07-14-2014 07:46 AM
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  1. jdbii's Avatar
    I wonder how I will handle it when/if I run into that same couple at the same park or another one in the future...
    Safety first. You'd be the bigger person and walk away, especially if he is in front of his wife and children. Some people are threatened by weapons.
    04-28-2013 01:29 AM
  2. jdbii's Avatar
    Australia only has 20+ million people. With such a small population, comparatively speaking, facts, figures, and stats can widely fluctuate and be easily manipulated by either side. I do think the 1996 law is hugely popular and regarded by nearly everybody -- other than the die hard gun advocates -- as being a success.
    Fairclough likes this.
    04-28-2013 01:45 AM
  3. Fairclough's Avatar
    Which link?
    AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

    The article you posted states
    "Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates: Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent."
    but infact that is the exact time gun laws were enforced! Australia had gun laws in 1996 onwards. Basically making the articles claim redundant. The link reports its a time during a gun era, but over 1 million guns were melted out of 3 million in existence in the country and extremely tight laws were enforced due to a massacre. If your refer back to the graphs, the countries with the tightest gun laws have the least deaths per 100,000. What is good about the graph its percentiles so its comparable. It is true Australia has a small population thus stats can be fudged to both ways, but there is a strong correlation in countries with larger populations like the UK and the ABS stats are from censuses so they are relatively reliable.


    If you could have less then 0.2 Deaths per 100,000 due to arms would you gladly give up your guns? I would say most of you would. Thus embrace change, from this side of the world Obama looks like his doing a great job - only if he could of done a better job with the health care reform.
    return_0 and jdbii like this.
    04-28-2013 06:25 AM
  4. bigdaddytee's Avatar
    Give a right up? To have a possibility at gaining something else? I think Mr. Franklin mentioned you.

    Sent from the (4.2 updated) redheaded stepchild of the Nexii
    04-28-2013 06:56 AM
  5. palandri's Avatar
    What did you expect? It's not 1860 and were not in Tombstone, Arizona. The vast majority of people don't walk around with an open carry weapon. You're breaking the norm.

    If you were carrying it concealed, none of this would have happened.

    What kind of state park was it? Does it have Bears or Coyotes? Or is it a state park with a trout stream, a kids playground and a couple of hiking trails?
    jdbii and flintlock like this.
    04-28-2013 09:48 AM
  6. Live2ride883's Avatar
    What did you expect? It's not 1860 and were not in Tombstone, Arizona. The vast majority of people don't walk around with an open carry weapon. You're breaking the norm.

    If you were carrying it concealed, none of this would have happened.

    What kind of state park was it? Does it have Bears or Coyotes? Or is it a state park with a trout stream, a kids playground and a couple of hiking trails?

    I expected to be able to take advantage of our PUBLIC state park without being harassed simply for choosing to carry a firearm.

    No playground for kids, just a park with some cliffs, caves and some paths. Breaking the norm is irrelevant I wasn't breaking the law...

    We have a city park with shelter houses, picnic tables and a huge play area for kids with slides, swing sets, etc for kids. Most families (mine included) use it for reunions. Last year almost every adult came to our reunion packing some type of sidearm. Nothing was said to any of us by anyone else at the park and the police were not called.
    Bratigan and The Hustleman like this.
    04-28-2013 02:55 PM
  7. Live2ride883's Avatar
    That makes sense. You might scare away a petty thug, but a hardened criminal might come up from behind and target you without you even knowing.



    Sorry, but this cuts both ways, and this is exactly why the young father was within his rights (not saying anyone is saying his isn't) to call the cops. He had no way of knowing that L2R was licensed and legal. An unlicensed person could have easily lied, and maybe if somebody had called the cops if they had seen any of the assailants in the numerous recent massacres a tragedy could have been avoided. People are on edge after the massacres and Boston. Furthermore, a background check by the government is not some kind of magic wand that once waived means no questions can be asked.

    There is a big push in Oregon for people to apply for concealed weapons permits. Pro-gun organizations are sponsoring seminars from town to town and the events are so popular that it is standing room only. The law of averages will guarantee that people will slip through the cracks.
    Ohio laws allow for the open carry of firearms, no license required.
    04-28-2013 03:01 PM
  8. Live2ride883's Avatar


    If you could have less then 0.2 Deaths per 100,000 due to arms would you gladly give up your guns? I would say most of you would.
    Absolutely NOT.
    04-28-2013 03:28 PM
  9. llamabreath's Avatar
    Doesn't matter where you are.
    These days, especially these days, seeing anybody in plain clothes with a gun on their hip can be quite disconcerting.

    For instance:
    Last week, I went to see a movie at one of those big 24 screen multiplexes. By the time I got out of the theatre, it was dark outside. Walking to my car on the side of the theater, out of the corner of my eye, I noticed somebody walking towards the back of the theatre with a gun sticking out on his side.

    Guess what my first thought was. Of course I thought this guy was up to no good. I don't carry, but I felt it necessary to get a closer look, so I passed my parked car and nonchalantly walked closer behind him.

    I then was able to see that he had one of those secret-service looking wires coming out of his ear and when he turned behind the theatre, he walked towards a third-party security car. Then I exhaled and walked back to my car, thinking of how heightened everybody's nerves are these days because of all the traumatic news unfolding lately.

    This is probably exactly how that family in the park felt when they saw you with that gun.

    Truly sad, isn't it?
    04-28-2013 03:35 PM
  10. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:
    Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
    During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
    Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
    Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
    At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
    Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.
    -------
    I was using this information for the data on violent crimes, not gun homicides. Of course with a gun ban in place there will be fewer homicides committed by guns.

    My wife and daughter are safer in the US with guns than Aus. without them.
    The Hustleman and aggie like this.
    04-28-2013 03:35 PM
  11. gollum18's Avatar
    Hey I'm fine with concealed weapons, as long as they are not allowed in places where alcohol is served.

    Because

    Alcohol+Guns=Disaster

    The only person that should have one is the owner of the restaurant/bar.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    04-28-2013 03:37 PM
  12. return_0's Avatar
    Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:
    Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
    During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
    Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
    Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
    At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
    Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.
    -------
    I was using this information for the data on violent crimes, not gun homicides. Of course with a gun ban in place there will be fewer homicides committed by guns.

    My wife and daughter are safer in the US with guns than Aus. without them.
    Have you ever considered that there may be other factors than a gun ban that can contribute to increasing violence rates?

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    04-28-2013 04:25 PM
  13. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Hey I'm fine with concealed weapons, as long as they are not allowed in places where alcohol is served.

    Because

    Alcohol+Guns=Disaster

    The only person that should have one is the owner of the restaurant/bar.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    Page 66 of The handbook of Ohio firearms law:

    Ohio does not generally allow firearms in liquor establishments, even if the firearm owner is not drinking and even if he stays out of the bar area. The liquor statutes define liquor as any intoxicating beverage other than beer, so possession of firearms that only dispense beer is allowed.

    The exact language of the statute is as follows:

    "No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming liquor in premises for which a D permit has been issued under chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued."

    For a real world example, there are a few pizza places in towns near where I live that serve beer. As long as the owner does not have a sign posted within 15 feet of the entrance I can legally carry in that establishment.
    04-28-2013 04:36 PM
  14. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Have you ever considered that there may be other factors than a gun ban that can contribute to increasing violence rates?

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    PLEASE tell me what those factors are, because that much of an increase simply tells me that criminals are taking advantage of the fact that the government has taken away the citizens best defense against them.
    -----------------------------------------

    A gun ban simply removes the victims ability to defend themselves from violent criminals. My wife also prefers to open carry, which do you think a criminal looking to commit rape is more likely to go after, a woman with a 9mm Glock visible on her waist, or one without a sidearm.

    A visible gun is a deterrent to a criminal looking for an easy victim.
    The Hustleman likes this.
    04-28-2013 04:42 PM
  15. return_0's Avatar
    A gun ban simply removes the victims ability to defend themselves from violent criminals.
    It also removes the assailant's ability to steal the victim's gun and use it against him/her.

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    jdbii likes this.
    04-28-2013 04:47 PM
  16. llamabreath's Avatar
    Nine out of ten assailants probably carry a gun, or at least a knife.
    04-28-2013 04:59 PM
  17. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Nine out of ten assailants probably carry a gun, or at least a knife.
    I would say most probably carry a gun, even in places where they are banned. Because a knife requires close contact with the victim to truly be a threat. This opens up the possibility that the victim could disarm the criminal.

    A gun allows the criminal to intimidate the victim from a distance.

    Again I ask the question:
    "Which do you think a criminal looking to commit rape is more likely to go after, a woman with a 9mm Glock visible on her waist, or one without a sidearm?"
    04-28-2013 05:11 PM
  18. palandri's Avatar
    I expected to be able to take advantage of our PUBLIC state park without being harassed simply for choosing to carry a firearm.

    No playground for kids, just a park with some cliffs, caves and some paths. Breaking the norm is irrelevant I wasn't breaking the law...

    We have a city park with shelter houses, picnic tables and a huge play area for kids with slides, swing sets, etc for kids. Most families (mine included) use it for reunions. Last year almost every adult came to our reunion packing some type of sidearm. Nothing was said to any of us by anyone else at the park and the police were not called.
    First of all, you said in your first post, "....Is there anything in this scenario that you would have done differently, had you been in my place, or the husband/wife's....". Yes there is something you could have done differently. You said you have conceal carry permit. If you would of had your weapon concealed, none of this would have happened. Problem solved.

    Next you said, "...I kinda prefer to open carry simply for the fact that the bad guys will see it and understand that I am someone that they have to deal with from the beginning of any crap that they might have planned, and it may force them to cancel those plans...". By your own admission, you're trying draw attention to yourself, and you did exactly that in this case.

    You also said, "... I parked the bike next to a family in a silver minivan, the little kids were riding their bicycles, and big wheels in the parking lot..." Do you think that's a dangerous scenario? These people don't know who you are and like I said, the vast majority of people don't open carry.

    Then trying to equate the reason you carry, to why police carry is ridiculous. Police have to respond to dangerous situations.

    What did you learn in the Military about situational awareness? I know what I learned from it. It's all about keeping yourself out of trouble and out of harms way.
    jdbii, msndrstood and flintlock like this.
    04-28-2013 05:11 PM
  19. Live2ride883's Avatar
    First of all, you said in your first post, "....Is there anything in this scenario that you would have done differently, had you been in my place, or the husband/wife's....". Yes there is something you could have done differently. You said you have conceal carry permit. If you would of had your weapon concealed, none of this would have happened. Problem solved.

    Next you said, "...I kinda prefer to open carry simply for the fact that the bad guys will see it and understand that I am someone that they have to deal with from the beginning of any crap that they might have planned, and it may force them to cancel those plans...". By your own admission, you're trying draw attention to yourself, and you did exactly that in this case.

    You also said, "... I parked the bike next to a family in a silver minivan, the little kids were riding their bicycles, and big wheels in the parking lot..." Do you think that's a dangerous scenario? These people don't know who you are and like I said, the vast majority of people don't open carry.

    Then trying to equate the reason you carry, to why police carry is ridiculous. Police have to respond to dangerous situations.

    What did you learn in the Military about situational awareness? I know what I learned from it. It's all about keeping yourself out of trouble and out of harms way.
    Even though I do have a conceal carry permit it is my choice to carry open or conceal. They also could have minded their own business. Problem solved.

    OK, kinda was a poor choice of words on my part.

    The parking place I put the bike in was the closest to the hiking trail I had planned on taking into the woods.

    I carry to defend myself in case a dangerous situation comes up.

    Keep in mind, I was minding my own business. I made no threatening gestures, or movements.
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    04-28-2013 05:38 PM
  20. palandri's Avatar
    Even though I do have a conceal carry permit it is my choice to carry open or conceal. They also could have minded their own business. Problem solved.

    OK, kinda was a poor choice of words on my part.

    The parking place I put the bike in was the closest to the hiking trail I had planned on taking into the woods.

    I carry to defend myself in case a dangerous situation comes up.

    Keep in mind, I was minding my own business. I made no threatening gestures, or movements.
    Nothing you did was wrong and the Sheriff handled it well, but expect more of it in the future if you open carry. If people see things out of the norm it attracts attention. I have a right to walk around with gas mask or tin foil hat on, but it's certainly going to attract attention because it's out of the norm.
    jdbii likes this.
    04-28-2013 06:09 PM
  21. Bratigan's Avatar
    You don't have to explain yourself at all to anybody. The law said you were within your rights.
    The non gun owning public should brush up a little on the laws especially since they are the
    ones freaking out. In my state I have an unrestricted concealed carry permit. I always conceal
    the weapon at all times. In my state people freak out if they merely get a glimps of it under your clothing
    or if you are wearing a jacket and it falls slightly open then the troopers are called, and it's usually rectified in a
    similar manner as above. It takes all kinds and dealing with the wide variety helps build character.
    The Hustleman likes this.
    04-28-2013 06:13 PM
  22. jdbii's Avatar
    Keep in mind, I was minding my own business. I made no threatening gestures, or movements.
    You can't possible take yourself seriously and believe this statement. By openly carrying a weapon you are telegraphing very loudly publicly that you are person not to be *ucked with. You've made it quite clear that is your intent. I'll go out on a limb here and surmise that you are a capable looking guy that oozes testosterone. You could probably just wiggle your pinky finger and that would be enough to scare off many men. So a guy like you packing openly and coming into contact with other people's children in a state park is not that different than some big burly and scary looking stranger walking through a playground with a chainsaw strapped to his back. You can explain all you want to the police that you were minding your own business and within your constitutional rights but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that some parents of toddlers in your vicinity are going to be nervous and call the police.
    return_0 and msndrstood like this.
    04-28-2013 06:55 PM
  23. return_0's Avatar
    Put yourself in their shoes. How were they to know you're not some psycho who can instantly whip out a gun and murder someone? Obviously you're not, but what assurance did they have? Anyone in the right mind would feel threatened when a random stranger with a gun is standing within a few feet of their children.

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    palandri, jdbii and msndrstood like this.
    04-28-2013 07:09 PM
  24. jdbii's Avatar
    "Which do you think a criminal looking to commit rape is more likely to go after, a woman with a 9mm Glock visible on her waist, or one without a sidearm?"
    Good point. I never thought of that, but she needs to be trained and know how to use it. Otherwise there is the potential that she will be disarmed and the weapon used against her.
    04-28-2013 07:12 PM
  25. llamabreath's Avatar
    Again I ask the question:
    "Which do you think a criminal looking to commit rape is more likely to go after, a woman with a 9mm Glock visible on her waist, or one without a sidearm?"
    The only women I've seen with guns on their sides were law enforcement. How often do you see a plain Jane openly carrying? I NEVER saw it, growing up in NYC and I've never seen it here in Atlanta, and guns are alot more accessible here than up north.
    04-28-2013 07:25 PM
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