11-14-2013 07:34 PM
749 ... 1819202122 ...
tools
  1. craZDude's Avatar
    Very sad indeed to see them fold but I expected that in my subconscious but wanted to believe it wasn't so. It has been my belief since the beginning of the Obama care scam it was all about Marxist beliefs from the current and past administrations backed by many Marxist citizens in the U.S. ( And No just because you support it doesn't automatically make you a Marxist)

    By creating universal health care it creates high prices in the free market so one is forced to depend on the government for their health care causing more people to depend on Government. There will still be private insurance companies but they will play more of a subsidies role giving the illusion we still have private health care.

    "if you took it for original face value you would still be supporting slavery which is plain wrong."
    The word "slave" does not appear in the Constitution.

    The Constitution did however prohibited Congress from outlawing the Atlantic slave trade for twenty years.
    Slavery was used way before the Americas was even found and common practice during the signing of the Constitution.

    The civil war was not about slavery until after some of the states left the union and was not until the industrial revolution did it disappear for the most part from America. Australia did not pass into law banning slavery until 1901. Slavery in parts of the world is alive and well but instead of joining causes to help these modern day slaves it fits most to concentrate on forgetting all the countries that had slavery before and after America because to them it is sooo much better to just concentrate on the bashing of Americans past of slave use.

    Those that bash and harp on the American PAST of slavery should Google "Estimated number of slaves in the world 2013" Then ask themselves what have they done in the past year to help or bring light to this problem?

    Re-reading Karl Marx The Communist Manifesto while highlighting allot of today's citizens common beliefs you may be amazed to find that it is scary seeing so many paragraphs highlighted throughout the book. It does make the Constitution of the U.S. even more needed today and the near future than some years past. Does Obama care and the shut down fall more in-line with the Constitution or Marxism? This question could easily fill 100's of pages of a new post that's for sure.
    Seriously? Marxist beliefs? I don't think anyone in the government right now wants Marxism to be the dominant political theory in how we run our nation. There is a HUGE difference between socialist policies and communist policies.
    10-18-2013 09:17 AM
  2. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Pretty sure one guy has control over the entire Military. One body of government has control over the entire budget. There are plenty of "monopolies" to speak of by your definition.

    ACA is regulating healthcare and requiring coverage, not controlling the entire industry. Whether or not the regulation is a good thing is what the debate is over.

    No way will anyone ever go and try to compare the ACA to a monopolistic corporation (or other entity) as a way to get it repealed.
    Really? Hours are being cut. Jobs are being cut. Most people can't even get on the website to try and apply for Obamacare. Rates are outrageous through the exchanges. Private healthcare is also going up due to the ACA. The ACA puts a cap on flexible spending accounts even through private insurance. That's right come I got notified by BCBS that my flexible spending account was going to be cut because it was more then what was federally allowed since the implementation of the ACA. These are just some things I know through personal experiences already. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, many more pages of unknowns exist in that bill. I wonder how many people realize that this bill will be a middle class killer. When it is all said and done we will only have the wealthy and the poor.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-18-2013 09:28 AM
  3. llamabreath's Avatar
    When did this become about a few politicians?
    And the circle continues..... :banghead:

    When the ACA was ratified despite the disapproval of most of the country.





    Signatures, shmignatures...
    cdmjlt369 and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-18-2013 09:30 AM
  4. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    But it wasn't changed to allow the ACA. It was bypassed. And before anyone says it , the ACA was not ruled unconstitutional, granted. However the mandate is unconstitutional because the supreme court said it was constitutional as a tax only. Problem is they never rewrote the bill to be approved in this way. This would have had to be done in the house and it wasn't.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    If the mandate was unconstitutional it would have been ruled as such, but wasn't. So that argument is null and void. Unless you're saying you're better at interpreting laws and the Constitution than SCOTUS.

    I posted an article or two about this some pages back. You either missed it or ignored it, and are now trying to go back to that argument.
    10-18-2013 09:31 AM
  5. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    And the circle continues..... :banghead:

    When the ACA was ratified despite the disapproval of most of the country.

    http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/18/anuguhav.jpg



    •• Signatures, shmignatures...
    So we're back to running the country based on poll results? Who's going in circles now?
    10-18-2013 09:33 AM
  6. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Really? Hours are being cut. Jobs are being cut. Most people can't even get on the website to try and apply for Obamacare. Rates are outrageous through the exchanges. Private healthcare is also going up due to the ACA. The ACA puts a cap on flexible spending accounts even through private insurance. That's right come I got notified by BCBS that my flexible spending account was going to be cut because it was more then what was federally allowed since the implementation of the ACA. These are just some things I know through personal experiences already. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, many more pages of unknowns exist in that bill. I wonder how many people realize that this bill will be a middle class killer. When it is all said and done we will only have the wealthy and the poor.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Then the regulation isn't working as intended. Did anyone ever say that it didn't need to be fixed or looked at again? Or that talks couldn't/shouldn't happen to make it what both sides want (not the crazies on the far left or right. The intelligent folks that comprise the majority of Congress).

    EDIT: I should've have specified that it might not be working for everyone as intended. And yes, the website is an issue. There are plenty of people that will be able to get health insurance that didn't qualify before, and the pre-existing condition clause is already helping people.
    palandri and craZDude like this.
    10-18-2013 09:34 AM
  7. palandri's Avatar
    There is reason that a monopoly is not a good thing. One entity having control over any one element is a terrible idea. Your water department analogy is flawed. If you believe that the ACA is a fair and just law then by that same premise other people should have to pay part of my water bill even though they do not reside where I do.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    That really doesn't make any sense. The root is Public ownership vs Private ownership. If anything goes to Public ownership, the Capitalist scream Socialism, Marxism...etc...

    We have fought wars over Public ownership vs Private ownership, Why do you think we were in Vietnam? To stop the spread of Communism (Public ownership vs Private ownership) but now we are OK with Vietnam and are trading partners with them.

    Do you know why the Iranians hate so much? Who overthrew the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran who nationalize (Public ownership) the oil companies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh

    Who overthrew the democratically elected president of Chile because he said the wealth of Chile should belong to the people Chile and nationalized the copper mines (Public ownership) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende
    craZDude likes this.
    10-18-2013 09:35 AM
  8. craZDude's Avatar
    And the circle continues..... :banghead:

    When the ACA was ratified despite the disapproval of most of the country.

    http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/18/anuguhav.jpg



    Signatures, shmignatures...
    The ACA is a law, not an amendment. And we already had a discussion that it is not always the job of politicians to follow the popular vote in the nation once they have been put in office.
    10-18-2013 09:36 AM
  9. llamabreath's Avatar
    The ACA is a law, not an amendment. And we already had a discussion that it is not always the job of politicians to follow the popular vote in the nation once they have been put in office.
    Did I ever imply it's an amendment? I know what it is. And that discussion about politicians not needing to follow popular opinion was not very impressive.



    Signatures, shmignatures...
    cdmjlt369 and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-18-2013 09:40 AM
  10. craZDude's Avatar
    Everyone in the nation won't have basic health care . It was meant to be affordable and it is not . And yes it does go against many Christian beliefs as they will have to support abortion through this bill. And I never said only Christians have the right to not support things.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    So you are OK with mandating that people can't get abortions, but not that people should have general potentially life-saving health insurance, that if correctly applied, would decrease medical costs in the nation due to more preventive care?
    10-18-2013 09:41 AM
  11. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Like a friend of mine who is an economist recently told me , you couldn't do this bad a job with the government unless you were doing it intentionally. Cloward- Piven strategy. And while this administration has fast forward this process, it is not at fault alone. At least the last two administrations have helped push us down that road

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-18-2013 09:48 AM
  12. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Did I ever imply it's an amendment? I know what it is. And that discussion about politicians not needing to follow popular opinion was not very impressive.



    •• Signatures, shmignatures...
    Only because you didn't agree with it. The nation should not be ran on polls. They are, by their very nature, inaccurate and very "heat of the moment". They do make for great talking points, though.
    10-18-2013 09:51 AM
  13. craZDude's Avatar
    Did I ever imply it's an amendment? I know what it is. And that discussion about politicians not needing to follow popular opinion was not very impressive.



    Signatures, shmignatures...
    Unless I'm mistaken, and I might be, I don't think normal laws are "ratified". They are simply passed. I think that is where the confusion stemmed from.

    Edit:

    It wasn't impressive? That doesn't mean a lot. Something can be unimpressive but still be right or the correct line of reasoning. I am guessing that you meant you didn't agree with the conclusion that once politicians are elected, they should do their job as they see fit, and not as the people who elected them see fit? It isn't an easy question t answer, but in the end shouldn't we trust that the people who we elect to represent us will know better how to run the country than we would?
    10-18-2013 09:51 AM
  14. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    So you are OK with mandating that people can't get abortions, but not that people should have general potentially life-saving health insurance, that if correctly applied, would decrease medical costs in the nation due to more preventive care?
    Did I say I support mandated abortions, no. I believe in true freedom. If you want one, get one. But I don't want anything to do with helping fund it.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-18-2013 09:52 AM
  15. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    People sure are in the habit of putting words in other peoples mouth today...lol

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    craZDude and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-18-2013 09:53 AM
  16. craZDude's Avatar
    Did I say I support mandated abortions, no. I believe in true freedom. If you want one, get one. But I don't want anything to do with helping fund it.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Ah, you're right, I'm sorry, I acted on an assumption, and I shouldn't have. My mistake.

    I think I understand why some people feel they do not want to "fund" abortions, but I suppose as a nation we decided that they are worth funding. Would you rather have to fund another child whose parents don't have the money to support it?
    palandri and msndrstood like this.
    10-18-2013 10:01 AM
  17. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Ah, you're right, I'm sorry, I acted on an assumption, and I shouldn't have. My mistake.

    I think I understand why some people feel they do not want to "fund" abortions, but I suppose as a nation we decided that they are worth funding. Would you rather have to fund another child whose parents don't have the money to support it?
    So when did the nation get the right to reign over anyone's personal beliefs?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-18-2013 11:11 AM
  18. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    So when did the nation get the right to reign over anyone's personal beliefs?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    That's probably a direction you don't want to go, since there are PLENTY of examples of that happening already.

    We have literally hundreds of laws that limit your choice. The difference is that those are commonly accepted by society as necessary. Which again, is really the crux of this discussion.

    Want to speed, or not wear a seat belt? Want to NOT have your kid in a car seat?

    Should I continue?
    10-18-2013 11:29 AM
  19. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    That's probably a direction you don't want to go, since there are PLENTY of examples of that happening already.

    We have literally hundreds of laws that limit your choice. The difference is that those are commonly accepted by society as necessary. Which again, is really the crux of this discussion.

    Want to speed, or not wear a seat belt? Want to NOT have your kid in a car seat?

    Should I continue?
    Which further illustraes my point. Our rights and individual freedoms are being violated little by little. Just because it's not violating a paticular right that directly concerns you doesn't mean they will not finally hit the one you care about.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-18-2013 12:58 PM
  20. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Which further illustraes my point. Our rights and individual freedoms are being violated little by little. Just because it's not violating a paticular right that directly concerns you doesn't mean they will not finally hit the one you care about.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Sorry, I'm laughing. I can't help it. They HAVE hit on ones that I care about. That doesn't mean that I want to demolish the government over it.
    palandri, msndrstood and craZDude like this.
    10-18-2013 01:14 PM
  21. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Sorry, I'm laughing. I can't help it. They HAVE hit on ones that I care about. That doesn't mean that I want to demolish the government over it.
    The fact that you're laughing proves it hasn't hit you, yet. Glad this is funny to some of you who don't have friends and family losing hours and their jobs and insurance to this mess. The terrible effects of this law have already become real to some of us. But, glad the gloom already hanging over some of us could brighten your day. Never said I wanted to demolish the government. I hope people don't seriously think that having to have car insurance is the same as being mandated to have healthcare.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-18-2013 02:05 PM
  22. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Which further illustraes my point. Our rights and individual freedoms are being violated little by little. Just because it's not violating a paticular right that directly concerns you doesn't mean they will not finally hit the one you care about.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    The fact that you're laughing proves it hasn't hit you, yet. Glad this is funny to some of you who don't have friends and family losing hours and their jobs and insurance to this mess. The terrible effects of this law have already become real to some of us. But, glad the gloom already hanging over some of us could brighten your day. Never said I wanted to demolish the government. I hope people don't seriously think that having to have car insurance is the same as being mandated to have healthcare.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Look at what you said above. I quoted it. The only way to prevent that from happening would be to abolish the government. Otherwise, you HAVE to accept that rights and freedoms will be infringed upon. If you really think that will stop I believe you need to do some thinking. Remember, the group that I believe you support that's so against the ACA because it infringes on people's rights is the same group that spearheaded the Patriot Act and things of that nature. Does that not bother you because it doesn't directly affect your income? Or does it bother you, but that infringement is fine because it's for the "greater good"? Or would you also like to see that repealed?

    If I make the assumption that you want the Patriot Act repealed (and other surveillance programs of that nature) because you don't want your rights infringed upon, then would you support the left if they caused a government shut down to try to get rid of it?

    Also, you can't speak generally and then get specific about it when someone replies. That's not how you have a productive discussion about things. It moves the goal posts, and makes it more difficult for someone to reply properly to what you said.
    10-18-2013 02:17 PM
  23. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Look at what you said above. I quoted it. The only way to prevent that from happening would be to abolish the government. Otherwise, you HAVE to accept that rights and freedoms will be infringed upon. If you really think that will stop I believe you need to do some thinking. Remember, the group that I believe you support that's so against the ACA because it infringes on people's rights is the same group that spearheaded the Patriot Act and things of that nature. Does that not bother you because it doesn't directly affect your income? Or does it bother you, but that infringement is fine because it's for the "greater good"? Or would you also like to see that repealed?

    If I make the assumption that you want the Patriot Act repealed (and other surveillance programs of that nature) because you don't want your rights infringed upon, then would you support the left if they caused a government shut down to try to get rid of it?

    Also, you can't speak generally and then get specific about it when someone replies. That's not how you have a productive discussion about things. It moves the goal posts, and makes it more difficult for someone to reply properly to what you said.
    I do not support the ACA, NDAA, or patriot act. Regardless of where they came from. I look at the premise of a law and decide if I support it or not. And yes, I think the patriot act needs to be repealed.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-18-2013 02:36 PM
  24. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I do not support the ACA, NDAA, or patriot act. Regardless of where they came from. I look at the premise of a law and decide if I support it or not. And yes, I think the patriot act needs to be repealed.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    And the second part of the question...would you support the left if they shut the government down over it?
    10-18-2013 02:56 PM
  25. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    And the second part of the question...would you support the left if they shut the government down over it?
    Yes... As I said before, I'm not party affiliated. No matter which side was opposing the ACA I would have supported them doing whatever was necessary to stop it . I sincerely believe it's that bad regardless of where the bill came from. I feel the same way about the Patriot Act.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Kevin OQuinn and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-18-2013 03:01 PM
749 ... 1819202122 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Changing battery's better to shutdown the S4?
    By Nuno Mota in forum Samsung Galaxy S4
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-02-2013, 12:15 PM
  2. 4.3 random shutdown
    By talsi_st in forum Google / Samsung Galaxy Nexus
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-21-2013, 12:45 AM
  3. samsung s4 shutdown "help"
    By Shatha816 in forum Samsung Galaxy S4
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-27-2013, 07:46 AM
  4. Government Notifications & the Skyrocket
    By SpringCTIL in forum Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-23-2013, 05:50 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD