10-23-2013 04:26 PM
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  1. pappy53's Avatar
    Going back to that 2006 quote, where he opposed raising the debt limit, couldn't it then be argued that he was trying NOT to contribute to the problem? That he might have actually wanted to get to the root of it and solve it?
    And since he has been President, he doesn't want to get to the root of the problem? He has definitely contributed to it.
    10-09-2013 11:59 AM
  2. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    And since he has been President, he doesn't want to get to the root of the problem? He has definitely contributed to it.
    That's where differing opinions and ideas of WHAT the root of the problem are. A combination of many things, to be sure.
    10-09-2013 12:48 PM
  3. llamabreath's Avatar
    FACT:

    Since as far back as the 60's, EVERY TIME the debt limit was raised; it was met.

    How are we to expect the guy that said he would cut the deficit IN HALF (when he was campaigning back the first time around) but instead nearly DOUBLED it (from 9 trillion to 17 trillion) will not happily meet a higher debt limit?




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    10-09-2013 12:57 PM
  4. msndrstood's Avatar
    The deficit is the difference between the yearly budget and the shortfall in revenue. The debt is the accumulation of those deficits over time.

    http://home.adelphi.edu/sbloch/deficits.html

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    10-09-2013 01:07 PM
  5. llamabreath's Avatar
    The deficit is the difference between the yearly budget and the shortfall in revenue. The debt is the accumulation of those deficits over time.

    http://home.adelphi.edu/sbloch/deficits.html

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    Maybe i worded it wrong, but the point remains.



    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    10-09-2013 01:36 PM
  6. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    The deficit is the difference between the yearly budget and the shortfall in revenue. The debt is the accumulation of those deficits over time.

    U.S. Federal Deficits, Presidents, and Congress

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    You know what that chart tells me? We were fine until the Great Depression. :P

    Seriously, though, the comments on those different charts/tables are definitely a big help with understanding it. I encourage everyone to take a look at it, think about it, and then return to the conversation. I'm not going to ruin it by posting what's said about the amount of deficit accumulated by each President. Do note, also, that it's pointed out that the President doesn't have control over some of the stuff that affects that number.
    nolittdroid likes this.
    10-09-2013 01:53 PM
  7. msndrstood's Avatar
    And taxes were MUCH higher when we had lower deficits.

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    10-09-2013 02:49 PM
  8. Wiley_11's Avatar
    The deficit is the difference between the yearly budget and the shortfall in revenue. The debt is the accumulation of those deficits over time.
    Thanks!!! I especially like this part.
    "Obama took office in the middle of, by far, the biggest-deficit year in history, dealing with two wars and the most severe recession since the 1930's."

    This article is definitely a keeper, to show my knuckle dragging acquaintances......
    msndrstood and palandri like this.
    10-09-2013 03:07 PM
  9. Wiley_11's Avatar
    And taxes were MUCH higher when we had lower deficits.
    I don't recall any 400' *personal* yachts back in that period either......

    Edit: 590' as of 2013.
    palandri and msndrstood like this.
    10-09-2013 03:17 PM
  10. pappy53's Avatar
    And taxes were MUCH higher when we had lower deficits.

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    Actually, Reagan LOWERED taxes, and reduced the deficit.
    10-09-2013 03:36 PM
  11. msndrstood's Avatar
    So did Clinton, and had a surplus.

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    palandri likes this.
    10-09-2013 03:41 PM
  12. pappy53's Avatar
    So did Clinton, and had a surplus.

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    So why can't that be done now? Are Dems and Repubs so self-serving that they don't care?
    10-09-2013 03:47 PM
  13. msndrstood's Avatar
    Ask the 30 members of the House that want to bring the country to its knees. That would be a start.

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    palandri, Wiley_11 and nolittdroid like this.
    10-09-2013 03:49 PM
  14. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    So why can't that be done now? Are Dems and Repubs so self-serving that they don't care?
    Yes...

    Ask the 30 members of the House that want to bring the country to its knees. That would be a start.

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    ...and yes




    I think they (all sides) have the mentality that they're right no matter what, and because of that they don't want to actually broker a deal to end the shenanigans.
    10-09-2013 03:53 PM
  15. palandri's Avatar
    Actually, Reagan LOWERED taxes, and reduced the deficit.
    We are suppose to have a progressive tax system, the more you make the more you pay. We learned in the last election that it starts out progressive and then becomes regressive, the more you make the less you pay. This was brought to light by Warren Buffett noting he pays a smaller percentage of his income to taxes than his secretary, so did Mitt Romney. Even a flat tax would be fairer at this point in time.
    10-09-2013 03:55 PM
  16. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Even a flat tax would be fairer at this point in time.
    The Fair Tax would be best, though.
    10-09-2013 03:57 PM
  17. pappy53's Avatar
    Ask the 30 members of the House that want to bring the country to its knees. That would be a start.

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    And Harry Reid.
    10-09-2013 04:14 PM
  18. msndrstood's Avatar
    Nothing Harry Reid could do would change anything as long as the The Gang of 30 has Boehner by the tender parts.

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    10-09-2013 04:17 PM
  19. Wiley_11's Avatar
    So did Clinton, and had a surplus.
    You forgot the 22 million jobs he created!...... lol lol
    msndrstood likes this.
    10-09-2013 05:12 PM
  20. pappy53's Avatar
    Nothing Harry Reid could do would change anything as long as the The Gang of 30 has Boehner by the tender parts.

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    He could get some of the bills passed that the House has sent over, such as paying death benefits to military families. He won't even look at them, and that is despicable as it concerns the death benefits.
    He could also present the House suggestions of no congressional exemptions on Obamacare, and the inclusion of individual delays for one year on Obamacare, but he won't negotiate. So a lot of this is Reid's fault, also.
    10-09-2013 05:14 PM
  21. pappy53's Avatar
    You forgot the 22 million jobs he created!...... lol lol
    So, why not today?
    10-09-2013 05:18 PM
  22. msndrstood's Avatar
    Yes, why not? You keep forgetting about that contingent in the House.

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    10-09-2013 05:22 PM
  23. Wiley_11's Avatar
    Actually, Reagan LOWERED taxes, and reduced the deficit.
    Sure looks like Reagan added to the deficit to me.....



    Table 3: Average change in annual deficit
    President political party change in deficit
    B.H.Obama Democrat -$589,515,796,253
    G.W.Bush Republican $803,424,990,821
    G.W.Bush
    first 7 years Republican $397,130,927,169
    W.J.Clinton Democrat -$164,787,361,848
    G.H.W.Bush Republican $34,326,854,936
    R.Reagan Republican $106,541,043,476
    J.Carter Democrat -$4,328,272,827
    G.Ford Republican $69,190,733,924
    R.M.Nixon Republican $17,581,577,773
    L.B.Johnson Democrat -$2,146,225,006
    J.F.Kennedy Democrat $10,051,478,109
    D.D.Eisenhower Republican -$17,259,422,929
    10-09-2013 05:58 PM
  24. Wiley_11's Avatar
    So, why not today?

    Maybe because of the $803,424,990,821 deficit when gw left office. Plus driving the economy into the ditch(2008 Recession) and having to bail out the banksters? Just a guess.
    10-09-2013 06:12 PM
  25. llamabreath's Avatar
    Who here is better off today than when Bush was in office?

    Be honest.





    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    10-09-2013 06:15 PM
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