there and then this nation can start having a serious conversation about who should be restricted in owning a gun. Someone who's ever been on a psych hold in their life, the last 5yrs, 10yrs, anyone who has ever taken Zoloft or any anti-depressent , all veterans with PTSD? There isn't a single gun owner in this nation that advocates for the right to own a gun for someone who's a danger to himself or others. The issue is what mental illnesses are we gonna restrict from gun ownership and can you ever really be cured of them to regain your 2nd amendment rights?

    And to be clear, he MURDRED 3 people with a hammer and knife and 3 were shot.
    05-27-2014 05:15 PM
  12. jdbii's Avatar
    If simply going to three counsellors was a red flag, don't you think that third counselor would have reported him?
    Apparently his mother had reported him twice recently, once to a counselor, who the counselor did report him to Mental Health Services. They in turn they reported him to the police. Elliot Rodger’s family tried to intervene before deadly rampage | Fox News
    It was just a total breakdown of the system. I am sure the kid just represented himself quite sane to the police each time they talked to him. The police are so accustomed to dealing with fringe and hardened people that a young polished man who represents himself with aplomb could easily be overlooked. One interesting side note is that the news reported that California has the strictest gun laws, but I don't know if that is true.
    05-27-2014 06:56 PM
  13. Mooncatt's Avatar
    One interesting side note is that the news reported that California has the strictest gun laws, but I don't know if that is true.
    I don't know about being the strictest, but I think it's safe to say it's up there. Hence why I put "oversights" in quotes in my last post. For a lapse like that in California, you'd almost have to have some sort of connections.
    05-27-2014 07:14 PM
  14. anon8126715's Avatar
    Your issue shouldn't be with either, it should be with the sham of a mental health system we have in place. A system that has been dismantled over the course of decades. Start there and then this nation can start having a serious conversation about who should be restricted in owning a gun. Someone who's ever been on a psych hold in their life, the last 5yrs, 10yrs, anyone who has ever taken Zoloft or any anti-depressent , all veterans with PTSD? There isn't a single gun owner in this nation that advocates for the right to own a gun for someone who's a danger to himself or others. The issue is what mental illnesses are we gonna restrict from gun ownership and can you ever really be cured of them to regain your 2nd amendment rights?

    And to be clear, he MURDRED 3 people with a hammer and knife and 3 were shot.
    If you actually think that he would've gone on his murderous rampage if all he had access to were a knife and a hammer, then I would have to agree with you, our mental health system is a joke...... How you feeling there big guy?!?!
    05-27-2014 07:58 PM
  15. anon8126715's Avatar
    I guess some people will say anything to become relevant again.... Joe The Plumber: 'Your Dead Kids Don't Trump My Constitutional Rights' To Have Guns
    05-28-2014 07:38 AM
  16. palandri's Avatar
    I guess some people will say anything to become relevant again.... Joe The Plumber: 'Your Dead Kids Don't Trump My Constitutional Rights' To Have Guns
    Let me tell you about the shoot out at the O.K. Corral, which we're living today: Gunfight at the O.K. Corral - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    05-28-2014 07:50 AM
  17. anon8126715's Avatar
    Let me tell you about the shoot out at the O.K. Corral, which we're living today: Gunfight at the O.K. Corral - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Please don't tell me that you were around back then too!
    palandri likes this.
    05-28-2014 07:57 AM
  18. palandri's Avatar
    Please don't tell me that you were around back then too!
    I hope not.
    05-28-2014 08:13 AM
  19. anon8126715's Avatar
    I hope not.
    lol, what happened to the "I was sent here" post? Was it either a pre-coffee post or was it post that revealed you're from the future but your post created some sort of "major paradox" in the future?

    What's mostly messed up is I'm trying to watch the Xmen Future Past movie while sleep deprived so everything's starting to bleed together. I guess I should take in Back to the Future, Timecop, Paycheck, and Hot Tub time machine to get the full effect.....
    05-28-2014 08:52 AM
  20. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Maybe I'm wrong and just can't think of any others, but guns seem to be the only thing that get blamed for things instead of the human that was operating them.

    I agree that our mental health system needs some work.

    Actually, the whole "buying a gun" system needs some work too.
    05-28-2014 06:16 PM
  21. Mooncatt's Avatar
    What's the one common denominator in all these mass murder cases? It's not guns. It's men. As far as I know, no women have committed these types of crimes in the U.S. I wonder how long it'll be until someone tries to say it's men that's the problem and that they should be outlawed.
    05-28-2014 07:07 PM
  22. palandri's Avatar
    What's the one common denominator in all these mass murder cases? ....
    Mental illness, no ifs, ands or buts.
    05-28-2014 07:12 PM
  23. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Mental illness, no ifs, ands or buts.
    I know, it was a joke.
    05-28-2014 07:39 PM
  24. Scott7217's Avatar
    Mental illness, no ifs, ands or buts.
    So, let's say the police capture a mass murderer, and a court-appointed psychiatrist determines that the murderer is mentally ill. Would that mean that capital punishment is off the table?

    As far as I know, we are not supposed to execute mentally ill people. Instead, we would sentence them to life without parole in a mental institution for treatment.
    05-29-2014 11:12 AM
  25. SteveISU's Avatar
    If you actually think that he would've gone on his murderous rampage if all he had access to were a knife and a hammer, then I would have to agree with you, our mental health system is a joke...... How you feeling there big guy?!?!
    Half his victims were killed with said hammer and knife. Are their deaths less tragic because they don't fit into the lefts hot button issue of guns? I know it's easy to skip that and the fact that he's nuts and just jump on the liberal bandwagon that this all boils down to the fact that guns are bad.
    05-29-2014 11:17 AM
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