07-14-2014 07:46 AM
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  1. palandri's Avatar
    So, let's say the police capture a mass murderer, and a court-appointed psychiatrist determines that the murderer is mentally ill. Would that mean that capital punishment is off the table?

    As far as I know, we are not supposed to execute mentally ill people. Instead, we would sentence them to life without parole in a mental institution for treatment.
    The trick is to catch mental illness early, but the right will tell you that we don't have the money to do that. The right would rather spend the money on bigger bombs and private prisons, they think we can't afford the ACA and a mini med plan that tops out at $2,000 a year is all you need.
    05-29-2014 11:49 AM
  2. SteveISU's Avatar
    The trick is to catch mental illness early, but the right will tell you that we don't have the money to do that. The right would rather spend the money on bigger bombs and private prisons, they think we can't afford the ACA and a mini med plan that tops out at $2,000 a year is all you need.

    I'd like to see some evidence that anyone on the right said we don't have the money to spend on mental health.
    05-29-2014 12:40 PM
  3. Mooncatt's Avatar
    The trick is to catch mental illness early...
    But wait a minute, they did just that with this guy and he was reported already to authorities. You may want to reconsider your argument.
    05-29-2014 01:58 PM
  4. palandri's Avatar
    But wait a minute, they did just that with this guy and he was reported already to authorities. You may want to reconsider your argument.
    No, he was 22 years old and they didn't have his mental illness under control.
    05-29-2014 02:24 PM
  5. Mooncatt's Avatar
    No, he was 22 years old and they didn't have his mental illness under control.
    Did you not pay attention to the reports that the cops were already notified of his intents? I agree that mental care is part of the issue, but this instance shows it's not the only key issue at play. This guy should have been detained and investigated when those videos were reported, but the cops let him off.
    05-29-2014 02:41 PM
  6. Scott7217's Avatar
    No, he was 22 years old and they didn't have his mental illness under control.
    So, let's say the police were able to subdue and arrest the shooter. Given that he has a history of mental illness, would he be eligible for the death penalty?
    05-29-2014 05:36 PM
  7. palandri's Avatar
    I'd like to see some evidence that anyone on the right said we don't have the money to spend on mental health.
    Let me correct that, let's call it pseudo-funding from the right. Take money out of one social program and transferring it to mental health, rather than taking money from the defense budget or money they pay rich agribusiness men not to plant crops, or data mining,,,etc...
    05-29-2014 05:57 PM
  8. palandri's Avatar
    Did you not pay attention to the reports that the cops were already notified of his intents? I agree that mental care is part of the issue, but this instance shows it's not the only key issue at play. This guy should have been detained and investigated when those videos were reported, but the cops let him off.
    Of course I read that. To try and blame it on, "There are just crazy people in the world and there's nothing we can do about it", is the easy way out, rather than addressing the problem of mental health.
    05-29-2014 06:01 PM
  9. palandri's Avatar
    So, let's say the police were able to subdue and arrest the shooter. Given that he has a history of mental illness, would he be eligible for the death penalty?
    That's up to the courts to decide.
    05-29-2014 06:36 PM
  10. jdbii's Avatar
    This was a popular article circulating on the internet the past 24 hours. The author basically argues that mental health isn't the problem and there is very little we can do to prevent mass murder by fixing the mental health system. One of his points is that when it comes to violence and violent behavior mental health is only one risk factor and not a very big one.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/28/op...lers.html?_r=0
    05-29-2014 06:44 PM
  11. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Of course I read that. To try and blame it on, "There are just crazy people in the world and there's nothing we can do about it", is the easy way out, rather than addressing the problem of mental health.
    That had nothing to do with what I said, so...
    05-29-2014 06:51 PM
  12. anon8126715's Avatar
    Half his victims were killed with said hammer and knife. Are their deaths less tragic because they don't fit into the lefts hot button issue of guns? I know it's easy to skip that and the fact that he's nuts and just jump on the liberal bandwagon that this all boils down to the fact that guns are bad.
    You didn't answer my question. DO YOU THINK he would've gone on his murderous rampage IF all he had access to was his car, a hammer, and a knife?
    05-29-2014 07:44 PM
  13. anon8126715's Avatar
    I'd like to see some evidence that anyone on the right said we don't have the money to spend on mental health.
    Two senators block Franken's mental health bill | Star Tribune
    05-29-2014 07:47 PM
  14. palandri's Avatar
    This was a popular article circulating on the internet the past 24 hours. The author basically argues that mental health isn't the problem and there is very little we can do to prevent mass murder by fixing the mental health system. One of his points is that when it comes to violence and violent behavior mental health is only one risk factor and not a very big one.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/28/op...lers.html?_r=0
    That's an absolute cop out, all he is saying is, "There are just crazy people in the world and there's nothing we can do about it".
    jdbii likes this.
    05-29-2014 08:23 PM
  15. anon8126715's Avatar
    That's an absolute cop out, all he is saying is, "There are just crazy people in the world and there's nothing we can do about it".
    One can argue that anyone that commits any crime has some sort of mental illness. I'd even go so far to say that a certain degree of insanity is required to survive in this world. An example I've pondered more than a few times, you go into the bathroom and lets say a guy is at the urinal, or at the sink and he blows his booty trumpet, you think nothing of it. If he were to do that at his desk, or in an elevator, everyone around him would look at him like he's a leper. But, back in that restroom, no one even bats an eye. But I digress (and no I'm not THAT guy that goes around breaking wind just anywhere).
    jdbii likes this.
    05-29-2014 08:40 PM
  16. Scott7217's Avatar
    That's up to the courts to decide.
    What if you were on the jury on a case where the shooter (who has a documented history of mental illness) was found guilty? Would you choose the death penalty during the sentencing phase, or would you choose life imprisonment in a mental institution without parole?
    05-29-2014 10:14 PM
  17. palandri's Avatar
    What if you were on the jury on a case where the shooter (who has a documented history of mental illness) was found guilty? Would you choose the death penalty during the sentencing phase, or would you choose life imprisonment in a mental institution without parole?
    It's a situation I would never encounter because I would be dropped from a jury pool during jury screening because I oppose the death penalty.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    05-30-2014 07:57 AM
  18. Scott7217's Avatar
    It's a situation I would never encounter because I would be dropped from a jury pool during jury screening because I oppose the death penalty.
    The good thing is that you would be honest about your views, which would give the prosecution an opportunity to substitute you with a juror who can decide between capital punishment or life in prison. It would be the defense that would want you on the jury because they would want to spare their client from the death penalty.
    05-30-2014 05:40 PM
  19. SteveISU's Avatar
    In general, Mental Health treatment and facilities has always been left up to the states. Where does it state in that article the Senators question where the $40 million is coming from or that we don't have it?
    06-02-2014 12:22 PM
  20. Scott7217's Avatar
    You didn't answer my question. DO YOU THINK he would've gone on his murderous rampage IF all he had access to was his car, a hammer, and a knife?
    I'm surprised no one has answered your question yet. Yes, people can go on a rampage, even if they only have access to a car, a hammer, and a knife. The difference is that there would probably be fewer victims. If someone wants a high body count, a pistol or a rifle would be a better choice.
    06-02-2014 02:37 PM
  21. Mooncatt's Avatar
    If someone wants a high body count, a pistol or a rifle would be a better choice.
    Or a pressure cooker...
    06-02-2014 07:24 PM
  22. anon8126715's Avatar
    Or a pressure cooker...
    Food poisoning of some sort?!?! ;-P.


    I think, err rather, am hopeful that authorities now know what to look for with regards to suspicious activity of that nature in a crowded venue. And then you have to follow the thought process. The Boston Marathon clowns had a different agenda that this college reject. He was specifically looking to lash out at a certain group, which would be difficult to target with a pressure cooker.

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
    06-02-2014 07:32 PM
  23. Mooncatt's Avatar
    The post I quoted was referring to a high body count in general. You can't take this one shooting and dismiss other forms of mass destruction because this shooter had s specific target type in mind.
    06-02-2014 09:58 PM
  24. anon8126715's Avatar
    The post I quoted was referring to a high body count in general. You can't take this one shooting and dismiss other forms of mass destruction because this shooter had s specific target type in mind.
    But the lunatic in the school shooting was targeting specific people. His rage was against people that he thought had a better life than his. The pressure cooker was set up to maim as many people in the name of some misguided religious beliefs that hate our way of life. What I'm saying is this college virgin wouldn't have gone through all the trouble of thinking out how to set up the pressure cooker to kill, then wait for an event to set it off. He was boiling over from not getting any action, so he wanted instant gratification (enter guns).
    06-03-2014 01:54 AM
  25. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Agreed, but when you look at all the various mass shootings, it's easily conceivable that even if all guns were outlawed, that those kind of deranged people could find other ways. And even this guy could have done it a different way. It's plausible that absence guns and a shooting spree, he could have kidnapped the people he wanted and used a knife like a serial killer.
    06-03-2014 02:56 AM
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