07-14-2014 07:46 AM
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  1. ItnStln's Avatar
    You just don't understand.

    Come one, come all, hop on the Lllllllama Bandwagon! FREE POPCORN!!! You'll need it! (bring your own towel)
    Do tell, llamabreath!
    05-14-2013 02:13 PM
  2. trix's Avatar
    I find it amusing people are so concerned with guns when our constitution blatantly says our rights shall not be infringed.

    Wish we could start putting bans on alcohol, cigarettes, and obesity. What good does that do anyone? It kills far more people than these shooting sprees.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
    05-14-2013 02:37 PM
  3. llamabreath's Avatar
    Wish we could start putting bans on alcohol, cigarettes, and obesity. What good does that do anyone? It kills far more people than these shooting sprees.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
    But they do that to themselves, not others.

    05-14-2013 02:44 PM
  4. dchawk81's Avatar
    I have no problem with sane, rational, legal ownership and sportsmanship with firearms.

    I do have a problem with insane, irrational, illegal murder with firearms.

    I have no idea what the answer is. Cultural diversity and population density is a wonderful yet dangerous combination.
    Tall Mike 2145 likes this.
    05-14-2013 02:54 PM
  5. Patrick Schroedl's Avatar
    Let's make sure to respect others' opinions, no matter how much you may disagree with those opinions on a personal or professional level. Keep personal attacks and inflammatory statements out of it, there's no need for that here. All it does is make the discussion more difficult and result in the moderators having to get involved; nobody wants that. I've cleaned a few posts.
    jdbii likes this.
    05-14-2013 03:21 PM
  6. trix's Avatar
    But they do that to themselves, not others.

    [Moderator edit.]

    1. Secondhand smoke kills TONS of people, even in this day and age.

    2. Vehicle crashes alone involving drunk drivers kill roughly 10,000 people a year. My grandpa was killed by a drunk driver.

    3. Obesity may not directly affect other in regards to their safety, but in terms of cost, absolutely! Do you realize that obesity is regarded as one of the leading, if not leading, cause of preventable death every year? Do you not think insurance companies factor in those costs to everyones premiums? Especially when the universal healthcare bill comes into full force.


    So do you realky want to compare the number of people those things effect as compared to random acts of violence with guns? Also, what good does cigarettes do other than feed an addiction? Nothing. Guns have many actual purposes not detrimental to ones health. If someone wanted to do a mass killing they could do it other ways than with guns.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
    05-14-2013 03:24 PM
  7. rexxman's Avatar
    And interesting that gun advocates can suggest all sorts of items to ban.

    We do accept that certain 'working' arms may not be owned. For instance, stinger missiles, howitzers, hand grenades, etc. So the infringement clause is not absolute.

    Hospitals kill more folks than guns, drunks, pools and cars combined. Yet, we would not ban hospitals.

    Posted via Android Central App
    msndrstood likes this.
    05-14-2013 03:46 PM
  8. Aquila's Avatar
    And interesting that gun advocates can suggest all sorts of items to ban.

    We do accept that certain 'working' arms may not be owned. For instance, stinger missiles, howitzers, hand grenades, etc. So the infringement clause is not absolute.

    Hospitals kill more folks than guns, drunks, pools and cars combined. Yet, we would not ban hospitals.

    Posted via Android Central App
    I don't really want to ban anything. I want to restrict which people can use them, which we already do... in theory, so I guess I want to do that in actual practice. No known criminals, no known people mental health issues, and no one that doesn't have at least a Masters degree in some sort of cosmology or natural physics related field. And string theory is just silly, shut up about it. Ok, maybe the degree thing is wrong, but we DO restrict who can buy alcohol (be above a certain age, not on parole, etc), and we do restrict who can drive a car and even test proficiency. I'm definitely in favor of more safety training regarding weapons.
    msndrstood likes this.
    05-14-2013 03:49 PM
  9. Patrick Schroedl's Avatar
    To all in this thread, let's make sure we keep things civil and on-topic. There are relevant issues to discuss here (though there is already plenty of discussion on firearms in this forum), but if this thread degenerates into unwanted comments it will be closed.
    05-14-2013 03:53 PM
  10. Tall Mike 2145's Avatar
    Well, my point is simply that our morality, decency, and civility as a nation has eroded greatly even in the course of my own lifetime, and so it is to be expected that we are going to see the sort of horrific events that we have seen in the course of the last two-and-a-half decades.

    Now, is gun crime itself down, overall? I don't know; maybe it is. Maybe the uptick in gun ownership has played a role in that, assuming those statistics are correct. But from where I sit, things are getting worse out there, not better.
    05-14-2013 07:03 PM
  11. Tall Mike 2145's Avatar
    Mein Herr Schroedl, you are missing the point. This is America, where we can debate what we want with passion and emotion and be polarized and never reach any conclusion because we don't desire to have anything in common with our evil, ignorant opponents.

    </sarcasm>

    In all seriousness, we are a nation deeply divided on so many issues, and the gun issue is just one of them. But without the capacity remaining for rational discourse, we're never really going to solve any of these issues, are we?
    05-14-2013 07:11 PM
  12. Tall Mike 2145's Avatar
    As much as the U.S. Government claims to be all about supporting freedom and republican democracy, don't you believe it for one second. Our government has a fairly crappy history when it comes to such matters (suspension of civil liberties during the Civil War, supporting slavery, killing/enslaving Indians and driving them from their own lands, putting Jim Crowe laws into place and then finding them acceptable (yes, they were eventually overturned, but not without pressure from the people), anti-Asian laws, Trail of Tears, incarceration without cause, due process, or trial of thousands of American citizens of Japanese descent, various doctrines regarding Central and South America, black ops missions to support killing American citizens who have become threats, overthrowing the legitimate government of Iran in 1953, assassinating a sitting president due to inter-departmental and inter-service rivalries and a distaste for his policies, lying to everyone about Vietnam, all the crap that got revealed in the infamous "Pentagon Papers" affair, Ruby Ridge, our involvement in Iraq and Pakistan (especially Iraq), all the crap we have learned thanks to WikiLeaks and Private Manning... yeah, keep telling us about why we should trust our government.

    The only thing sadder than what I've said above is that there are many governments which either are or have been a multitude worse than our own.

    So, what does this have to do with the 3D-printing of firearm parts? Well, every time we have an advance in technology, there are always people out there seeing what they can do with it. And every time that happens, there's going to be those who are fine, decent people (in reality) who do things others don't like, and there's obviously always going to be those looking for opportunities to exploit. And every time this happens, we think that if we just pass more laws or try and clamp down harder on everyone, that we can make the problem go away. Well, those 3D plans are out, and others obviously have copies. Moreover, does anyone here honestly think that such plans can come from only one source? What happens when plans for different weapons start coming out from other sources? What are we going to do then, push for greater International regulation and control on the Internet, and a worldwide Big Brother state? I mean, let's face it, in theory that's the only way to make the world absolutely safe.

    And, in practice, we know that's the worst possible thing any of us can ever do.
    Patrick Schroedl likes this.
    05-14-2013 07:29 PM
  13. Aquila's Avatar
    In all seriousness, we are a nation deeply divided on so many issues, and the gun issue is just one of them. But without the capacity remaining for rational discourse, we're never really going to solve any of these issues, are we?
    I don't think the division is necessary. I think if we ask key questions of people outside of the context and verbiage of politics, we'd get very similar answers from both sides. Many recent surveys that I've studied seem to indicate that progressives and libertarians have more in common than libertarians and mainstream republicans and progressives and democrats, which means, to me, that there is hope for common ground and rational debate.

    Ask anyone:

    Should be give people trials before putting them in prison?
    Should be murder innocent people?
    Should we pay our bills?
    Should we let corporations buy and sell our politicians?
    Should congress represent the people or repress the people?
    Are all people created equal and ought they be observed as equal under the law?
    Should we let our government lie to us?
    Is high quality education good for our nation's future?
    Do we care about our nation's future?

    I think we'd be hard pressed to find intelligent people that disagree on those points... which creates a foundation for, "what are our goals and how do we accomplish them". We need a mission to work towards to develop more cohesiveness and synergy.
    05-14-2013 07:36 PM
  14. Bob Sugar's Avatar
    I won't dispute that society as a whole is in the gutter. My generation (I'm 28) has very little integrity, sense of work ethic, pride, respect for elders, or any level of decency. What we do have is a great amount of entitlement, concern with things such as American Idol, and very little desire to find things out on our own. Very few want to figure it out, would rather just be spoon fed and move along to the next feeding.

    You cannot dispute cold hard facts, I'm sorry.
    05-14-2013 07:48 PM
  15. return_0's Avatar
    Are all people created equal and ought they be observed as equal under the law?
    Nearly half the country does not think so.

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    05-14-2013 08:21 PM
  16. jusmebabe's Avatar
    Australia has strict gun control, a tiny fraction of the gun deaths, 1/10 the imprisonment, but I understand your afraid, like any warzone, so many of your neighbours have guns. Chicken and egg, as many people in the US die from guns as car crashes, cars have killed more US citizens than War, since WWII. Most gun deaths are a man killing his wife and or children, since the advent of Reaganomics the average citizen there has gained 1 cent in the dollar. Even the rich have only doubled their money in 30 years, in China in that time they've gone from famine to 800 million middle income. Chinese poor are 10 times as wealthy, middle class 50X, rich 400X. In the midst of exponential technological progress, 4 years more education per person, access to 10X the capital, the US managed to have a fourty year great stagnation. They've paid for their poverty by going into private and government debt, what happened, you land on the Moon and then instead of entering an episode of the Jetsons, you went into an episode of the Flintstones. Now the emerging economies are worth more than the developed ones, government of the executives, by the corporate lawyers and for the speculators. It's brought down government of the consumer, by the shareholder, for the employees, all you had to do was produce aluminium, 4 cylinder cars, 4 decades ago and you'd have been as rich as Cresus.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Go look at the crime rate then come back and talk. Always nice to sit on your perch talking about a country you know nothing about.
    I won't comment on the rest of your diatribe.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Android Central Forums
    05-14-2013 08:47 PM
  17. return_0's Avatar
    Always nice to sit on your perch talking about a country you know nothing about.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Android Central Forums
    Then why won't you believe the guy who actually LIVES in the country?

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    msndrstood and Fairclough like this.
    05-14-2013 08:54 PM
  18. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Go look at the crime rate then come back and talk. Always nice to sit on your perch talking about a country you know nothing about.
    I won't comment on the rest of your diatribe.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Android Central Forums

    I am still waiting on more information on this specific line from stunx120fshwf
    "Most gun deaths are a man killing his wife and or children, "
    05-14-2013 09:50 PM
  19. jusmebabe's Avatar
    I believe 2 guys who live in the country. We talk often and they tell me about the rise in crime and how the statistics jumped when your government did a gun grab.
    England is virtually gunless yet have the highest crime rate in the E.U. I guess that says how emboldened criminals are when they are fearful of robbing an armed citizen.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Android Central Forums
    05-14-2013 09:54 PM
  20. llamabreath's Avatar
    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Android Central Forums
    Are you and the hustleman brothers? You both have very similar avatars.

    05-14-2013 10:02 PM
  21. Aquila's Avatar
    Are you and the hustleman brothers? You both have very similar avatars.

    Guy holding a shotgun?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
    05-14-2013 10:02 PM
  22. Live2ride883's Avatar
    I won't dispute that society as a whole is in the gutter. My generation (I'm 28) has very little integrity, sense of work ethic, pride, respect for elders, or any level of decency. What we do have is a great amount of entitlement, concern with things such as American Idol, and very little desire to find things out on our own. Very few want to figure it out, would rather just be spoon fed and move along to the next feeding.

    You cannot dispute cold hard facts, I'm sorry.
    In some cases I agree with what you say about the people of your generation. But those qualities like integrity, pride, work ethic, and respect are or should be instilled in us by the examples of our parents, grandparents.

    My great uncle is currently 95 years old, works at least 10-12 hours a day, everyday except Sunday. He builds and restores furniture, the waiting list for a bedroom set is 6-8 months.

    I don't imagine he's planning on stopping anytime soon either.
    05-14-2013 10:09 PM
  23. Bob Sugar's Avatar
    In some cases I agree with what you say about the people of your generation. But those qualities like integrity, pride, work ethic, and respect are or should be instilled in us by the examples of our parents, grandparents.

    My great uncle is currently 95 years old, works at least 10-12 hours a day, everyday except Sunday. He builds and restores furniture, the waiting list for a bedroom set is 6-8 months.

    I don't imagine he's planning on stopping anytime soon either.
    While many people I once considered "friends" are worried about how much they can get paid under the table to cheat the system in order to pop bottles at the club on the weekend, while they go shopping with their bridge card on Sunday.

    Don't get me wrong, I love a good time, and can out party and out work the majority of them (in the same day). However, when you see this consistent ideology among people you know, across the country even, well I don't place a great deal of hope in the future of our country.
    majorpayne likes this.
    05-14-2013 10:24 PM
  24. llamabreath's Avatar
    Guy holding a shotgun?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
    yep

    05-14-2013 10:29 PM
  25. jdbii's Avatar
    I think we'd be hard pressed to find intelligent people that disagree on those points... which creates a foundation for, "what are our goals and how do we accomplish them". We need a mission to work towards to develop more cohesiveness and synergy.
    How do you envision the mission? Are you thinking something like a movement with a leader like Mahatma Gandhi or Martin Luther King?
    05-14-2013 10:57 PM
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