01-28-2014 11:20 PM
249 ... 45678 ...
tools
  1. NoYankees44's Avatar
    There's a lot spuriousness in those statements. Providing you have insurance or a lot of $$$, one can schedule a procedure. Here's a page devoted to a kid in my neighborhood. He's dead now. He had a heart attack a few years ago. He had no health insurance. His mother was mad they wouldn't do more than just tell him he had a heart attack. A few years later he had a stroke and died. Seth Davies Memorial Website (1971-2013) All procedures anywhere are done on need. It only makes sense. What's your logic here? I have money, so I should go first?

    I've also read articles where people from the U.S., who were denied health insurance due to a preexisting condition, have went to Mexico and Costa Rica for procedures due to the cost savings.
    That "kid" was 42 years old. And no hospital in this country will refuse to save someones life. Treatment after they are stable yes may come into question. While I do feel sorry for this man and his love ones, tragedy happens every single day. The government should not be expected to try and alleviate every single bad thing that happens in this world. Where were this guy's family? Did he not have a good job? Was there not someone else that could have helped him out? Community chip in? He was obviously well known. My point is the answer is not always to require all the tax payers in the country to pay for something. People should help those around them when they can. If people choose not to help those around them, then it is not the government's job to force them to.

    The idea is you work hard so you can afford the luxury of good insurance. Those that are incapable are covered by government programs. Everyone that is capable to work for their healthcare is expected to.
    qxr and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-10-2013 08:29 AM
  2. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    That statement is like me saying the Bears are the best football players in the world. You really need to look at facts. Check out WHO (World Health Organization) Look at how they ranked healthcare systems around the world in the past. Look at where the U.S. ranked and look at where other countries with national healthcare ranked.
    I was speaking of quality of care being relevant to pricing. People come to theUS for a reason.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-10-2013 08:35 AM
  3. palandri's Avatar
    Look at where those who can go anywhere go for treatment. Heads of state, generally come here. It is not so they can pay more. It is the standard of care is high.
    We are by no means perfect but a foreigner having a m.i. here stands a much better chance of survival.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    I think you mean those that can afford to go anywhere. That suggest to me an elitist model of healthcare. Sure people from other countries go to the Mayo Clinic/Hospital for specialty treatment. There are also other countries that people go to for specialty treatment. I know that years ago people with throat cancer were going to Japan because they perfected rebuilding the voice box with cartilage from other parts of the body.
    10-10-2013 09:34 AM
  4. palandri's Avatar
    That "kid" was 42 years old. And no hospital in this country will refuse to save someones life. Treatment after they are stable yes may come into question. While I do feel sorry for this man and his love ones, tragedy happens every single day. The government should not be expected to try and alleviate every single bad thing that happens in this world. Where were this guy's family? Did he not have a good job? Was there not someone else that could have helped him out? Community chip in? He was obviously well known. My point is the answer is not always to require all the tax payers in the country to pay for something. People should help those around them when they can. If people choose not to help those around them, then it is not the government's job to force them to.

    The idea is you work hard so you can afford the luxury of good insurance. Those that are incapable are covered by government programs. Everyone that is capable to work for their healthcare is expected to.
    It's the governments job to do what is in the best interest of the people in this country. I think Obama is doing what's in the best interest of the people of this country. I think the Republicans are doing what's in the best interest of private ownership in this country. What was the number one cause of bankruptcy in the U.S.? Could it be medical bills? How much of our GNP goes towards healthcare? How can the UK spent half of what we do and cover everyone?
    msndrstood and Fairclough like this.
    10-10-2013 09:42 AM
  5. palandri's Avatar
    I was speaking of quality of care being relevant to pricing. People come to theUS for a reason.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    You left out those that can afford too. You're suggesting an elitist model of healthcare. Do you think people from Haiti, who are just south of our border, who make $2 a day can afford to come to the U.S. for healthcare?
    Fairclough and msndrstood like this.
    10-10-2013 09:45 AM
  6. NoYankees44's Avatar
    It's the governments job to do what is in the best interest of the people in this country. I think Obama is doing what's in the best interest of the people of this country. I think the Republicans are doing what's in the best interest of private ownership in this country. What was the number one cause of bankruptcy in the U.S.? Could it be medical bills? How much of our GNP goes towards healthcare? How can the UK spent half of what we do and cover everyone?
    You mean this amazing UK healthcare:
    UK healthcare on brink of collapse ? NHS regulator ? RT News

    Public Health Care in UK Faces Major Problems

    The United Kingdom Health Care System: Views and Experiences of Adults with Health Problems - The Commonwealth Fund

    Basically the UK is rationing back all the services and the general capacity of its public healthcare because it is unsustainable with current funding. Hospitals being forced to take away beds so that they cannot serve as many. Items such as hip replacements no longer being covered. Ect. ect.

    Systems like this are not sustainable long term. The math just does not work out. And in a country like the US where the bottom 50% of earners effectively pay no federal income tax, there is no way you can provide something like this. You eventually run out of other people's money.
    qxr and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-10-2013 10:08 AM
  7. palandri's Avatar
    You mean this amazing UK healthcare:
    UK healthcare on brink of collapse ? NHS regulator ? RT News

    Public Health Care in UK Faces Major Problems

    The United Kingdom Health Care System: Views and Experiences of Adults with Health Problems - The Commonwealth Fund

    Basically the UK is rationing back all the services and the general capacity of its public healthcare because it is unsustainable with current funding. Hospitals being forced to take away beds so that they cannot serve as many. Items such as hip replacements no longer being covered. Ect. ect.

    Systems like this are not sustainable long term. The math just does not work out. And in a country like the US where the bottom 50% of earners effectively pay no federal income tax, there is no way you can provide something like this. You eventually run out of other people's money.
    Do you know how long the NHS has been in the UK? 1948 comes to mind. So they hit a bump in the road and they are making adjustments to rectify the issues. They aren't dumping NHS.

    To say it's unsustainable is Ted Cruz and Michele Bachmann nonsense.
    Fairclough and msndrstood like this.
    10-10-2013 10:23 AM
  8. SteveISU's Avatar
    It's the governments job to do what is in the best interest of the people in this country. I think Obama is doing what's in the best interest of the people of this country. I think the Republicans are doing what's in the best interest of private ownership in this country. What was the number one cause of bankruptcy in the U.S.? Could it be medical bills? How much of our GNP goes towards healthcare? How can the UK spent half of what we do and cover everyone?
    The latest study I read showed reviewed all the bankruptcy filing with the justice department and medical debt accounted for only 12-13% of all the debts shown. Everyone cites the Harvard study which was co-authored by Elizabeth Warren a former Obama Admin official and current Mass Senator. Go read the study and you'll find out that Warren's team classified a filing as a medical bankruptcy whenever unpaid medical bills were resolved through bankruptcy proceedings , even if other debts were far bigger contributors to insolvency. In the end medical spending was only a factor in a person's bankruptcy in 17% of the cases. Don't read everything at face value and consider the authors and their potential motivation.
    qxr and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-10-2013 10:26 AM
  9. qxr's Avatar
    The latest study I read showed reviewed all the bankruptcy filing with the justice department and medical debt accounted for only 12-13% of all the debts shown. Everyone cites the Harvard study which was co-authored by Elizabeth Warren a former Obama Admin official and current Mass Senator. Go read the study and you'll find out that Warren's team classified a filing as a medical bankruptcy whenever unpaid medical bills were resolved through bankruptcy proceedings , even if other debts were far bigger contributors to insolvency. In the end medical spending was only a factor in a person's bankruptcy in 17% of the cases. Don't read everything at face value and consider the authors and their potential motivation.
    Thanks for the information I have not read that study yet. I will now. (I cannot imagine the 1/32 indian playing loose with the facts... )

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    10-10-2013 10:37 AM
  10. palandri's Avatar
    The latest study I read showed reviewed all the bankruptcy filing with the justice department and medical debt accounted for only 12-13% of all the debts shown. Everyone cites the Harvard study which was co-authored by Elizabeth Warren a former Obama Admin official and current Mass Senator. Go read the study and you'll find out that Warren's team classified a filing as a medical bankruptcy whenever unpaid medical bills were resolved through bankruptcy proceedings , even if other debts were far bigger contributors to insolvency. In the end medical spending was only a factor in a person's bankruptcy in 17% of the cases. Don't read everything at face value and consider the authors and their potential motivation.
    Then link me to this latest study that shows the Harvard study had a load of spuriousness.
    10-10-2013 10:38 AM
  11. Mooncatt's Avatar
    It's the governments job to do what is in the best interest of the people in this country.
    But it is not their job to protect people from their own poor decisions.

    What was the number one cause of bankruptcy in the U.S.? Could it be medical bills?
    Nope, personal irresponsibility. If more people put their priorities right, they wouldn't be put into most situations leading to bankruptcy in the first place. Bankruptcy is just a symptom of a person's inability to spend their money wisely in most cases.
    cdmjlt369, qxr and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-10-2013 10:45 AM
  12. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Do you know how long the NHS has been in the UK? 1948 comes to mind. So they hit a bump in the road and they are making adjustments to rectify the issues. They aren't dumping NHS.
    No but to compare it to the current US system is apples to oranges. Cost per what you get is completely different. As well as the tax policies, societal needs, and number of citizens.

    Basically in a system like the NHS, you sacrifice the general level of care in an effort to cover everyone(on largely someone else's tab). Average citizens cannot afford the better private options, so they are forced to rely on the public.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-10-2013 10:52 AM
  13. SteveISU's Avatar
    Do you know how long the NHS has been in the UK? 1948 comes to mind. So they hit a bump in the road and they are making adjustments to rectify the issues. They aren't dumping NHS.

    To say it's unsustainable is Ted Cruz and Michele Bachmann nonsense.
    Come back to us when some staffer in Washington decides what drug you get based on cost to the system, not effectiveness. The UK, a wealthy nation by European standards imports as many new cancer saving drugs as the Czech Republic, that's pitiful. You won't be too happy if your doctor tells you there are better drugs out there but they're unavailable to you.
    qxr, cdmjlt369 and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-10-2013 11:34 AM
  14. palandri's Avatar
    Come back to us when some staffer in Washington decides what drug you get based on cost to the system, not effectiveness. The UK, a wealthy nation by European standards imports as many new cancer saving drugs as the Czech Republic, that's pitiful. You won't be too happy if your doctor tells you there are better drugs out there but they're unavailable to you.
    ...and I've also heard the Tea Party say the Government would rather send you a blue end of life pill, than pay the cost to get you well

    ... and Death Panels wiping out people right and left due to cost.

    ...and the previous ratings of healthcare systems around the world by the WHO that rated countries with national healthcare higher than the U.S. are wrong because the Tea Party knows better than the WHO.

    ...and we might as well toss in the Alex Jones FEMA enslavement camps too.

    Now it all makes sense.
    Wiley_11 and msndrstood like this.
    10-10-2013 01:03 PM
  15. msndrstood's Avatar
    Come back to us when some staffer in Washington decides what drug you get based on cost to the system, not effectiveness. The UK, a wealthy nation by European standards imports as many new cancer saving drugs as the Czech Republic, that's pitiful. You won't be too happy if your doctor tells you there are better drugs out there but they're unavailable to you.
    Insurance companies do this everyday. I was denied an MS drug and had to file appeal after appeal to get the insurance company to approve it. I eventually had to go directly through the drug company, even through we were paying for the damn insurance to cover it. This is real world stuff not your utopia where everyone gets whatever treatment they need on demand. It hasn't been that way for long time.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free
    palandri and Wiley_11 like this.
    10-10-2013 03:18 PM
  16. SteveISU's Avatar
    Insurance companies do this everyday. I was denied an MS drug and had to file appeal after appeal to get the insurance company to approve it. I eventually had to go directly through the drug company, even through we were paying for the damn insurance to cover it. This is real world stuff not your utopia where everyone gets whatever treatment they need on demand. It hasn't been that way for long time.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free
    Yet you have access to the drug if you want it. In the UK it isn't even in the country. Who do you think you'd have an easier time appealing to, Blue Cross or the Federal Government?
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-10-2013 04:17 PM
  17. msndrstood's Avatar
    Yet you have access to the drug if you want it. In the UK it isn't even in the country.
    Do you know what drug I'm speaking about? Yes it was, I was communicating with others with MS in the UK. It was covered by their insurance without issue.

    And btw, that 'access' is $2400/mo. Yes, very accessible indeed.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free
    10-10-2013 04:18 PM
  18. msndrstood's Avatar
    Double post.
    10-10-2013 04:19 PM
  19. SteveISU's Avatar
    ...and I've also heard the Tea Party say the Government would rather send you a blue end of life pill, than pay the cost to get you well

    ... and Death Panels wiping out people right and left due to cost.

    ...and the previous ratings of healthcare systems around the world by the WHO that rated countries with national healthcare higher than the U.S. are wrong because the Tea Party knows better than the WHO.

    ...and we might as well toss in the Alex Jones FEMA enslavement camps too.

    Now it all makes sense.
    Actually death panels make sense to me. Hell I'd force families to cover half the cost of medical treatment up front if they want to keep their 92 year old mother in a CVS to eek out 2 more weeks hoping for a miracle.

    WHO numbers are based on life expectancy and infant mortality, neither is a measure of the quality of a healthcare system.
    10-10-2013 04:20 PM
  20. SteveISU's Avatar
    Do you know what drug I'm speaking about? Yes it was, I was communicating with others with MS in the UK. It was covered by their insurance without issue.

    And btw, that 'access' is $2400/mo. Yes, very accessible indeed.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free

    I don't because you didn't specify, I'm speaking in generalities. We can run through a list of drugs you can't get their an vice versa. Keep in mind the FDA has a big say in what drugs come into this country.
    10-10-2013 04:23 PM
  21. msndrstood's Avatar
    Actually death panels make sense to me. Hell I'd force families to cover half the cost of medical treatment up front if they want to keep their 92 year old mother in a CVS to eek out 2 more weeks hoping for a miracle.

    WHO numbers are based on life expectancy and infant mortality, neither is a measure of the quality of a healthcare system.
    I'm glad I'm not your mother and I hope you feel the same way when you get old.

    Funny how everyone thinks Obamacare is going to push granny off the cliff...

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free
    10-10-2013 04:24 PM
  22. msndrstood's Avatar
    I don't because you didn't specify, I'm speaking in generalities. We can run through a list of drugs you can't get their an vice versa. Keep in mind the FDA has a big say in what drugs come into this country.
    But yet, you assumed it wasn't available in the UK because of socialized medicine.

    You guys just like to argue about everything and anything, especially with me.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free
    10-10-2013 04:27 PM
  23. SteveISU's Avatar
    But yet, you assumed it wasn't available in the UK because of socialized medicine.

    You guys just like to argue about everything and anything, especially with me.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free

    Not knowing the drug I don't know if it was available in the UK, which is why my initial example pertained to cancer drugs. My guess would be the drugs your talking about are Beta Interferons?

    We see reports of patients fighting the UK government for drugs available elsewhere, I know it happens. The issue then becomes the GOVERNMENT not a private company is withholding the best possible treatment, which is a whole other headline.

    You quoted a post that had me quoting someone other than you, I didn't single you out.
    10-10-2013 04:44 PM
  24. SteveISU's Avatar
    I'm glad I'm not your mother and I hope you feel the same way when you get old.

    Funny how everyone thinks Obamacare is going to push granny off the cliff...

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free
    My mother wouldn't want to be on machines or have any unnecessary measurements to sustain her life, neither would I.
    10-10-2013 04:45 PM
  25. msndrstood's Avatar
    Yes, it was beta interferons. Is it better who denies the coverage and why so?

    ...Then I apologize for including you in the argue with msndrstood cadre.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free
    10-10-2013 04:46 PM
249 ... 45678 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Importing S-Health Data
    By consultant2b in forum Samsung Galaxy S4
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-31-2014, 08:51 PM
  2. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-22-2013, 10:54 AM
  3. Universal TV and dvd remote
    By mcookson in forum General Help and How To
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-13-2013, 12:31 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-10-2013, 06:13 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD