01-28-2014 11:20 PM
249 ... 34567 ...
tools
  1. qxr's Avatar
    Nope, passed by a filibuster proof 60 votes in the Senate, not by reconciliation.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patie...dable_Care_Act

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free
    That was the shell. The mass. Senator brown was sworn in and could not. Actual bill never went back to the senate because of senator brown.

    Green with envy how is the note 3.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    10-05-2013 08:57 PM
  2. msndrstood's Avatar
    It's a beautiful device. Worth the wait. :-)

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free
    qxr and cdmjlt369 like this.
    10-05-2013 09:06 PM
  3. msndrstood's Avatar
    Well, there's this...

    http://boingboing.net/2013/10/03/dis...hours-for.html

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free
    10-05-2013 09:17 PM
  4. qxr's Avatar
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-new-bill.html

    UK is straining under the free health care for illegals ...Americans should know how bad it is here...oh yeah our press does not have the guts to tell those stories anymore
    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    cdmjlt369 and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-06-2013 01:28 PM
  5. palandri's Avatar
    End of free NHS care for migrants under new bill - Telegraph

    UK is straining under the free health care for illegals ...Americans should know how bad it is here...oh yeah our press does not have the guts to tell those stories anymore
    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    I hate to tell you this because I know you oppose the ACA. That actually shows you how cost effective national healthcare is. The UK pays half of what we do for healthcare (our GNP% compared to their GNP% spend towards healthcare) and they cover everyone, including illegal immigrants and health tourist.
    Fairclough likes this.
    10-06-2013 02:21 PM
  6. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    I hate to tell you this because I know you oppose the ACA. That actually shows you how cost effective national healthcare is. The UK pays half of what we do for healthcare (our GNP% compared to their GNP% spend towards healthcare) and they cover everyone, including illegal immigrants and health tourist.
    No way its cost effective. I have run my numbers through it and everything more than doubled. As is the case for several other people I know. On top of that, taxes are being implemented too. So I would be paying a ridiculous premium for sub par insurance and care on top of being taxed for it. And by the way, we would have far more non-working/illegal, non paying people to cover.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-06-2013 02:33 PM
  7. qxr's Avatar
    I hate to tell you this because I know you oppose the ACA. That actually shows you how cost effective national healthcare is. The UK pays half of what we do for healthcare (our GNP% compared to their GNP% spend towards healthcare) and they cover everyone, including illegal immigrants and health tourist.
    I oppose obamacare because it did nothing to address the fixable problems we face in medicine. Limited numbers of insurance carriers per state stifles competition, no tort reform so doctors have to order more tests or risk being sued (not referring to real medical malpractice), medical device tax for what purpose, money immediately pulled from medicare for mental health and put into medicaid, why. Then there is the simple fact we cannot afford this bill. We need a good economy and with corp taxes and this bill we are telling businesses go elsewhere.
    You should see the phones many of the "uninsured" carry. Just sayin' not everyone spends money responsibly but now we are picking up the tab for everything. A hand up is a good thing but a handout breeds dependency.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-06-2013 03:04 PM
  8. SteveISU's Avatar
    I oppose obamacare because it did nothing to address the fixable problems we face in medicine. Limited numbers of insurance carriers per state stifles competition, no tort reform so doctors have to order more tests or risk being sued (not referring to real medical malpractice), medical device tax for what purpose, money immediately pulled from medicare for mental health and put into medicaid, why. Then there is the simple fact we cannot afford this bill. We need a good economy and with corp taxes and this bill we are telling businesses go elsewhere.
    You should see the phones many of the "uninsured" carry. Just sayin' not everyone spends money responsibly but now we are picking up the tab for everything. A hand up is a good thing but a handout breeds dependency.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app

    I don't believe tort reform will amount to much in cost savings. 12 states have it and costs have not come down in those states. The problem lies in the fact that the standard of care in many facets, also has built into it how not to get sued. Doctors are not all of a sudden gonna change the way the practice because of caps. I think we've seen first hand how doctors perform more test simply because many can be done in the office and allow them to capture that revenue instead of letting someone else get it. I've said it a million times, unless those of us in healthcare change drastically, we shouldn't be surprised when the hammer gets slammed and we have serious cost regulations put in place.

    As far as those comparing it to medicare, don't. Medicare is artificially priced low, it's not even an apples to apples comparison.
    10-07-2013 12:07 PM
  9. Fairclough's Avatar
    No way its cost effective. I have run my numbers through it and everything more than doubled. As is the case for several other people I know. On top of that, taxes are being implemented too. So I would be paying a ridiculous premium for sub par insurance and care on top of being taxed for it. And by the way, we would have far more non-working/illegal, non paying people to cover.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Actually both as percentage of government revenue and GDP universal health in the UK, Australia etc are cheaper than what the US Gov spends, let along with the additional costs of citizens.

    *CRIKEY*
    palandri and msndrstood like this.
    10-09-2013 07:21 AM
  10. Bratigan's Avatar
    The fact that the exchanges don't work and numbers are not being released as well as the sentiment that this was forced on the American people suggests that this was a mistake from point zero.
    This could have been handle much more in line with free markets and making adjustments to preexisting conditions. This is just failed commie and socialist thinking that will fail just like all the other attempts. The fact that this legislation starts in the Senate dooms it eventually as all spending bills and taxes must originate in the House.

    I don't compare our health system with any one other country because I feel we have the best. People come here for advanced treatment before most anywhere else. This all boils down to the president forcing his pretend legacy on us. We will just have to struggle to free ourselves from its bondage as we have in the past with other issues. God Bless American, notice I didn't include any other nations here.
    qxr, cdmjlt369 and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-09-2013 09:22 AM
  11. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Actually both as percentage of government revenue and GDP universal health in the UK, Australia etc are cheaper than what the US Gov spends, let along with the additional costs of citizens.

    *CRIKEY*
    I've seen the arguments about the Obamacare costs as a percentage of GDP and I want to know what that has to do with anything. From my point of view, it's like buying a car for ten times its real worth. Doesn't matter if your income is $20k or $2M a year, it's still a bad purchase. This is a new one on me, and I'm open to being educated.
    cdmjlt369 and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-09-2013 09:23 AM
  12. Fairclough's Avatar
    This thread was really designed about educating on the free health system, but i will endure.
    It has to do with everything, if everyone gets health care lets say it will cost 20k instead of your example 2million. How is that bad?

    Now I will use actual figures.USA spends 17.6% of its GDP on health care for a service which does not cover everyone, Canada 11.5 covers everyone, UK 9.6 (with NHS - every med about $12) Japan 9.5 (WHO HAS THE BEST SYSTEM!), Australia 9.1.

    BY transferring to a free system or a dual system, not only are the costs nearly halved in total, everyone has access to the exact same quality if not better in the united states. So yes I do see how it is reliant the cost. Why pay 2 million for essentials when you can spend 20k?
    msndrstood likes this.
    10-09-2013 05:22 PM
  13. llamabreath's Avatar
    This thread was really designed about educating on the free health system, but i will endure.
    It has to do with everything, if everyone gets health care lets say it will cost 20k instead of your example 2million. How is that bad?

    Now I will use actual figures.USA spends 17.6% of its GDP on health care for a service which does not cover everyone, Canada 11.5 covers everyone, UK 9.6 (with NHS - every med about $12) Japan 9.5 (WHO HAS THE BEST SYSTEM!), Australia 9.1.

    BY transferring to a free system or a dual system, not only are the costs nearly halved in total, everyone has access to the exact same quality if not better in the united states. So yes I do see how it is reliant the cost. Why pay 2 million for essentials when you can spend 20k?
    If Obamacare is such a smart idea, cost-feasible system, why did he allow SIX HUNDRED FORTY THREE MILLION dollars over three years to be spent just designing the damn website for it (which, by the way, doesn't exactly work as intended).

    I used to design websites for millions less.




    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-09-2013 08:07 PM
  14. msndrstood's Avatar
    Danny, is there anything you won't pick apart from the post 5 1/2 years? The man is not the anti Christ that the Right portrays him as. Even Bush 43 had same redeeming values. He was funny.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free
    10-09-2013 08:11 PM
  15. gollum18's Avatar
    If Obamacare is such a smart idea, cost-feasible system, why did he allow SIX HUNDRED FORTY THREE MILLION dollars over three years to be spent just designing the damn website for it (which, by the way, doesn't exactly work as intended).

    I used to design websites for millions less.




    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    Lol, I dont know about you, but other than server costs, it doesn't cost me anything to develop a website

    Still I didn't know they spent that much on it. And it really is embarrassing it doesn't work for all that money.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    10-09-2013 08:48 PM
  16. msndrstood's Avatar
    Of course, it's Obama's fault. He didn't write clean code.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free
    10-09-2013 09:41 PM
  17. Mooncatt's Avatar
    This thread was really designed about educating on the free health system, but i will endure.
    It has to do with everything, if everyone gets health care lets say it will cost 20k instead of your example 2million. How is that bad?

    Now I will use actual figures.USA spends 17.6% of its GDP on health care for a service which does not cover everyone, Canada 11.5 covers everyone, UK 9.6 (with NHS - every med about $12) Japan 9.5 (WHO HAS THE BEST SYSTEM!), Australia 9.1.

    BY transferring to a free system or a dual system, not only are the costs nearly halved in total, everyone has access to the exact same quality if not better in the united states. So yes I do see how it is reliant the cost. Why pay 2 million for essentials when you can spend 20k?
    You got my analogy wrong. The $20K vs $20M was income (analogous to the GDP), and the car was the overpriced purchase (what I feel healthcare would be). If the car is worth $5,000, it isn't wise to buy it for $50K no matter how much money you make. Same thing with healthcare in my opinion.

    And look at those countries that do offer "free" healthcare. Their taxes to pay for that free item are outrageous.
    qxr and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-09-2013 11:57 PM
  18. Fairclough's Avatar
    You got my analogy wrong. The $20K vs $20M was income (analogous to the GDP), and the car was the overpriced purchase (what I feel healthcare would be). If the car is worth $5,000, it isn't wise to buy it for $50K no matter how much money you make. Same thing with healthcare in my opinion.

    And look at those countries that do offer "free" healthcare. Their taxes to pay for that free item are outrageous.
    Danny I was talking g about universal not Obama. Its cheaper for each individual for free health care and cheaper for the government! I don't see your point, the us system is the overpriced option in comparison to universal. For the total cost universal is cheaper too. No our tax's are not much higher. We are in the bottom 1/3 of the rate of taxa we pay for developed nations.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    10-10-2013 06:48 AM
  19. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Danny I was talking g about universal not Obama. Its cheaper for each individual for free health care and cheaper for the government! I don't see your point, the us system is the overpriced option in comparison to universal. For the total cost universal is cheaper too. No our tax's are not much higher. We are in the bottom 1/3 of the rate of taxa we pay for developed nations.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    The US system is also the only system in the world where anyone can walk into a doctors office/hospital and immediately scheduled whatever kind of test or procedure they want for the same week. Other places around the world procedures are based on "need". In those countries, if your not dying they will get you in in a few months. In the US, "How about we fill you in tomorrow?"

    In order for healthcare to be cheap, it has to be controlled. This control comes with limits. Limits that are not currently present in the US system and is why wealthy people from other countries routinely come to the US for treatment.
    qxr and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-10-2013 07:06 AM
  20. qxr's Avatar
    Which is why I know of Canadian citizens flying in to Miami to see a nephrologist for kidney stone treatment. When they were diagnosed the treatment was scheduled for the next day. Also, I regularly see Canadians coming to Florida for chemo. Some of these drugs are very expensive and not readily available on socialized medicine systems.
    Think taxes are not high in Canada to pay for it...then why does every nhl player raded to a canadian team ask for tax compensation.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-10-2013 07:27 AM
  21. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Danny I was talking g about universal not Obama. Its cheaper for each individual for free health care and cheaper for the government! I don't see your point, the us system is the overpriced option in comparison to universal. For the total cost universal is cheaper too. No our tax's are not much higher. We are in the bottom 1/3 of the rate of taxa we pay for developed nations.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    Just think how much less taxes would be if healthcare wasn't free.

    You still didn't address my main point of why healthcare costs compared to GDP is a valid argument. Let's say hypothetically that going to a universal system does somehow lower healthcare costs. There are still too many variables affecting both the cost of healthcare and what the GDP is to make a direct comparison to the two. Heck, GDP has to go down to some extent overall, logically. To pay for this new free service, taxes have to go up to offset the cost. There's no way around it. That will cause businesses to move out, lower the workforce, or simply try to absorb the added costs and leave less capital to reinvest or pay better. Whatever the case, more money is taken out of the economy to pay for this "free" thing.
    qxr and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-10-2013 07:30 AM
  22. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    There are many reasons the US system is "overpriced". First off, we have the best doctors and services. The old saying, "you get what you pay for " comes to mind. Then we have a problem with frivolous lawsuits. Also, as was mentioned, we turn no one away for emergency care. You walk in an emergency room, you get treated. We have a problem unlike other countries we have so many illegals here. Illegal immigrants can walk right in an emergency room and get treatment. That also affects costs.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-10-2013 07:42 AM
  23. palandri's Avatar
    The US system is also the only system in the world where anyone can walk into a doctors office/hospital and immediately scheduled whatever kind of test or procedure they want for the same week. Other places around the world procedures are based on "need". In those countries, if your not dying they will get you in in a few months. In the US, "How about we fill you in tomorrow?"

    In order for healthcare to be cheap, it has to be controlled. This control comes with limits. Limits that are not currently present in the US system and is why wealthy people from other countries routinely come to the US for treatment.
    There's a lot spuriousness in those statements. Providing you have insurance or a lot of $$$, one can schedule a procedure. Here's a page devoted to a kid in my neighborhood. He's dead now. He had a heart attack a few years ago. He had no health insurance. His mother was mad they wouldn't do more than just tell him he had a heart attack. A few years later he had a stroke and died. Seth Davies Memorial Website (1971-2013) All procedures anywhere are done on need. It only makes sense. What's your logic here? I have money, so I should go first?

    I've also read articles where people from the U.S., who were denied health insurance due to a preexisting condition, have went to Mexico and Costa Rica for procedures due to the cost savings.
    msndrstood likes this.
    10-10-2013 07:46 AM
  24. palandri's Avatar
    There are many reasons the US system is "overpriced". First off, we have the best doctors and services. The old saying, "you get what you pay for " comes to mind. Then we have a problem with frivolous lawsuits. Also, as was mentioned, we turn no one away for emergency care. You walk in an emergency room, you get treated. We have a problem unlike other countries we have so many illegals here. Illegal immigrants can walk right in an emergency room and get treatment. That also affects costs.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    That statement is like me saying the Bears are the best football players in the world. You really need to look at facts. Check out WHO (World Health Organization) Look at how they ranked healthcare systems around the world in the past. Look at where the U.S. ranked and look at where other countries with national healthcare ranked.
    10-10-2013 07:51 AM
  25. qxr's Avatar
    That statement is like me saying the Bears are the best football players in the world. You really need to look at facts. Check out WHO (World Health Organization) Look at how they ranked healthcare systems around the world. Look at where the U.S. ranked and look at where other countries with national healthcare ranked.
    Look at where those who can go anywhere go for treatment. Heads of state, generally come here. It is not so they can pay more. It is the standard of care is high.
    We are by no means perfect but a foreigner having a m.i. here stands a much better chance of survival.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    cdmjlt369 and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-10-2013 07:59 AM
249 ... 34567 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Importing S-Health Data
    By consultant2b in forum Samsung Galaxy S4
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-31-2014, 08:51 PM
  2. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-22-2013, 10:54 AM
  3. Universal TV and dvd remote
    By mcookson in forum General Help and How To
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-13-2013, 12:31 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-10-2013, 06:13 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD