10-23-2013 04:26 PM
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  1. Wiley_11's Avatar
    Who here is better off today than when Bush was in office?
    With the deficit down -$589,515,796,253 since the new guy took office, I would say everybody in the country is better off......
    10-09-2013 06:24 PM
  2. llamabreath's Avatar
    With the deficit down -$589,515,796,253 since the new guy took office, I would say everybody in the country is better off......
    I'm talking individually.

    Each of you.





    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    10-09-2013 06:27 PM
  3. msndrstood's Avatar
    We are, because I just paid off two cars.

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    10-09-2013 06:31 PM
  4. asanatheist's Avatar
    We are, because I just paid off two cars.

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    We're better off too. Not working for a company, we have our own family business that is growing yearly.
    10-09-2013 06:34 PM
  5. msndrstood's Avatar
    Seriously, it's tough for me because I had to quit working in 2002, so our finances took a 50% hit for the next seven years until my husband could collect his pension to offset the lost wages. But, honestly, it's difficult to say, our house value isn't what it was, but our IRA was doing pretty good until about a month ago.

    So how is it worse for you? Of course, I'm assuming you think you're worse off. I'm not being sarcastic, I just know we're on opposite sides of the fence.

    It is important to remember the end of the Bush era and the beginning of Obama were the pits for everyone.

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    palandri likes this.
    10-09-2013 06:39 PM
  6. Wiley_11's Avatar
    I'm talking individually.
    I did great before,during and after Shrub. Life is good here.....
    10-09-2013 06:54 PM
  7. llamabreath's Avatar
    Seriously, it's tough for me because I had to quit working in 2002, so our finances took a 50% hit for the next seven years until my husband could collect his pension to offset the lost wages. But, honestly, it's difficult to say, our house value isn't what it was, but our IRA was doing pretty good until about a month ago.

    So how is it worse for you? Of course, I'm assuming you think you're worse off. I'm not being sarcastic, I just know we're on opposite sides of the fence.

    It is important to remember the end of the Bush era and the beginning of Obama were the pits for everyone.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free
    To tell you the truth...

    Financially, my life's sucked since i moved down south from N.Y.C. a few years ago. I'm making less than half what i made up there.

    Everyone always says that the cost of living is less here, but it's really only the real estate, property taxes and gas. Everything else is the same or even higher.




    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    10-09-2013 06:57 PM
  8. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I'm doing better, but I don't blame Bush or Obama for it. I blame my own hard work.
    10-10-2013 12:09 AM
  9. JW4VZW's Avatar
    That only applies if you're a plebeian tax payer and the rules do not apply to you!

    ✌SG3/iPad2
    That is very true. It seems like the more you follow the law, the more you get punished.
    10-10-2013 01:19 PM
  10. JW4VZW's Avatar
    To tell you the truth...

    Financially, my life's sucked since i moved down south from N.Y.C. a few years ago. I'm making less than half what i made up there.

    Everyone always says that the cost of living is less here, but it's really only the real estate, property taxes and gas. Everything else is the same or even higher.




    •• Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    It is not cheap in the south. I live outside Virginia Beach right now. Where do you live at if you don't mind my asking? Sure, property is cheaper, but so are the wages.
    10-10-2013 01:21 PM
  11. llamabreath's Avatar
    It is not cheap in the south. I live outside Virginia Beach right now. Where do you live at if you don't mind my asking? Sure, property is cheaper, but so are the wages.
    Atlanta.
    And that's what i was saying.

    I make less than half what i made in New York, doing similar work (fiber-optics).

    Only three things cheaper down south -

    Property
    Property taxes
    Gasoline

    (oh, and strip clubs, but you didn't hear that from me)





    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    10-10-2013 01:29 PM
  12. JW4VZW's Avatar
    At least we have him on record as saying that he would totally disregard the law if he thought it was "the right thing to do". I'm not saying I disagree with taking care of your unit, but we have the UCMJ for a reason. He got off easy IMO with just an article 15 and $5,000 fine, when it could've been much MUCH worse.

    And I DO have a service history, that I'm not going to go in here, but someone not having a military career doesn't mean they can't comment on things that happen in the military. If that's going to be your argument then I hope you're a professional politician.
    As a combat veteran, I know what kind of stress that they were under. All I was implying was that sometimes in the field you have to take a different route to get something. What Colonel West is on record as saying is "If it's about the lives of my soldiers at stake, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can" and "I know the method I used was not right, but I wanted to take care of my soldiers." I would never hesitate to serve under an officer who placed his men above himself and his career, and I have served under some pretty good officers. I am sure that if Colonel West were not a minority, he might have spent the next few years at Leavenworth.
    Besides, we don't have to agree with his political views to agree that it is important to look out for your subordinates in the field. We are both veterans after all, right?
    Also, I will not reply to your jab at me having a career as a professional politician. I prefer to earn my living honestly.
    10-10-2013 01:42 PM
  13. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    As a combat veteran, I know what kind of stress that they were under. All I was implying was that sometimes in the field you have to take a different route to get something. What Colonel West is on record as saying is "If it's about the lives of my soldiers at stake, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can" and "I know the method I used was not right, but I wanted to take care of my soldiers." I would never hesitate to serve under an officer who placed his men above himself and his career, and I have served under some pretty good officers. I am sure that if Colonel West were not a minority, he might have spent the next few years at Leavenworth.
    Besides, we don't have to agree with his political views to agree that it is important to look out for your subordinates in the field. We are both veterans after all, right?
    Also, I will not reply to your jab at me having a career as a professional politician. I prefer to earn my living honestly.
    Oh it wasn't a jab at all, it was a counterpoint to you taking exception to someone that lacked military service commenting on a military issue. None of us here are politicians (to the best of my knowledge), yet here we are commenting on it.

    I do agree that in the heat of the moment you make decisions based on the circumstances, but it did appear (from my limited reading) that they weren't under attack at the moment this happened, and that things maybe could have happened differently while maintaining the safety of his soldiers and not endangering his career. But again, I didn't do TOO much reading on it, so my thoughts and conclusions could be off.
    10-10-2013 01:55 PM
  14. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Oh it wasn't a jab at all, it was a counterpoint to you taking exception to someone that lacked military service commenting on a military issue. None of us here are politicians (to the best of my knowledge), yet here we are commenting on it.

    I do agree that in the heat of the moment you make decisions based on the circumstances, but it did appear (from my limited reading) that they weren't under attack at the moment this happened, and that things maybe could have happened differently while maintaining the safety of his soldiers and not endangering his career. But again, I didn't do TOO much reading on it, so my thoughts and conclusions could be off.
    Thank you for clarification sir. I thought that he had information that there was a planned ambush on his unit, but I am not 100% certain so do not hold me to this. You did peak my curiosity however. I plan on looking this up when I get home from work. As you said, "in the heat of the moment you make decisions based on the circumstances." Put into perspective, if I heard that my wife and family's lives were in danger, I would probably do the same thing that Colonel West did.
    Kevin OQuinn likes this.
    10-10-2013 02:29 PM
  15. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Atlanta.
    And that's what i was saying.

    I make less than half what i made in New York, doing similar work (fiber-optics).

    Only three things cheaper down south -

    Property
    Property taxes
    Gasoline

    (oh, and strip clubs, but you didn't hear that from me)





    •• Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    Your posts always make me laugh! How do you like Atlanta? It seems if you make less than half of what you did in New York, you are coming out behind. Even with cheaper property, property taxes, gasoline and strip clubs, you will still pay about the same for food and necessary supplies at the grocery store.
    10-10-2013 02:31 PM
  16. llamabreath's Avatar
    Your posts always make me laugh! How do you like Atlanta? It seems if you make less than half of what you did in New York, you are coming out behind. Even with cheaper property, property taxes, gasoline and strip clubs, you will still pay about the same for food and necessary supplies at the grocery store.


    Yep, i AM coming out behind.... way behind, even with my wife working a seriously good job too.

    As for how am i liking Atlanta?

    It's "okay".
    That's for another thread, lol.




    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    10-10-2013 02:46 PM
  17. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Thank you for clarification sir. I thought that he had information that there was a planned ambush on his unit, but I am not 100% certain so do not hold me to this. You did peak my curiosity however. I plan on looking this up when I get home from work. As you said, "in the heat of the moment you make decisions based on the circumstances." Put into perspective, if I heard that my wife and family's lives were in danger, I would probably do the same thing that Colonel West did.
    I think the difference between a planned ambush and an attack happening RIGHT NOW is that one is the threat of imminent danger while one is a combat situation. As you know, ROE treats those two situations VERY different. But like you said, I would need to do more research into the specific situation. The quick read on wikipedia (yeah, i know) led me to believe he had some information that the enemy may have been planning an ambush, so they captured someone and "got the relevant information" for lack of a better term. IMO, if that's the case, there are other ways to get that information, but maybe it was time sensitive. Who knows, so many moving parts in something like that it's hard to say for sure without being there. I do trust the Court Martial, though, in that they looked at all the facts and exercised sound and reasonable judgment, which leads me to believe it wasn't a "bad call" per se, but probably was looked at as "you could've done better". Does that all make sense?
    10-10-2013 03:11 PM
  18. msndrstood's Avatar
    Thank you for clarification sir. I thought that he had information that there was a planned ambush on his unit, but I am not 100% certain so do not hold me to this. You did peak my curiosity however. I plan on looking this up when I get home from work. As you said, "in the heat of the moment you make decisions based on the circumstances." Put into perspective, if I heard that my wife and family's lives were in danger, I would probably do the same thing that Colonel West did.
    Interesting how differently you responded to Kevin. Interesting.

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    palandri and Wiley_11 like this.
    10-10-2013 03:28 PM
  19. JW4VZW's Avatar


    Yep, i AM coming out behind.... way behind, even with my wife working a seriously good job too.

    As for how am i liking Atlanta?

    It's "okay".
    That's for another thread, lol.




    •• Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    I hear you. And they say money does not buy happiness.
    10-10-2013 03:46 PM
  20. JW4VZW's Avatar
    I think the difference between a planned ambush and an attack happening RIGHT NOW is that one is the threat of imminent danger while one is a combat situation. As you know, ROE treats those two situations VERY different. But like you said, I would need to do more research into the specific situation. The quick read on wikipedia (yeah, i know) led me to believe he had some information that the enemy may have been planning an ambush, so they captured someone and "got the relevant information" for lack of a better term. IMO, if that's the case, there are other ways to get that information, but maybe it was time sensitive. Who knows, so many moving parts in something like that it's hard to say for sure without being there. I do trust the Court Martial, though, in that they looked at all the facts and exercised sound and reasonable judgment, which leads me to believe it wasn't a "bad call" per se, but probably was looked at as "you could've done better". Does that all make sense?
    Should he have acted differently? Sure, he probably should have forwarded the information to intelligence. However, if time was of the essence then there might have not have been enough time as you said. You are correct sir, none of us know what happened there as we were not there. Any combat veteran has my respect. I do understand, he could have done better. But what if he did take the proper steps and forward the information up? As I previously said, I would never hesitate to serve under an officer who placed his men above himself and his career. I would rather have an officer like that than one who covers his back and lies.
    10-10-2013 04:38 PM
  21. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Interesting how differently you responded to Kevin. Interesting.

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    Kevin does not lash out at me for my political views, unlike you...
    10-10-2013 04:40 PM
  22. msndrstood's Avatar
    Kevin does not lash out at me for my political views, unlike you...
    And vice versa.

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    10-10-2013 04:42 PM
  23. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Interesting how differently you responded to Kevin. Interesting.

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    Kevin does not lash out at me for my political views, unlike you...
    And vice versa.

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    We're having a good chat, let's try to keep that going please.
    10-10-2013 05:52 PM
  24. msndrstood's Avatar
    Bowing out.

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    10-10-2013 05:55 PM
  25. llamabreath's Avatar
    Bowing out.

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    If you bow back in, I'll post a picture that you'll LOVE.




    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    10-10-2013 08:54 PM
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