01-28-2014 11:20 PM
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  1. SteveISU's Avatar
    Yes, it was beta interferons. Is it better who denies the coverage and why so?

    ...Then I apologize for including you in the argue with msndrstood cadre.

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    It is a much larger national story when a Government is viewed as the one killing or making it's own people suffer vs. a private entity. Try boycotting a government. You also run into the problem that comes with politicians making promises for XYZ coverage for votes, it gets expensive. You need to look no further than the state of the pension system in Illinois to see what happens when that goes unchecked.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-10-2013 04:51 PM
  2. msndrstood's Avatar
    But that's exactly what is happening, in a sense. For people who don't have insurance or can't get it because of something like MS, the government is the last resort. And the drug companies are in control once the drug is approved. The interferons were classified as 'orphan drugs' because there are less than 400,000 people in the US with MS. Right. That number hasn't changed since 1963 when the population was 189,000,000. Now it's 315,000,000 and still only 400,000? No, the number is kept artificially low so the orphan drug status can protect the patent for a longer period of time.

    I guarantee you know someone with MS, it is rampant in the northern latitudes, especially in the US and UK, especially in nurses.

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    palandri and Fairclough like this.
    10-10-2013 05:26 PM
  3. msndrstood's Avatar
    My mother wouldn't want to be on machines or have any unnecessary measurements to sustain her life, neither would I.
    But where do you draw the line? 60, 70, 80 ,90? And who decides?

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    10-10-2013 05:37 PM
  4. qxr's Avatar
    But where do you draw the line? 60, 70, 80 ,90? And who decides?

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    That is what England is facing now. Older patients not receiving orthopedic surgery because it is not "cost effective".
    That is not a country you want to be in if you need hip replacement surgery and are not affluent.




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    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-10-2013 05:55 PM
  5. msndrstood's Avatar
    If it's elective surgery, it can be just as daunting here with some insurance companies. They rarely approve elective surgery without jumping through hoops. A lot has changed in the medical field in the past 10 years. Most of it detrimental to the patients welfare and beneficial to the insurance company's bottom line.

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    palandri likes this.
    10-10-2013 05:59 PM
  6. qxr's Avatar
    If it's elective surgery, it can be just as daunting here with some insurance companies. They rarely approve elective surgery without jumping through hoops. A lot has changed in the medical field in the past 10 years. Most of it detrimental to the patients welfare and beneficial to the insurance company's bottom line.

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    Well I respectfully disagree. I am in the field. I also completed part of my coursework in england and several of my friends completed all of theirs in the UK. None of us would ever wish that on patients. Do you think kate got the same care as the commoners?

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    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-10-2013 06:07 PM
  7. msndrstood's Avatar
    Well, I'm glad I know somebody now that had experience with it. Are you interning here or working in the field? My specialty was cardio, but I did a stint on a rehab unit.

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    10-10-2013 06:10 PM
  8. Fairclough's Avatar
    The US system is also the only system in the world where anyone can walk into a doctors office/hospital and immediately scheduled whatever kind of test or procedure they want for the same week. Other places around the world procedures are based on "need". In those countries, if your not dying they will get you in in a few months. In the US, "How about we fill you in tomorrow?"

    In order for healthcare to be cheap, it has to be controlled. This control comes with limits. Limits that are not currently present in the US system and is why wealthy people from other countries routinely come to the US for treatment.
    Are you sure about that? Because I have walked into my doctor with a cracked skull, chopped off finger tip x2, wire through my foot and got service on the spot by my doctor.
    msndrstood and palandri like this.
    10-10-2013 08:40 PM
  9. Fairclough's Avatar
    Just think how much less taxes would be if healthcare wasn't free.

    You still didn't address my main point of why healthcare costs compared to GDP is a valid argument. Let's say hypothetically that going to a universal system does somehow lower healthcare costs. There are still too many variables affecting both the cost of healthcare and what the GDP is to make a direct comparison to the two. Heck, GDP has to go down to some extent overall, logically. To pay for this new free service, taxes have to go up to offset the cost. There's no way around it. That will cause businesses to move out, lower the workforce, or simply try to absorb the added costs and leave less capital to reinvest or pay better. Whatever the case, more money is taken out of the economy to pay for this "free" thing.
    GDP is a perfect example as it shows the income of each citizen and the costs is bears to them. Both cases the cost to our GDP from free health is cheaper than the cost to the states. Which reflects the us being the cheaper option. GDP is a perfect system as each country uses a different currency and has a different rate of inflation. E.g. Our medium house price is your upper house price in USD. SO if you use GDP is a fair scale. Also as incomes of different countries fluctuate and so does the costs, e.g. if they earn less in a country, the costs will be less so you use it as a percentile of their wage.

    There are many reasons the US system is "overpriced". First off, we have the best doctors and services. The old saying, "you get what you pay for " comes to mind. Then we have a problem with frivolous lawsuits. Also, as was mentioned, we turn no one away for emergency care. You walk in an emergency room, you get treated. We have a problem unlike other countries we have so many illegals here. Illegal immigrants can walk right in an emergency room and get treatment. That also affects costs.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Check your facts, The US health system is not the best in the world, I believe Japan is almost. Along with other "socialised" medicine nations. America ranks about 45. Which is relatively poor. Secondly a debate prior in the US system was the royal family uses the American hospitals, which is disproved was false. They use the UK hospitals. Even though its free, you still show your health care card, unless your on the system. So 'Illegals' as such aren't use it, you do realise 'illegals' would pay more in tax's as they wouldn't get a rebate or any service like that with out a social security number. SO theoretically they pay more and receive less then the citizens.
    That is what England is facing now. Older patients not receiving orthopedic surgery because it is not "cost effective".
    That is not a country you want to be in if you need hip replacement surgery and are not affluent.




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    You are seriously miss informed, no one is denied based on age.
    palandri likes this.
    10-10-2013 08:51 PM
  10. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    I think most people think something needs to be done to improve healthcare.US healthcare is ranked low based on overall perceptions of healthcare, its a faulty stat. If you are talking about quality of care alone, the US goes to the top of that list.

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    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-10-2013 09:18 PM
  11. Scott7217's Avatar
    If you think your're gonna convince a 28 yr old single guy to pay insurance premiums over a $95 fine you're delusional. The young will still say out unless you make the fine greater than the average cost of a an insurance policy. Then watch the young rise up and vote every liberal congressman out.
    It would be interesting to see if the young could vote anyone out of office over this issue. Young people would have to compete with the elderly voting block. Old people are usually retired, so they have plenty of time to wait in line to cast a vote. The elderly will vote for the candidate that leaves their benefits alone.

    The biggest problem I have with young people not contributing to the system is that there is no guarantee that they wouldn't sign up for health insurance when they get older (and are more likely to be sick). Health insurance really should be reserved for the people who have been contributing on a regular basis.
    10-10-2013 10:22 PM
  12. pappy53's Avatar
    10-11-2013 12:17 AM
  13. SteveISU's Avatar
    But where do you draw the line? 60, 70, 80 ,90? And who decides?

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    The family like is should be.
    10-11-2013 12:06 PM
  14. SteveISU's Avatar
    If it's elective surgery, it can be just as daunting here with some insurance companies. They rarely approve elective surgery without jumping through hoops. A lot has changed in the medical field in the past 10 years. Most of it detrimental to the patients welfare and beneficial to the insurance company's bottom line.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3

    Replace the word insurance companies with government and your faced with the same problems. Which is most peoples bone of contention, the government taking it over isn't the answer.
    10-11-2013 12:07 PM
  15. msndrstood's Avatar
    The family like is should be.
    Except in Texas, where they have real death panels. The hospital decides who lives and dies and doesn't have to tell you or your family what their decision is.

    http://www.aapsonline.org/index.php/...ents39_rights/

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    10-11-2013 12:27 PM
  16. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Are you sure about that? Because I have walked into my doctor with a cracked skull, chopped off finger tip x2, wire through my foot and got service on the spot by my doctor.
    Those are emergency or urgent situations. If I want a cat scan or a colonoscopy or a prostate exam i can go to a doctor right now and scheduled it for next week and insurance will cover it more than likely. Other countries tests like this are rationed out on a "need" basis.

    I would sure hope that you could walk into any hospital in a developed country with a cracked skull and immediately receive care. If there are developed countries where you cant, then i dont know why anyone is complaining about the US system lol.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-11-2013 12:37 PM
  17. qxr's Avatar
    Except in Texas, where they have real death panels. The hospital decides who lives and dies and doesn't have to tell you or your family what their decision is.

    http://www.aapsonline.org/index.php/...ents39_rights/

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    Under what circumstances does this bill apply? Article is so against the bill but does not give a specific applications.

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    10-11-2013 12:53 PM
  18. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Under what circumstances does this bill apply? Article is so against the bill but does not give a specific applications.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    I looked it up and all i could find is extremely biased answers against it. Nothing that really explains the required circumstances.

    The issue is, if the doctor(or whoever) decides that there will be no more resuscitation, the patient/family has to go through a process to get it repealed. That process takes time in which the patient could die.
    10-11-2013 01:21 PM
  19. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Well BCBS just announced that all premiums will be going up because of the ACA. My company pays for part of my insurance, so i will have to wait and see how much extra i will personally have to pay. Yay Obamacare
    10-11-2013 01:23 PM
  20. msndrstood's Avatar
    The patient/family doesn't have access to the patient records during the time they have to wait for a hearing. It takes the decision away from the patient and family and places it in the hands of the hospital's ethics committee.

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    10-11-2013 01:25 PM
  21. pappy53's Avatar
    Well BCBS just announced that all premiums will be going up because of the ACA. My company pays for part of my insurance, so i will have to wait and see how much extra i will personally have to pay. Yay Obamacare
    Our BCBS went up 38% last year because of Obamacare, and it is time to enroll again. Fingers crossed!
    10-11-2013 01:28 PM
  22. qxr's Avatar
    Our BCBS went up 38% last year because of Obamacare, and it is time to enroll again. Fingers crossed!
    Did you see the story about the father of 6 whose insurance went from 463 to 1300 and no other insurance companies available. He was on Greta van susteren. Guess not everyone gets to keep their insurance they have. We should have allowed insurance across statelines and not forced all the extras. He could have lowered his premiums a bit if he dropped dental, but he has 6 kids and some with braces. Incidently he adopted them. Good man.

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    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-11-2013 01:39 PM
  23. NoYankees44's Avatar
    The patient/family doesn't have access to the patient records during the time they have to wait for a hearing. It takes the decision away from the patient and family and places it in the hands of the hospital's ethics committee.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3 now Free
    Skimming through a few articles, it seems as though this is actually viewed by some as an improvement over a law from 1999 where the patient had no say what so ever after the DNR call was made. I cannot really tell without spending more time digging though.
    10-11-2013 01:40 PM
  24. msndrstood's Avatar
    Skimming through a few articles, it seems as though this is actually viewed by some as an improvement over a law from 1999 where the patient had no say what so ever after the DNR call was made. I cannot really tell without spending more time digging though.
    Still a power outage here, and I'm down to 16%, so I can't really do much searching. But it's a scary proposition when the decision isn't in your hands.

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    qxr likes this.
    10-11-2013 01:43 PM
  25. msndrstood's Avatar
    Did you see the story about the father of 6 whose insurance went from 463 to 1300 and no other insurance companies available. He was on Greta van susteren. Guess not everyone gets to keep their insurance they have. We should have allowed insurance across statelines and not forced all the extras. He could have lowered his premiums a bit if he dropped dental, but he has 6 kids and some with braces. Incidently he adopted them. Good man.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using AC Forums mobile app
    In March of 2010, our insurance company sent us a letter stating that since the ACA was signed 10 days before the letter our insurance premiums were increasing 100% from 350/mo to 700/mo. We had 2 days to make the decision to pay the increase or get new insurance. We'd had the same insurance for 30 years.

    There is no way that the rates increased in 10 days when the gist of the law wouldn't take effect for 4 years. It was greed pure and simple.

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    Fairclough likes this.
    10-11-2013 01:47 PM
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