11-14-2013 07:34 PM
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  1. llamabreath's Avatar
    I can't believe I'm actually relieved that my grandfather is too dead and too many feet under to know what's going on these days.

    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-15-2013 06:24 PM
  2. msndrstood's Avatar
    And only the robots don't think that's EXACTLY one of the things Dems and the Regime want you to notice.

    I wonder how the Dems and/or liberals explain to their grandfathers (WW2 Vets) the BS they're pulling.

    SICKENING



    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    And they want you to fall for their faux outrage.

    The stock market will react. Did you miss 2008?

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    10-15-2013 06:29 PM
  3. llamabreath's Avatar
    I was relieved when he missed 9/11 by a year and relieved now.

    Our country is (and has been since then) on a dangerous and downward spiral.... and the liberals/Dems are more than happy to bring us there.


    Thanks.





    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-15-2013 06:32 PM
  4. msndrstood's Avatar
    My father was at Pearl Harbor, he had been pissed at the government since his discharge in 1946. I think he'd still be pissed, just because it was the government. Her never cast a vote in his life. That's how pissed he was.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    10-15-2013 06:32 PM
  5. llamabreath's Avatar
    My father was at Pearl Harbor, he had been pissed at the government since his discharge in 1946. I think he'd still be pissed, just because it was the government. Her never cast a vote in his life. That's how pissed he was.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    Why wasn't he pissed at the "people" that blew up his friends instead?

    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-15-2013 06:51 PM
  6. mrsmumbles's Avatar
    I'm missing the 1:1 between large enough to be effective and Communism. There are dozens of effective constitutional governments and quite a few ineffective ones. Global civics is about more than Mao and Nixon. Having been to a few dozen countries, I can say that the majority feel just as free to Joe schmoe tourist and citizen. Some things are different, like most don't have anything like the 2nd amendment, but some of the differences are very positive.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    Sure. And their economies are in deep trouble. Maybe you'd have to read the financial journals.

    Sent from my C5170 via Tapatalk 2
    10-15-2013 07:47 PM
  7. Aquila's Avatar
    Sure. And their economies are in deep trouble. Maybe you'd have to read the financial journals.

    Sent from my C5170 via Tapatalk 2
    Is that inferring that their economies are bad independently of ours or that ours isn't also extraordinarily weak? While there are some struggling markets, others are doing fairly well considering the atmosphere. I'm fairly up to speed on economics but always willing to learn more.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-15-2013 07:54 PM
  8. mrsmumbles's Avatar
    So now all big government's are Communist?

    You've explained plenty, but have provided facts for nothing. I can "explain" things all day, but that doesn't make them right. Everything you've said is an opinion (and you've stated it as such) until you provide facts to back them up.



    Agreeing with it doesn't make it right. I trust that you've done all of the proper research to make sure that what you agree with is also factually correct (in your own interpretation of course).
    All big governments are at the expense of individual freedom.

    If you think being in debt has no effect on freedom, you've never been in debt. And that's at the best of big government woes.

    The bigger the government the closer to communism, yes.

    What facts are you looking for? Much of what I've said is historical fact. It may not be easily found in school books, though.

    What exactly do you want facts quoted on? Income statistics? French fries consumption? Be specific.

    Sent from my C5170 via Tapatalk 2
    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    10-15-2013 07:56 PM
  9. mrsmumbles's Avatar
    Is that inferring that their economies are bad independently of ours or that ours isn't also extraordinarily weak? While there are some struggling markets, others are doing fairly well considering the atmosphere. I'm fairly up to speed on economics but always willing to learn more.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    We're in bad shape too, but the s hasn't fully hit the fan yet.

    Sent from my C5170 via Tapatalk 2
    10-15-2013 08:03 PM
  10. cabiggs152's Avatar
    8.3 million people?!?! That's the pop of New York City, which is no where near close to half the american population ( its close to 350 million) so yea the 8.3 fu***d the rest of the 341.7 million Americans. You wouldn't need to make Obama care a LAW if the people wanted it. Smh I didn't vote that man in...

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using AC Forums mobile app
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    10-15-2013 08:07 PM
  11. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    All big governments are at the expense of individual freedom.

    If you think being in debt has no effect on freedom, you've never been in debt. And that's at the best of big government woes.

    The bigger the government the closer to communism, yes.

    What facts are you looking for? Much of what I've said is historical fact. It may not be easily found in school books, though.

    What exactly do you want facts quoted on? Income statistics? French fries consumption? Be specific.

    Sent from my C5170 via Tapatalk 2
    And you lost me. Opinion does not equal fact just because you say so.

    Have fun.

    The last few pages have proven why the government is still closed.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    palandri and craZDude like this.
    10-15-2013 08:07 PM
  12. Scott7217's Avatar
    I mean the a British press agency did release a copy of obamas kenyan birth certificate earlier this month.
    Did John McCain and Mitt Romney ever comment on that finding? I would expect those two to have a lot of things to say regarding that subject.
    10-15-2013 09:12 PM
  13. Scott7217's Avatar
    All big governments are at the expense of individual freedom.
    Freedom isn't free. You have to work at it constantly. Show me a big government taking away individual freedoms, and I'll show you people so apathetic that they can't even be bothered to get out and vote on election day, much less participate in their own government.
    msndrstood likes this.
    10-15-2013 09:29 PM
  14. Scott7217's Avatar
    Why wasn't he pissed at the "people" that blew up his friends instead?
    Why not both?
    10-15-2013 09:53 PM
  15. Scott7217's Avatar
    Our country is (and has been since then) on a dangerous and downward spiral....
    Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

    It's times like these that I think about what happened to the Roman Empire. It used to be the superpower of the ancient world. Poor leadership and fiscal mismanagement lead to its downfall. Now it's just a shadow of its former self. The descendants of the Romans are forever doomed to drink espresso from tiny cups and drive fuel-inefficient Lamborghini automobiles.

    Off-topic: The mob runs the olive oil industry, but don't tell anyone that you heard it from me.
    msndrstood and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-15-2013 10:34 PM
  16. craZDude's Avatar
    And you lost me. Opinion does not equal fact just because you say so.

    Have fun.

    The last few pages have proven why the government is still closed.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    I have to agree with you. The lack of sound logic and actual backing of opinions with real historical situations in the last few pages has been dismal and depressing.

    So I ask of you, people who think that big government is directly correlated with a worse economy AND communism, please provide me with actual historical examples of countries that upon a size increase in government have had suddenly worse economies. Also, make sure to explicitly state how you define "worse economy", because your belief that corporations having MORE money would cause them to I've more money to their blue collar or lower workers is astounding to me.

    I can already think of an excellent counter-example to the large government=bad economy statement, which is Germany in the 1930's. Germany's economy was doing terribly before the Nazi party came into power, but the strict implementation of national laws turned things completely around for them. Regardless of what came socially from the Nazi party, there is no disputing that economically they were incredibly beneficial to Germany at the time.
    10-16-2013 01:44 AM
  17. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    The nazi party's success came at the expense of other people. The Jewish people. Remember them? Big government success story is not what that was.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    plumbrich and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-16-2013 02:52 AM
  18. Fairclough's Avatar
    Actually Germany got rich quick not necessary from stripping the Jews but reclaiming their former land. The allies tactically took away their most profitable sections so they had no chance of rising, once they started production it increase their economy, when they built their military and took over their former lands they had a massive additional income which was stripped off them after ww1.


    The reason people fear the US defaulting as countries like China have over 1.5 trillion loaned to the US tres. US defaulting means their no longer a stable investment, going to the prim of defaulting creates fear in investors.what does this mean? Less will invest in the US and invest in other nations due to the political stability and slightly less economic stability.

    We crashed out dollar to increase exports, from buying 1.11 USD to 0.89, as our high dollar meant no one was willing to buy our iron ore. this threat shot our economy up from .89 to .96 in 2 days. It shakes economies.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    10-16-2013 06:06 AM
  19. llamabreath's Avatar
    For those mortified by my comments last night regarding my grandfather, please note that alcohol had a little bit to do with it, so.... yeah... back to normal function again.



    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    msndrstood likes this.
    10-16-2013 07:04 AM
  20. craZDude's Avatar
    The nazi party's success came at the expense of other people. The Jewish people. Remember them? Big government success story is not what that was.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    I was specifically talking about Germany economically, but if you really want to get into that:

    Do you think the major success stories in America haven't been at the expense of whole groups of people? Remind me again just how huge the income gap is in America right now, and how so many people are living in poverty, while people who work for the large corporations and hundreds of millions to themselves. These are the large corporations, by the way, that you (or maybe people you have agreed with) claim would give more money to the employees (implying the middle class employees) if there was even more deregulation. I'm not sure how you can pay less taxes than none, but according to you that is the direction the nation should go.
    10-16-2013 09:06 AM
  21. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I was specifically talking about Germany economically, but if you really want to get into that:

    Do you think the major success stories in America haven't been at the expense of whole groups of people? Remind me again just how huge the income gap is in America right now, and how so many people are living in poverty, while people who work for the large corporations and hundreds of millions to themselves. These are the large corporations, by the way, that you (or maybe people you have agreed with) claim would give more money to the employees (implying the middle class employees) if there was even more deregulation. I'm not sure how you can pay less taxes than none, but according to you that is the direction the nation should go.
    Just because someone is successful and makes a lot of money does not mean they are taking that money away from someone else. There is not a set amount of wealth. The amount of wealth grows and shrinks all the time.

    The US has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. A corporation is not a person. I don't understand why we tax them at all.

    The drive to make more money is what runs an economy. If you take the ability to make more money away, the economy ceases to work. If a company expands, it has the ability to make more money. Within that expansion, a company has to hire more workers, promote workers to management, buy equipment, contract services, ect. ect. ect. When you tax said company, you are limiting its ability to expand and do all the things listed above which is great for the economy and workers.

    One thing i will never understand is the contempt for the "Rich" people. What right do you have to tell anyone else how much they should or should not make? You call them greedy, but you are the one trying to take their stuff away. You want to help the poor? Create an environment where companies can make as much money as possible. Then the companies will grow and offer more jobs and more higher paying jobs Yes a consequence of this is the owners of said companies will make a lot of money as well, but that is not at the expense of its workers. It is actually to their benefit. Then said owners with want to invest more in the company so that they can make even more money. Which will in turn make more money for the workers.

    It is simple math and psychology. Why would a person want to run a business in country that prevents them from making as much money as they could somewhere else?
    10-16-2013 10:25 AM
  22. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    I was specifically talking about Germany economically, but if you really want to get into that:

    Do you think the major success stories in America haven't been at the expense of whole groups of people? Remind me again just how huge the income gap is in America right now, and how so many people are living in poverty, while people who work for the large corporations and hundreds of millions to themselves. These are the large corporations, by the way, that you (or maybe people you have agreed with) claim would give more money to the employees (implying the middle class employees) if there was even more deregulation. I'm not sure how you can pay less taxes than none, but according to you that is the direction the nation should go.
    True entitlement mentality. As far as taxes go, the fair tax. Many problems solved at one time.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-16-2013 10:53 AM
  23. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Just because someone is successful and makes a lot of money does not mean they are taking that money away from someone else. There is not a set amount of wealth. The amount of wealth grows and shrinks all the time.

    The US has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. A corporation is not a person. I don't understand why we tax them at all.

    The drive to make more money is what runs an economy. If you take the ability to make more money away, the economy ceases to work. If a company expands, it has the ability to make more money. Within that expansion, a company has to hire more workers, promote workers to management, buy equipment, contract services, ect. ect. ect. When you tax said company, you are limiting its ability to expand and do all the things listed above which is great for the economy and workers.

    One thing i will never understand is the contempt for the "Rich" people. What right do you have to tell anyone else how much they should or should not make? You call them greedy, but you are the one trying to take their stuff away. You want to help the poor? Create an environment where companies can make as much money as possible. Then the companies will grow and offer more jobs and more higher paying jobs Yes a consequence of this is the owners of said companies will make a lot of money as well, but that is not at the expense of its workers. It is actually to their benefit. Then said owners with want to invest more in the company so that they can make even more money. Which will in turn make more money for the workers.

    It is simple math and psychology. Why would a person want to run a business in country that prevents them from making as much money as they could somewhere else?
    Wal-Mart has been great for workers, right? So many stories of them being treated poorly, unfairly, etc. Paid minimum wage (so much for increasing wages, right?), and they typically kill small business when they move into an area they weren't previously in. I've seen it happen.

    Keep telling me that big corporations making all this money is so great for everyone else. It's great for those reaping the rewards of the profits. Wal-Mart, Kraft, GE, Johnson & Johnson, are just a few. Show me any proof whatsoever that because they've made so much money that they've allowed that to trickle down to the line-level workers.

    Your logic is flawed in that area. "I don't understand why we tax them at all" do you not understand how our government works? I mean heck, we get taxed for just spending money. How hard is that to figure out? Democracy runs on taxes. So let's take away the corporate tax and increase income tax, or sales tax, or the gas tax. I'm gathering that you don't agree with the concept that if a company is based in the US, does business in the US, sells products in the US, that it should then pay taxes for that money in the US? You're ok with them taking all of their money overseas and paying nothing in taxes on the majority of it? I sure wish I could do that with MY income.

    The idea is that those that make the most money can afford to pay more taxes. That's the idea, and when you look at from a fundamental standpoint, it logically makes sense. If I make a million dollars I can afford more than someone that makes ten thousand. It's a mathematical fact, and when you take politics out of it is a sound concept. If it helps, make it marbles instead of dollars. I can give someone more marbles if I have a million and you have ten thousand.
    10-16-2013 11:11 AM
  24. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    True entitlement mentality. As far as taxes go, the fair tax. Many problems solved at one time.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    No it's not. Pointing out the fact that the companies already don't let the profits trickle down to increased wages for workers isn't an entitlement mentality. It's pointing out the fact that even WITH regulation it doesn't happen, so why would it happen WITHOUT any regulation? Companies get huge, make record profits, and don't increase wages. Fact (because I said so. Works for you guys, works for me.)

    Fact is, what's been pointed out flies in the face of some of the points that have been made, and you're trying to apply a label to it that just doesn't fit.
    palandri, msndrstood and craZDude like this.
    10-16-2013 11:15 AM
  25. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Wal-Mart has been great for workers, right? So many stories of them being treated poorly, unfairly, etc. Paid minimum wage (so much for increasing wages, right?), and they typically kill small business when they move into an area they weren't previously in. I've seen it happen.

    Keep telling me that big corporations making all this money is so great for everyone else. It's great for those reaping the rewards of the profits. Wal-Mart, Kraft, GE, Johnson & Johnson, are just a few. Show me any proof whatsoever that because they've made so much money that they've allowed that to trickle down to the line-level workers.

    Your logic is flawed in that area. "I don't understand why we tax them at all" do you not understand how our government works? I mean heck, we get taxed for just spending money. How hard is that to figure out? Democracy runs on taxes. So let's take away the corporate tax and increase income tax, or sales tax, or the gas tax. I'm gathering that you don't agree with the concept that if a company is based in the US, does business in the US, sells products in the US, that it should then pay taxes for that money in the US? You're ok with them taking all of their money overseas and paying nothing in taxes on the majority of it? I sure wish I could do that with MY income.

    The idea is that those that make the most money can afford to pay more taxes. That's the idea, and when you look at from a fundamental standpoint, it logically makes sense. If I make a million dollars I can afford more than someone that makes ten thousand. It's a mathematical fact, and when you take politics out of it is a sound concept. If it helps, make it marbles instead of dollars. I can give someone more marbles if I have a million and you have ten thousand.
    Yeah.. that evil Wal-Mart employing people. How dare they. If you don't like Wal-Mart salary, better yourself and find a non Wal-Mart job. People say Wal-Marts got all this money they should pay more. These same people say tax the crap out of walmart and you wonder why businesses can't pay more. If you don't like walmart pay, work somewhere else.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-16-2013 11:26 AM
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