07-14-2014 07:46 AM
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  1. Aquila's Avatar
    Then I hope Live2Ride is my neighbor. You think he'd defend a liberal like me?
    I think that liberal and conservative would become just words for awhile. People are great about dropping nonsense separation issues when others near them need help.
    jdbii likes this.
    05-11-2013 09:20 PM
  2. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Then I hope Live2Ride is my neighbor. You think he'd defend a liberal like me?
    Initially of course I would, but I would also teach you to not only defend yourself, but others as well.
    jdbii and Aquila like this.
    05-11-2013 09:21 PM
  3. llamabreath's Avatar
    Ok, i fixed my previous post to include the link to the guy standing up to the tanks in China back in '89.

    Come one, come all, hop on the Lllllllama Bandwagon! FREE POPCORN!!! You'll need it! (bring your own butter)
    jdbii likes this.
    05-11-2013 09:28 PM
  4. Aquila's Avatar
    Ok, i fixed my previous post to include the link to the guy standing up to the tanks in China back in '89.

    Come one, come all, hop on the Lllllllama Bandwagon! FREE POPCORN!!! You'll need it! (bring your own butter)
    I love that he climbed up on the thing
    jdbii likes this.
    05-11-2013 09:34 PM
  5. dchawk81's Avatar
    I may not be able to stand up to the government by myself, even if you add others into the equation that feel the way I do when or if that time ever comes when we literally have to defend ourselves against tyranny. But honestly I would rather at least have a fighting chance.

    It may not mean much, but during the revolutionary war only about 3% of the population fought the British at any given time.
    The British didn't have nukes yet. Or even tanks. But we did need get help from the French.
    jdbii and Aquila like this.
    05-11-2013 09:36 PM
  6. llamabreath's Avatar
    I love that he climbed up on the thing
    Yep, this guy is a true hero.



    (Either that or he's just crazy)

    Come one, come all, hop on the Lllllllama Bandwagon! FREE POPCORN!!! You'll need it! (bring your own butter)
    jdbii likes this.
    05-11-2013 09:36 PM
  7. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Disagree.
    No matter how many arms the citizens possess, they wouldn't be able to stop a Sherman tank from flattening them AND their house.
    The 2nd Amendment was written in different times. It's outdated compared to what the government has available to itself nowadays and I'm sure we can all agree that the government has things it can use that we don't even know about.

    Come one, come all, hop on the Lllllllama Bandwagon! FREE POPCORN!!! You'll need it! (bring your own butter)
    With mainframe computers less powerful than a modern calculator we put a man on the moon, granted it was a team effort and the funding was there as well as the desire. The individuals responsible for that came from all walks of life. IF a second American revolution does come about which believe me I hope it doesn't. It will take people from all walks of life contributing what they can from their life and their experience to the cause. Compared to some in my area I have an extensive weapons cache, but compared to others mine is quite small. I could probably arm 30-40 people with several weapons and a significant amount of ammo for each of those weapons.

    Someone else may have knowledge of how to sabotage a Sherman tank, or other piece of military hardware.
    Attached Thumbnails Firearms and self-defense-tiananmen-square-1989.jpg  
    05-11-2013 09:37 PM
  8. Aquila's Avatar
    The British didn't have nukes yet. Or even tanks. But we did need get help from the French.
    It was a very different dynamic. The British were better armed and more disciplined (which hurt them in guerrilla tactics) but they also had serious supply chain and reinforcement issues and major issues with mobility. In the days when you had to march from Boston to New York, yeah it was a different game. Now that flight can be done in under 20 minutes by fighters/bombers and in a little over an hour in transports carrying troops. Even driving in a convoy it's only about 4.5 hours away, assuming you can clear the traffic out of the way. It's not even comparable how badly any single city or state would be destroyed if they stood alone. The question is, really, would the entire country ever unite again towards common purpose, other than if we were invaded? I think it'd take a lot.
    jdbii likes this.
    05-11-2013 09:41 PM
  9. llamabreath's Avatar
    Thanks for that picture. I was trying to upload that same picture but couldn't for some reason.

    Come one, come all, hop on the Lllllllama Bandwagon! FREE POPCORN!!! You'll need it! (bring your own butter)
    05-11-2013 09:42 PM
  10. dchawk81's Avatar
    With mainframe computers less powerful than a modern calculator we put a man on the moon, granted it was a team effort and the funding was there as well as the desire. The individuals responsible for that came from all walks of life. IF a second American revolution does come about which believe me I hope it doesn't. It will take people from all walks of life contributing what they can from their life and their experience to the cause. Compared to some in my area I have an extensive weapons cache, but compared to others mine is quite small. I could probably arm 30-40 people with several weapons and a significant amount of ammo for each of those weapons.

    Someone else may have knowledge of how to sabotage a Sherman tank, or other piece of military hardware.
    They also started a federal agency and got a ton of money from the US Government to do it.
    05-11-2013 09:42 PM
  11. dchawk81's Avatar
    It was a very different dynamic. The British were better armed and more disciplined (which hurt them in guerrilla tactics) but they also had serious supply chain and reinforcement issues and major issues with mobility. In the days when you had to march from Boston to New York, yeah it was a different game. Now that flight can be done in under 20 minutes by fighters/bombers and in a little over an hour in transports carrying troops. Even driving in a convoy it's only about 4.5 hours away, assuming you can clear the traffic out of the way. It's not even comparable how badly any single city or state would be destroyed if they stood alone. The question is, really, would the entire country ever unite again towards common purpose, other than if we were invaded? I think it'd take a lot.
    That's my point really. Using the Revolutionary War as an example doesn't really work since no one had a huge advantage...like the ability to wipe out an entire city without even being detected. Back then, the rifles were basically the same and strategy won out. Kind of like the winner of a NASCAR race is the one with the most alert pit crew and correct adjustments...not the one with the most horsepower or best aerodynamic design.
    Aquila likes this.
    05-11-2013 09:50 PM
  12. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Win or loose, it would still be a cause worth dying for...
    jdbii likes this.
    05-11-2013 09:54 PM
  13. Aquila's Avatar
    Win or loose, it would still be a cause worth dying for...
    Agree that inevitable defeat doesn't mean it's not worth doing, but it might mean it's worth thinking it through. But also, how many times has sheer will overcome ridiculous odds? The odds are definitely longer now, but if something is worth fighting or dying for, then it's worth it no matter what the odds say. Han Solo knows this.
    jdbii likes this.
    05-11-2013 09:56 PM
  14. dchawk81's Avatar
    Win or loose, it would still be a cause worth dying for...
    I dunno about that. I REALLY like my Android.
    Aquila and jdbii like this.
    05-11-2013 09:57 PM
  15. dchawk81's Avatar
    Fortunately, we in the US don't have too much to worry about for at least awhile yet; our politicians are just as fat & happy with the status quo as we are.
    05-11-2013 10:00 PM
  16. llamabreath's Avatar
    Compared to some in my area I have an extensive weapons cache, but compared to others mine is quite small. I could probably arm 30-40 people with several weapons and a significant amount of ammo for each of those weapons.
    But at what point does it go from 'defending myself from a tyrannical government' to just a coin collection?

    Come one, come all, hop on the Lllllllama Bandwagon! FREE POPCORN!!! You'll need it! (bring your own butter)
    05-11-2013 10:28 PM
  17. rexxman's Avatar
    Try reading it, not reading into it.
    Actually Live2, I was also looking forward to your answer. More as insight to what your statement was actually saying. I've read it numerous times and I can't decide how to interpret. I know what a false flag is but who is deploying? The protesters, the civil authorities, someone else? Help.

    Blue 32gb Galaxy S3
    msndrstood likes this.
    05-11-2013 10:44 PM
  18. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Actually Live2, I was also looking forward to your answer. More as insight to what your statement was actually saying. I've read it numerous times and I can't decide how to interpret. I know what a false flag is but who is deploying? The protesters, the civil authorities, someone else? Help.

    Blue 32gb Galaxy S3
    Anyone with an ax to grind could plan a false flag operation at an event like this. All it would take is a few well placed shots. As for exactly who would do it, that's hard to say I guess we'd just have to look at who would have the most to gain from it.

    Instead of the police department threatening that the officers will not back down, etc. They should be discussing the best way to ensure that things don't go south as they say.

    Personally I think the event will be cancelled for one reason or another, from what I have heard there are supposed to be about 3000 people signed up on this guys FB page saying they will attend, or very few people will actually show up.
    rexxman likes this.
    05-11-2013 11:14 PM
  19. Aquila's Avatar
    Anyone with an ax to grind could plan a false flag operation at an event like this. All it would take is a few well placed shots. As for exactly who would do it, that's hard to say I guess we'd just have to look at who would have the most to gain from it.

    Instead of the police department threatening that the officers will not back down, etc. They should be discussing the best way to ensure that things don't go south as they say.

    Personally I think the event will be cancelled for one reason or another, from what I have heard there are supposed to be about 3000 people signed up on this guys FB page saying they will attend, or very few people will actually show up.
    I think the officers really shouldn't back down, carrying in their city is illegal and if they make exceptions for this case, why would it not be okay for an actual criminal? That being said, they don't need to puff out their chests about it, it's true they could reach out and perhaps suggest a more sane location, such as in Virginia.

    If you think about it, even if it's peaceful, every one of them could have their weapons confiscated on the spot and could be charged with a (or several) crime(s) which, if convicted, depending on what they're charged with, could result in their access to purchasing or owning firearms being revoked, which in turn starts the confiscation debate because at that point it'd be absolutely legal to require that they turn over their firearms. That's why I was saying earlier, even if nothing goes wrong, it's 100% peaceful and they're all arrested, etc. with no problems, it still accomplishes absolutely nothing positive.
    05-11-2013 11:20 PM
  20. Live2ride883's Avatar
    But at what point does it go from 'defending myself from a tyrannical government' to just a coin collection?

    Come one, come all, hop on the Lllllllama Bandwagon! FREE POPCORN!!! You'll need it! (bring your own butter)
    When I stop practicing with them, and just purchase a gun just to add it in. Most of the guns I own are for my own use, or members of my family. However there are a few that I bought or inherited from family members that were used in the civil war.
    05-11-2013 11:23 PM
  21. Aquila's Avatar
    When I stop practicing with them, and just purchase a gun just to add it in. Most of the guns I own are for my own use, or members of my family. However there are a few that I bought or inherited from family members that were used in the civil war.
    That brings up one thing about the ownership of guns that often escapes a lot of people. Some of them have high value to owners because of artistic and/or historical value. Like it or not, the first 12,000 years of "civilization" were forged by the sword and the last 600 have been sculpted by gunsmiths. I'm actually personally more in favor of people having historically significant weapons as collector items than modern weapons. I personally have a pretty decent collection of melee type weapons, which I also am trained with and the only difference I see between this and a firearm armory is that my weapons, should an accident happen, will never kill anyone not in the same room as the weapon.

    It's not just about self defense, or defense against tyranny, or hunting, or target practice or military readiness or collecting. Just like everything else, people have many reasons for wanting them. I agree with regulating who can have them and, to a point, such as fully automatic weapons, etc. but I don't like getting into a debate of, "why do you need them" because I don't think anyone does need them. I think the argument that the AR-15 is the musket of 2012 is nonsense, but I also see very little distinction between it and any semi-automatic other rifle.

    Bottom line for me is that most people do not have the training and discipline necessary to have weapons (of any kind) without endangering themselves or others. Those that do are no threat to me whatsoever, but stupid + a weapon, be it firearm, knife, rock or car is a bad combination and we currently have a large problem (possibly another thread) with stupid.
    jdbii and r_kage like this.
    05-11-2013 11:35 PM
  22. chubb's Avatar
    At the end of the day we dont need gun control. We need better mental health care.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Aquila likes this.
    05-11-2013 11:36 PM
  23. Aquila's Avatar
    At the end of the day we dont need gun control. We need better mental health care.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    I'd only add a real comprehensive and scientific education to the mental health improvement.

    And if this is a genie, so we get three wishes... erase poverty from the Earth. We have enough food, we have enough resources, why do we have people suffering? How much of the rest of our problems are caused directly by poverty? We know most crime is... how much of mental health issues are tied directly to poverty and/or a devastatingly useless education?
    05-11-2013 11:57 PM
  24. llamabreath's Avatar
    And here's the third wish:

    Come one, come all, hop on the Lllllllama Bandwagon! FREE POPCORN!!! You'll need it! (bring your own butter)
    Attached Thumbnails Firearms and self-defense-uploadfromtaptalk1368335016572.jpg  
    05-12-2013 12:03 AM
  25. dchawk81's Avatar
    I'd only add a real comprehensive and scientific education to the mental health improvement.

    And if this is a genie, so we get three wishes... erase poverty from the Earth. We have enough food, we have enough resources, why do we have people suffering? How much of the rest of our problems are caused directly by poverty? We know most crime is... how much of mental health issues are tied directly to poverty and/or a devastatingly useless education?
    And the elimination of all data caps.
    Aquila and GadgetGator like this.
    05-12-2013 12:12 AM
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