07-14-2014 07:46 AM
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  1. Live2ride883's Avatar
    We do not have a gun control problem, we have a crime problem. We need solutions that keep weapons of all types away from criminals.
    TheOtherBill likes this.
    02-21-2013 01:06 PM
  2. backbeat's Avatar
    We could try, you know, actually enforcing the laws that are already around.
    Can you or anyone spell out which specific laws have not been enforced which have summarily contributed to loss of life? I hear this bumper-sticker all the time, but no one can get beyond the cliche it seems. Or are you referring to the illegal sales of firearms which some here have advocated?

    Also, since people are so FOR preemptive removal of certain types of firearms to prevent crime and murder (and other things of course), then why are some of those same people against the drone strikes (or insert other preemptive measure there) that serves the same purpose, but on a potentially much larger scale?
    With a pivot to this unassociated, tangential argument, are you live2ride-in-drag?
    02-21-2013 01:10 PM
  3. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Can you or anyone spell out which specific laws have not been enforced which have summarily contributed to loss of life?

    Granted I do not have the ability to verify each individual case of people lying on their background check information to purchase firearms. But a deterrent to crime should be the knowledge that when you get caught you will be punished.

    VP: We 'don't have the time' to charge background check lies | The Daily Caller
    02-21-2013 01:22 PM
  4. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Can you or anyone spell out which specific laws have not been enforced which have summarily contributed to loss of life? I hear this bumper-sticker all the time, but no one can get beyond the cliche it seems. Or are you referring to the illegal sales of firearms which some here have advocated?



    With a pivot to this unassociated, tangential argument, are you live2ride-in-drag?
    It's not really unassociated. If you want to preemptively prevent violent crimes than they are related. I'm not sure anyone has advocated illegal sale of firearms (could be wrong there, honestly), but of course no one wants that.

    Also, you failed to address in any way whatsoever how taking away my right to choose how and what I use to defend my home is ok. Or are we just running on the assumption that anyone that owns a firearm that isn't a shotgun (or maybe pistol) is going to commit a violent crime at some point in the future? If that's in any way the case then that's prejudging and is like saying someone is guilty before a crime has even been committed.

    Also, punishing a large group of people for the crimes of a small percentage of that group has never been ok, right? So why is it ok now? And yes, it's a punishment to take something away that has been acquired legally and has never been used in violation of any laws.
    02-21-2013 01:23 PM
  5. Live2ride883's Avatar


    With a pivot to this unassociated, tangential argument, are you live2ride-in-drag?
    Yet another insult...
    02-21-2013 01:24 PM
  6. psychoken's Avatar
    So he is trying to make a joke out of a weapon.
    02-21-2013 01:25 PM
  7. backbeat's Avatar
    Granted I do not have the ability to verify each individual case of people lying on their background check information to purchase firearms. But a deterrent to crime should be the knowledge that when you get caught you will be punished.

    /SNIP/
    Would you like to try that again? This time without the cheap partisanship?
    02-21-2013 01:26 PM
  8. droidmyme's Avatar
    Can't show a painting to a blind man. Truth be told, no matter how much you obfuscate the facts, the problem isn't going away by itself. The next mass shooting involving an assault rifle will be tragic. And I'd like to think I did something to prevent that by supporting new gun control legislation, rather than being an obstructionist.

    Live2ride, your solution to the mass shootings is to increase the gun supply. Your logic is that more guns means people are safer. That's a sorely mistaken idea. I've said it before, and I will say it again. I just have to repeat myself like a broken record, maybe:

    A shotgun is an adequate measure for home defense.

    A study by the US Department of Justice from 2003-2007 shows that, of 3.7 million burglaries, 61% of robbers were unarmed. 61% of home burglars were unarmed. And of those burglaries, how many involved aggravated assault? 4.6%.

    4.6% of 3.7 million burglaries in a 4 year period involved aggravated assault. And yet you insist that you are "under armed" unless you have an AR-15 assault rifle? Please, cut the bull. It's not even true, it's not based on fact, it's a widespread, misperception that does nothing to prevent incidents of mass shootings.

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...s9qKKSNEPUQKZw

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    02-21-2013 01:34 PM
  9. Live2ride883's Avatar
    It is your choice what you choose to defend yourself, property and loved ones with. If you are satisfied with the protection a shotgun provides then please by all means be satisfied with that. I have ar-15's, I have shotguns, handguns, and I will soon own 3 ar-30a1's that have been ordered.

    My weapons have never committed an illegal act, and with over 3 million ar-15's in the hands of responsible gun owners I feel it is wrong to make criminals of us simply to make yourself feel good.
    02-21-2013 01:42 PM
  10. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Can't show a painting to a blind man. Truth be told, no matter how much you obfuscate the facts, the problem isn't going away by itself. The next mass shooting involving an assault rifle will be tragic. And I'd like to think I did something to prevent that by supporting new gun control legislation, rather than being an obstructionist.

    Live2ride, your solution to the mass shootings is to increase the gun supply. Your logic is that more guns means people are safer. That's a sorely mistaken idea. I've said it before, and I will say it again. I just have to repeat myself like a broken record, maybe:

    A shotgun is an adequate measure for home defense.

    A study by the US Department of Justice from 2003-2007 shows that, of 3.7 million burglaries, 61% of robbers were unarmed. 61% of home burglars were unarmed. And of those burglaries, how many involved aggravated assault? 4.6%.

    4.6% of 3.7 million burglaries in a 4 year period involved aggravated assault. And yet you insist that you are "under armed" unless you have an AR-15 assault rifle? Please, cut the bull. It's not even true, it's not based on fact, it's a widespread, misperception that does nothing to prevent incidents of mass shootings.

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...s9qKKSNEPUQKZw

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    I feel the need to ask, if Biden had said pistol instead of shotgun would you still feel that a shotgun was adequate, or would all of your references to shotguns be changed to pistols?

    If insert vehicle name here is adequate to get people anywhere they need to go, then why do we continue to sell large, impractical vehicles? Yes, it's related, in that you're taking away choice in either situation. In a car accident, a large, heavy vehicle has more energy than a small one, therefore causing more damage and potential injuries and/or deaths. Pretty sure accidents involving vehicles causes far more injuries and deaths than firearms.
    02-21-2013 01:44 PM
  11. droidmyme's Avatar
    That's a good question Kevin, and to tell you the truth, I'd say no to a pistol being adequate. Want to know why?

    A pistol can be lightweight and easily concealed. Lots of thieves and burglars could conceivably carry a pistol due to it's size. A pistol fires small caliber rounds.

    On the other hand, a homeowner doesn't need to move their weapon around because they are in one spot. They have space to store the shotgun. A shotgun has granular pellets that explode out in a conical trajectory, covering more area in a shorter range. So you don't need to be as accurate with a shotgun as a pistol, because of the ammunition.

    I wouldn't argue that all homeowners would feel safe carrying just a small caliber pistol. Based on the facts it doesn't appear reasonable. But it does seem reasonable that a larger, pump action shotgun with multiple rounds would be sufficient against the large *majority* of threats, and that's why I support what Biden is saying.



    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    02-21-2013 01:56 PM
  12. backbeat's Avatar
    How many vehicular homicides have occurred in the US, compared to murder/homicide via firearm since Sandy Hook? There is your relevance.
    droidmyme likes this.
    02-21-2013 02:01 PM
  13. Live2ride883's Avatar
    It is time to lower the rhetoric and allow cooler heads to prevail. The demonization of millions of loyal, law-abiding Americans and the firearms they legally own must cease. If we are to have a rational dialogue about firearms and violent crime, we must recognize that the very people who could be most affected have a First Amendment right to be heard.

    Recall the words of Abraham Lincoln, who cautioned us more than 150 years ago that A house divided against itself cannot stand. A half-century before him, Benjamin Franklin taught us that Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


    Owning firearms is a First Amendment exercise, too! | TheGunMag The Official Gun Magazine of the Second Amendment Foundation
    droidmyme and Etios like this.
    02-21-2013 02:03 PM
  14. Live2ride883's Avatar
    How many vehicular homicides have occurred in the US, compared to murder/homicide via firearm since Sandy Hook? There is your relevance.

    "Statistics show that almost twice as many people die in vehicle crashes per year than by any other form of homicide. Also, more people are murdered in crashes where alcohol is involved per year than are killed by guns."

    Related Accidents and Injuries - Vehicular Manslaughter | DUI Foundation
    02-21-2013 02:09 PM
  15. backbeat's Avatar
    "Statistics show that almost twice as many people die in vehicle crashes per year than by any other form of homicide. Also, more people are murdered in crashes where alcohol is involved per year than are killed by guns."

    Related Accidents and Injuries - Vehicular Manslaughter | DUI Foundation
    Try again? Vehicular homicide (where the intent is harm to another person) VS murder/homicide via firearm.
    02-21-2013 02:14 PM
  16. threepackape's Avatar
    landmines around your house... no ***** criminal is going to try breaking into your home. well... if one comes along, you'll probably hear it.
    02-21-2013 02:15 PM
  17. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Try again? Vehicular homicide (where the intent is harm to another person) VS murder/homicide via firearm.
    So you want specific narrow field statistics on this but yet feel no need or reason to provide them yourself?
    02-21-2013 02:18 PM
  18. Live2ride883's Avatar
    That's a good question Kevin, and to tell you the truth, I'd say no to a pistol being adequate. Want to know why?

    A pistol can be lightweight and easily concealed. Lots of thieves and burglars could conceivably carry a pistol due to it's size. A pistol fires small caliber rounds.

    On the other hand, a homeowner doesn't need to move their weapon around because they are in one spot. They have space to store the shotgun. A shotgun has granular pellets that explode out in a conical trajectory, covering more area in a shorter range. So you don't need to be as accurate with a shotgun as a pistol, because of the ammunition.

    I wouldn't argue that all homeowners would feel safe carrying just a small caliber pistol. Based on the facts it doesn't appear reasonable. But it does seem reasonable that a larger, pump action shotgun with multiple rounds would be sufficient against the large *majority* of threats, and that's why I support what Biden is saying.
    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    To lesson the importance of accuracy with any firearm is ignorant. That conical trajectory that you are referring to increases the possibility of collateral damage. Even if you had a shotgun with 5-8 rounds I will out shoot you with the 30 rounds in the magazine of my ar-15, and I have multiple magazines.

    If this thread has proven nothing else it's that what is reasonable to some of us is not to others.
    02-21-2013 02:30 PM
  19. backbeat's Avatar
    So you want specific narrow field statistics on this but yet feel no need or reason to provide them yourself?
    A straightforward request for readily available, apples vs apples info should not be met with utter contempt. Try again?
    02-21-2013 02:44 PM
  20. Live2ride883's Avatar
    A straightforward request for readily available, apples vs apples info should not be met with utter contempt. Try again?
    Not all gun deaths are intentional, hence the term involuntary manslaughter.

    I also think it's reprehensible to use the slaughter of innocent victims to further a political goal

    Manslaughter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Yet you throw an ultra generic 2,033 gun deaths since Sandy Hook out like it's gospel.
    02-21-2013 02:57 PM
  21. droidmyme's Avatar
    To lesson the importance of accuracy with any firearm is ignorant. That conical trajectory that you are referring to increases the possibility of collateral damage. Even if you had a shotgun with 5-8 rounds I will out shoot you with the 30 rounds in the magazine of my ar-15, and I have multiple magazines.

    If this thread has proven nothing else it's that what is reasonable to some of us is not to others.
    You keep referring to the superior ability of the AR-15 to the shotgun as rational for your argument that gun control legislation is not good policy?

    My friend, simply because one weapon is better than another does not mean anyone should have unrestricted access to it.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    02-21-2013 02:58 PM
  22. Live2ride883's Avatar
    You keep referring to the superior ability of the AR-15 to the shotgun as rational for your argument that gun control legislation is not good policy?

    My friend, simply because one weapon is better than another does not mean anyone should have unrestricted access to it.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    Yet law abiding gun owners should be forced to give up their legally obtained and used property simply because of the actions of a few criminals.
    02-21-2013 03:08 PM
  23. Markster1's Avatar
    What titles does he need to hold? Does one need to hold a title to shoot a gun? Because then you are suggesting that guns should be more regulated so that certification is required to operate them. Seems kind of ironic that someone who is pushing for deregulation wants titles and expert opinion.

    Sent from my LS670 using Android Central Forums
    You're inferring that biden knows what he is talking about so that would make him an expert so what are his credentials. How does he back up his statement you take as fact. Let's not backpedal, come on, give me an answer.
    02-21-2013 03:10 PM
  24. Live2ride883's Avatar
    02-21-2013 03:12 PM
  25. gollum18's Avatar
    Hmm the only gun you're legally allowed to own in japan is a shotgun. Apparently they got something right their crime rate is far lower than ours.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    02-21-2013 03:16 PM
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