11-14-2013 07:34 PM
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  1. alexlam24's Avatar
    I think that was the point that was being made.
    Our government runs on money, rather than being run by the people now. Oh you wanna meet your state governor? Donate 3 million to his next campaign. We need people to know what they're doing. Our government isn't really that much of a democracy, more of an oligarchy. Run by a select group of people with more money than brains

    Sent from the last HTC device with a removable battery on T-Mobile
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-19-2013 08:25 PM
  2. palandri's Avatar
    Our government runs on money, rather than being run by the people now....
    No surprise there, breakdown the word "Capitalism" capital means money, ism means a distinctive practice or system.

    A cooler word to breakdown is "Astronaut" astro means star, naut means sailor, Star Sailor
    10-19-2013 10:51 PM
  3. Aquila's Avatar
    Because it will cut down on voter fraud, and we all know that the democrats love fraudulent votes.
    The last report I heard indicated that approximately 1 in every 3.5 million votes cast in the last couple decades worth of vote was what people would consider "voter fraud", characterized by someone whos is not eligible to vote or someone who has already voted, successfully voting. I think it was less 250 legitimate cases out of almost 900 million votes analyzed. 80% of those who didn't know they were ineligible (generally elderly), 20% or around 1 in 17 million, were probably aware they shouldn't be voting. Given that the elderly voted about 55% in Romney's favor and 45% in Obama's, that 80% is likely evenly split.

    The real perception of voter fraud is generally caused by the way that rolls are purged and the amount of time that must pass before people are purged due to inactivity (deceased, moved away, etc). That is how a precinct can have more registered voters than inhabitants. The truth of fradulent practices relative to the vote is the mechinations by both sides to prevent members of the other party from voting, and it's rampant. That and redistricting to force a predetermined conclusion. That makes votes irrelevant for both sides by a large statistical margin, discouraging participation and deflating trust in the merits of the electoral process. Voting should obviously be free, easy to do and secured with a real time database that monitors potential registrations issues proactively and nationwide.

    We don't need a person's ID to tell if they're eligible to vote, so here's a better idea. Let literally everyone vote, immigrant, illegal, elderly, child, whatever: encourage them, mandata participation, get as many people to vote as possible... and systematically remove all those that are in fact ineligible due to residency, citizenship, age, pulse rate,felony status, etc, etc, whatever. Mistakes and confusion gone, instantly. That way no one has to wonder if they're techincally able to cast a vote, yes they are... it just won't count towards anything if they don't qualify. Other databases can be used to easily check qualification.
    msndrstood likes this.
    10-19-2013 11:45 PM
  4. plumbrich's Avatar
    I usually don't post much on the subject on the internet but been out of work the past 3 weeks and have another 8 weeks to go. Been out with back surgery and was planning on getting this done March of 2014 but with the Obama care coming decided to do it before it was in effect in case I couldn't afford the rising rate that were sure to come. Well the mail came and my rates from Blue Cross Blue shield will be rising 160 per month and my wife's 140 per month. That's an instant rise of $300.00 a month on a already struggling budget. I have had insurance with them since 1984 and have struggled many times through the years so my family would have the care they needed.

    In the early years my wife worked a job they had insurance and my job (Construction) did not. After insurance, daycare and taxes were taken from her check and we subtracted her gas she made 10 to 40 dollars a week. Once her job ended we had to figure a way to get insurance through a job or independently. Problem was Construction work in my area collapsed at the same time. Being physically fit with no handicaps I could not see being on any government hand out. I hit the road with 120 dollars in my pocket and slept in my car chasing jobs that would pay enough to get insured and support the family. I found a good one 320 miles away. Being away from my family sucked for all sides but it was necessary to survive.

    Fortunately since that time the kids are grown and sometimes between then and now I was able to make enough to not worry about insurance and finances at times. Now I have a decent job and work mowing grass and other odd jobs when I am off work and able to pay my bills and save a little towards retirement. However with the increase in gas food and day to day expenses I am not able to do this very much anymore and with the added $300.00 it will not be possible to save but only scrounge by. Once my back is well I will once again travel to other locations to work so I can make enough to pay these added bills and insurance cost I do not want to have to do this and leave my wife. However it is what I need to do to have some kind of future for I and her.

    It burns my **** when people won't do what it takes to take care of their own. If your truly handicapped in some way I do want you to have the care you need and don't mind my taxes going to help. If you are physically able and can't find work in a 25 mile radius to do what is needed for your family then try 50 miles and so on. If you end up in the oil fields 1,000 miles from home as a payroll clerk or a grunt or across the state at a factory you do what it takes. Wanting me to pay your insurance or government check because you don't want the lower paying local job or just because you want to continue to live in your comfort zone of your town or city is an unacceptable reason for me to have to do it to pay taxes to give to you.

    The link to the "Inside fox news lie machine" is humorous. It is a show on fox news channel as well as Piers Morgan show on CNN news channel. They are shows on these networks to fill in between the news not the news. I feel Hannity is to the right that Bill Maher is to the left. They are so far out there and would follow their party into hell and never find fault in their beliefs. They both are closed minded followers and try to give the illusion they think for themselves but in reality they can't and both would and do manufacture lies and hate. Unfortunately there are people out there in this world that would believe Hannity and Piers Morgan shows as news just because of the channel they are aired on.

    Somewhere back on the thread someone eluded I somehow supported slavery. Being the descendant of slaves I in no way support any form of slavery past or present.
    10-20-2013 07:13 AM
  5. Aquila's Avatar
    I usually don't post much on the subject on the internet but been out of work the past 3 weeks and have another 8 weeks to go. Been out with back surgery and was planning on getting this done March of 2014 but with the Obama care coming decided to do it before it was in effect in case I couldn't afford the rising rate that were sure to come. Well the mail came and my rates from Blue Cross Blue shield will be rising 160 per month and my wife's 140 per month. That's an instant rise of $300.00 a month on a already struggling budget. I have had insurance with them since 1984 and have struggled many times through the years so my family would have the care they needed.

    In the early years my wife worked a job they had insurance and my job (Construction) did not. After insurance, daycare and taxes were taken from her check and we subtracted her gas she made 10 to 40 dollars a week. Once her job ended we had to figure a way to get insurance through a job or independently. Problem was Construction work in my area collapsed at the same time. Being physically fit with no handicaps I could not see being on any government hand out. I hit the road with 120 dollars in my pocket and slept in my car chasing jobs that would pay enough to get insured and support the family. I found a good one 320 miles away. Being away from my family sucked for all sides but it was necessary to survive.

    Fortunately since that time the kids are grown and sometimes between then and now I was able to make enough to not worry about insurance and finances at times. Now I have a decent job and work mowing grass and other odd jobs when I am off work and able to pay my bills and save a little towards retirement. However with the increase in gas food and day to day expenses I am not able to do this very much anymore and with the added $300.00 it will not be possible to save but only scrounge by. Once my back is well I will once again travel to other locations to work so I can make enough to pay these added bills and insurance cost I do not want to have to do this and leave my wife. However it is what I need to do to have some kind of future for I and her.

    It burns my **** when people won't do what it takes to take care of their own. If your truly handicapped in some way I do want you to have the care you need and don't mind my taxes going to help. If you are physically able and can't find work in a 25 mile radius to do what is needed for your family then try 50 miles and so on. If you end up in the oil fields 1,000 miles from home as a payroll clerk or a grunt or across the state at a factory you do what it takes. Wanting me to pay your insurance or government check because you don't want the lower paying local job or just because you want to continue to live in your comfort zone of your town or city is an unacceptable reason for me to have to do it to pay taxes to give to you.

    The link to the "Inside fox news lie machine" is humorous. It is a show on fox news channel as well as Piers Morgan show on CNN news channel. They are shows on these networks to fill in between the news not the news. I feel Hannity is to the right that Bill Maher is to the left. They are so far out there and would follow their party into hell and never find fault in their beliefs. They both are closed minded followers and try to give the illusion they think for themselves but in reality they can't and both would and do manufacture lies and hate. Unfortunately there are people out there in this world that would believe Hannity and Piers Morgan shows as news just because of the channel they are aired on.

    Somewhere back on the thread someone eluded I somehow supported slavery. Being the descendant of slaves I in no way support any form of slavery past or present.
    The story of your sacrifices is one of the very reasons that we need the people to get together and remove corporate congress, dems, tea, all of them and focus on solutions that do provide needed help and minimize the burden felt. That sounds like a real demand for optimization. A new Congress without the conflict of interest that all current incumbents have is sorely needed.

    Out of curiosity, have you shopped the exchanges? There may be other carriers not trying to exploit you through premiums.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    10-20-2013 07:37 AM
  6. llamabreath's Avatar
    We don't need a person's ID to tell if they're eligible to vote, so here's a better idea. Let literally everyone vote, immigrant, illegal, elderly, child, whatever: encourage them, mandata participation, get as many people to vote as possible... and systematically remove all those that are in fact ineligible due to residency, citizenship, age, pulse rate,felony status, etc, etc, whatever. Mistakes and confusion gone, instantly. That way no one has to wonder if they're techincally able to cast a vote, yes they are... it just won't count towards anything if they don't qualify. Other databases can be used to easily check qualification.
    Always enjoy your outside-of-the-box thinking, but can you imagine how long we would have to wait for election results this way? Weeks? Couple of months? The molasses would be even thicker than it is now.


    Signatures, shmignatures...
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-20-2013 07:38 AM
  7. Aquila's Avatar
    Always enjoy your outside-of-the-box thinking, but can you imagine how long we would have to wait for election results this way? Weeks? Couple of months? The molasses would be even thicker than it is now.


    Signatures, shmignatures...
    I'd do it with software, all locations count and transmit in real time and are never offline. Keep it transparent and honest.

    We don't currently decide based on the vote anyways. The news reports primarily on exit polls. Some types of ballots are due in December, but very few areas count votes in real time or on election night.

    Google can sell the software to them, just don't let the company that flubbed the aca site near the program.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    10-20-2013 07:44 AM
  8. llamabreath's Avatar
    I'd do it with software, all locations count and transmit in real time and are never offline. Keep it transparent and honest.

    We don't currently decide based on the vote anyways. The news reports primarily on exit polls. Some types of ballots are due in December, but very few areas count votes in real time or on election night.

    Google can sell the software to them, just don't let the company that flubbed the aca site near the program.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    Hmmm... do you mean with the same 'transparency' that Obama promised during his campaign tours?

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-20-2013 07:48 AM
  9. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    I usually don't post much on the subject on the internet but been out of work the past 3 weeks and have another 8 weeks to go. Been out with back surgery and was planning on getting this done March of 2014 but with the Obama care coming decided to do it before it was in effect in case I couldn't afford the rising rate that were sure to come. Well the mail came and my rates from Blue Cross Blue shield will be rising 160 per month and my wife's 140 per month. That's an instant rise of $300.00 a month on a already struggling budget. I have had insurance with them since 1984 and have struggled many times through the years so my family would have the care they needed.

    In the early years my wife worked a job they had insurance and my job (Construction) did not. After insurance, daycare and taxes were taken from her check and we subtracted her gas she made 10 to 40 dollars a week. Once her job ended we had to figure a way to get insurance through a job or independently. Problem was Construction work in my area collapsed at the same time. Being physically fit with no handicaps I could not see being on any government hand out. I hit the road with 120 dollars in my pocket and slept in my car chasing jobs that would pay enough to get insured and support the family. I found a good one 320 miles away. Being away from my family sucked for all sides but it was necessary to survive.

    Fortunately since that time the kids are grown and sometimes between then and now I was able to make enough to not worry about insurance and finances at times. Now I have a decent job and work mowing grass and other odd jobs when I am off work and able to pay my bills and save a little towards retirement. However with the increase in gas food and day to day expenses I am not able to do this very much anymore and with the added $300.00 it will not be possible to save but only scrounge by. Once my back is well I will once again travel to other locations to work so I can make enough to pay these added bills and insurance cost I do not want to have to do this and leave my wife. However it is what I need to do to have some kind of future for I and her.

    It burns my **** when people won't do what it takes to take care of their own. If your truly handicapped in some way I do want you to have the care you need and don't mind my taxes going to help. If you are physically able and can't find work in a 25 mile radius to do what is needed for your family then try 50 miles and so on. If you end up in the oil fields 1,000 miles from home as a payroll clerk or a grunt or across the state at a factory you do what it takes. Wanting me to pay your insurance or government check because you don't want the lower paying local job or just because you want to continue to live in your comfort zone of your town or city is an unacceptable reason for me to have to do it to pay taxes to give to you.

    The link to the "Inside fox news lie machine" is humorous. It is a show on fox news channel as well as Piers Morgan show on CNN news channel. They are shows on these networks to fill in between the news not the news. I feel Hannity is to the right that Bill Maher is to the left. They are so far out there and would follow their party into hell and never find fault in their beliefs. They both are closed minded followers and try to give the illusion they think for themselves but in reality they can't and both would and do manufacture lies and hate. Unfortunately there are people out there in this world that would believe Hannity and Piers Morgan shows as news just because of the channel they are aired on.

    Somewhere back on the thread someone eluded I somehow supported slavery. Being the descendant of slaves I in no way support any form of slavery past or present.
    I may be offbase or wrong, but I believe if you don't pay taxes or aren't truly handicapped, you shouldn't have the right to vote. Its too easy for people to vote in money for themselves. This is just my opinion.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    10-20-2013 07:50 AM
  10. Aquila's Avatar
    Hmmm... do you mean with the same 'transparency' that Obama promised during his campaign tours?

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    No, my definition, not a politician's. lol

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-20-2013 07:50 AM
  11. llamabreath's Avatar
    No, my definition, not a politician's. lol

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    Well, the honesty and transparency you (and I) seek in government is just a dream and as long as it's run by humans.... always will be out of reach.

    Bring in the robots.

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-20-2013 07:53 AM
  12. Aquila's Avatar
    Well, the honesty and transparency you (and I) seek in government is just a dream and as long as it's run by humans.... always will be out of reach.

    Bring in the robots.

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    Hear hear, positronic neural networks for the win.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-20-2013 07:57 AM
  13. llamabreath's Avatar
    Hear hear, positronic neural networks for the win.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    LOL

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    10-20-2013 07:57 AM
  14. nolittdroid's Avatar
    I may be offbase or wrong, but I believe if you don't pay taxes or aren't truly handicapped, you shouldn't have the right to vote. Its too easy for people to vote in money for themselves. This is just my opinion.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    So you should be governed without any say in who is governing you? There is no need to be ableist.

    ✌SG3/iPad2
    10-20-2013 04:42 PM
  15. msndrstood's Avatar
    I may be offbase or wrong, but I believe if you don't pay taxes or aren't truly handicapped, you shouldn't have the right to vote. Its too easy for people to vote in money for themselves. This is just my opinion.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    Am I reading this right?

    I hope not.


    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    10-20-2013 05:51 PM
  16. JW4VZW's Avatar
    The last report I heard indicated that approximately 1 in every 3.5 million votes cast in the last couple decades worth of vote was what people would consider "voter fraud", characterized by someone whos is not eligible to vote or someone who has already voted, successfully voting. I think it was less 250 legitimate cases out of almost 900 million votes analyzed. 80% of those who didn't know they were ineligible (generally elderly), 20% or around 1 in 17 million, were probably aware they shouldn't be voting. Given that the elderly voted about 55% in Romney's favor and 45% in Obama's, that 80% is likely evenly split.

    The real perception of voter fraud is generally caused by the way that rolls are purged and the amount of time that must pass before people are purged due to inactivity (deceased, moved away, etc). That is how a precinct can have more registered voters than inhabitants. The truth of fradulent practices relative to the vote is the mechinations by both sides to prevent members of the other party from voting, and it's rampant. That and redistricting to force a predetermined conclusion. That makes votes irrelevant for both sides by a large statistical margin, discouraging participation and deflating trust in the merits of the electoral process. Voting should obviously be free, easy to do and secured with a real time database that monitors potential registrations issues proactively and nationwide.

    We don't need a person's ID to tell if they're eligible to vote, so here's a better idea. Let literally everyone vote, immigrant, illegal, elderly, child, whatever: encourage them, mandata participation, get as many people to vote as possible... and systematically remove all those that are in fact ineligible due to residency, citizenship, age, pulse rate,felony status, etc, etc, whatever. Mistakes and confusion gone, instantly. That way no one has to wonder if they're techincally able to cast a vote, yes they are... it just won't count towards anything if they don't qualify. Other databases can be used to easily check qualification.
    That report is no where near the numbers that I have heard. At any rate, 1 in every 3.5 million fraudulent votes is still 1 in every 3.5 million too many.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-20-2013 06:38 PM
  17. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    That report is no where near the numbers that I have heard. At any rate, 1 in every 3.5 million fraudulent votes is still 1 in every 3.5 million too many.
    What would be your guaranteed way of preventing all fraud in voting?

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    palandri likes this.
    10-20-2013 06:39 PM
  18. JW4VZW's Avatar
    I may be offbase or wrong, but I believe if you don't pay taxes or aren't truly handicapped, you shouldn't have the right to vote. Its too easy for people to vote in money for themselves. This is just my opinion.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    In a way that makes sense. I am not sure that I agree with it one hundred percent, but I can see where it might work.
    10-20-2013 06:40 PM
  19. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I may be offbase or wrong, but I believe if you don't pay taxes or aren't truly handicapped, you shouldn't have the right to vote. Its too easy for people to vote in money for themselves. This is just my opinion.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    While it goes against the spirit of democracy, there is a lot of truth to this.

    It has to do with invested interest. If you pay nothing in, you have no invested interest in the success of the whatever you are talking about past the benefits you receive from it. It is like living is someone else's house for free. You benefit from being there and you pay nothing for being there, but have a say in the finances of the house. Why would you want to "vote" to pay for being there when you could "vote" for more of the house's finances to go to yourself?

    You could use the same analogy with receiving benefits from a companies profits and having a vote as a share holder without actually owning a sake in that company. You have no investment, but you are still receiving benefits, thus you are not going to "vote" to protect and increase the money you put in. You are only going to "vote" for more benefits for yourself because if the company fails, you have lost nothing.

    Obviously this goes against a lot of what the country stands for, but so does many laws in place already arguably.

    Democracy will cease to exist when the people realize they can bribe themselves with their own money. Democracy has long sense been dead when majority of the "people's" money is paid by the minority of the people.

    Foot note: yes i realize that we have a representative republic and not a true democracy.
    10-21-2013 08:43 AM
  20. palandri's Avatar
    I usually don't post much on the subject on the internet but been out of work the past 3 weeks and have another 8 weeks to go. Been out with back surgery and was planning on getting this done March of 2014 but with the Obama care coming decided to do it before it was in effect in case I couldn't afford the rising rate that were sure to come. Well the mail came and my rates from Blue Cross Blue shield will be rising 160 per month and my wife's 140 per month. That's an instant rise of $300.00 a month on a already struggling budget. I have had insurance with them since 1984 and have struggled many times through the years so my family would have the care they needed.

    In the early years my wife worked a job they had insurance and my job (Construction) did not. After insurance, daycare and taxes were taken from her check and we subtracted her gas she made 10 to 40 dollars a week. Once her job ended we had to figure a way to get insurance through a job or independently. Problem was Construction work in my area collapsed at the same time. Being physically fit with no handicaps I could not see being on any government hand out. I hit the road with 120 dollars in my pocket and slept in my car chasing jobs that would pay enough to get insured and support the family. I found a good one 320 miles away. Being away from my family sucked for all sides but it was necessary to survive.

    Fortunately since that time the kids are grown and sometimes between then and now I was able to make enough to not worry about insurance and finances at times. Now I have a decent job and work mowing grass and other odd jobs when I am off work and able to pay my bills and save a little towards retirement. However with the increase in gas food and day to day expenses I am not able to do this very much anymore and with the added $300.00 it will not be possible to save but only scrounge by. Once my back is well I will once again travel to other locations to work so I can make enough to pay these added bills and insurance cost I do not want to have to do this and leave my wife. However it is what I need to do to have some kind of future for I and her.

    It burns my **** when people won't do what it takes to take care of their own. If your truly handicapped in some way I do want you to have the care you need and don't mind my taxes going to help. If you are physically able and can't find work in a 25 mile radius to do what is needed for your family then try 50 miles and so on. If you end up in the oil fields 1,000 miles from home as a payroll clerk or a grunt or across the state at a factory you do what it takes. Wanting me to pay your insurance or government check because you don't want the lower paying local job or just because you want to continue to live in your comfort zone of your town or city is an unacceptable reason for me to have to do it to pay taxes to give to you.

    The link to the "Inside fox news lie machine" is humorous. It is a show on fox news channel as well as Piers Morgan show on CNN news channel. They are shows on these networks to fill in between the news not the news. I feel Hannity is to the right that Bill Maher is to the left. They are so far out there and would follow their party into hell and never find fault in their beliefs. They both are closed minded followers and try to give the illusion they think for themselves but in reality they can't and both would and do manufacture lies and hate. Unfortunately there are people out there in this world that would believe Hannity and Piers Morgan shows as news just because of the channel they are aired on.

    Somewhere back on the thread someone eluded I somehow supported slavery. Being the descendant of slaves I in no way support any form of slavery past or present.
    Here's what I am seeing from what you are saying, you may qualify for the ACA at a reduced rate, but you won't do that, because you don't want a government hand out?
    10-21-2013 08:44 AM
  21. llamabreath's Avatar
    Here's what I am seeing from what you are saying, you may qualify for the ACA at a reduced rate, but you won't do that, because you don't want a government hand out?
    Noble, honorable and hard-working....

    Hardly the qualities to look up to anymore, right?

    The rapid degradation of this society is eye-opening.







    Signatures, shmignatures...
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-21-2013 09:07 AM
  22. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Here's what I am seeing from what you are saying, you may qualify for the ACA at a reduced rate, but you won't do that, because you don't want a government hand out?
    He may be over the line for qualification?

    Or maybe he is just the type of person that does not like being reliant on others. Maybe he likes to work for all he has instead of taking the government freebee that just destroyed the insurance he enjoyed.

    The ones this law is going to hurt the most are the middle class Americans. The ones just over the line of being able to get the "public option"(i am not even sure if that is appropriate verbiage at this point). Premiums for all private insurance are sky rocketing and have no signs of getting better.

    And for the people just bellow the line, the government just effectively took away all choice for private insurance.

    This is all intelligent design. The writers of the law knew all of this would happen
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-21-2013 09:27 AM
  23. Aquila's Avatar
    He may be over the line for qualification?
    That's why "may" is used, because we don't know. I asked earlier if he'd checked out other options.

    Or maybe he is just the type of person that does not like being reliant on others. Maybe he likes to work for all he has instead of taking the government freebee that just destroyed the insurance he enjoyed.
    So, I definitely get this sentiment and wonder where the balance is between that and doing what's most optimal for the family. In an extreme case where you live and work 1000 miles away from your children in order to support them, completely missing them growing up, it should be easy to see how some people might have different priorities and make different calls.

    The ones this law is going to hurt the most are the middle class Americans.
    Yep. There sure aren't any giant corporations or insurance companies complaining. They just got rich. The well off are not hurt at all by this and those that the law helps are also better off, the people who didn't have coverage before because they couldn't afford it or companies would refuse to cover them. That only leaves the middle class. I heard a theory, no information to support it, so more of a "speculation", that people think this law was intended to fail so that next time a healthcare law goes up for a vote, it's a single payer system that removes the insurance agencies from the equation of public health. That'd be an interesting debate to watch.
    10-21-2013 10:46 AM
  24. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    That's why "may" is used, because we don't know. I asked earlier if he'd checked out other options.



    So, I definitely get this sentiment and wonder where the balance is between that and doing what's most optimal for the family. In an extreme case where you live and work 1000 miles away from your children in order to support them, completely missing them growing up, it should be easy to see how some people might have different priorities and make different calls.



    Yep. There sure aren't any giant corporations or insurance companies complaining. They just got rich. The well off are not hurt at all by this and those that the law helps are also better off, the people who didn't have coverage before because they couldn't afford it or companies would refuse to cover them. That only leaves the middle class. I heard a theory, no information to support it, so more of a "speculation", that people think this law was intended to fail so that next time a healthcare law goes up for a vote, it's a single payer system that removes the insurance agencies from the equation of public health. That'd be an interesting debate to watch.
    I have no proof either, but that seems to be the general consensus this law setup to fail. If you remember back when all this first started, it was thrown about that they're goal was single payer but they couldn't get enough support for it. Many people thought that this ACA was just a stepping stone. That's one of the many reasons a lot of people don't like the bill.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-21-2013 11:15 AM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    Middle class is a really funny term. Most people think that they're in it, but if our choices are impoverished class, working class, middle class, executive class and upper class.... people in the middle class are generally professionals, highly skilled tradesmen, very small business owners, most attorneys, physicians, etc. According to studies, the middle class tends to be college educated, live in the suburbs, own multiple vehicles and own or have a mortgage on their home. That doesn't describe most of the people that I encounter that identify as members of the group.

    While politicians clearly do not care about the middle class, regardless of what adjective it's attached to, the term is thrown around as too encompassing from a statistical point of view.

    According to 2011 data, those living below the poverty level constituted about 8% of the population, with the "working class" representing the next 22%, the middle class holding 30%, the executive class at 33% and the upper class at 10%, from a distribution standpoint. I could deal with that pretty well as the central groups are all fairly similar in size and the ends are similar. My issue seems to be entirely on the usage of the term, because it appears that something much closer to all three of the center three groups, or around 80% of the country self identifies as "middle class" and/or is referred to that way by media, politicians etc when the majority, 65% of them, are in fact in a different segment that is rarely addressed. If middle class just means, "not starving to death and does not own a jet".... derp, why exactly do we want to make that class disappear?

    /end rant
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-21-2013 11:19 AM
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