11-14-2013 07:34 PM
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  1. plumbrich's Avatar
    America the largest economy (GDP) in the world. It has more freedoms than any other country in the world. More people from other countries come to American to become U.S. citizens.

    Then I come to threads like these with people wanting to be like XYZ country. Or people saying look at what we did by banning guns or look at health care in my country. Bottom line is their country or the one people are trying to emulate are NOT the largest economies and do NOT have the freedoms and opportunities we as Americans have.

    I don't want to be like Australia the U.K. or any other country, "I want to be American". If you are more in line with other countries then you should go there. Live the dream of gun control and there health care system. All the counties mentioned that are so great all look to the U.S. when things get bad whether it be war or there economy.

    Our national debt is horrible and needs to be addressed immediately. The current administrations answer is to raise the debt ceiling once again to pay for Obama care. For those that want Obama care fine but let's pay the bills we already have before adding a new one. Pass the budget now with as many cuts as possible and continue each year to cut even more and once the national debt is under control then look at avenues to change health care law in a slow methodical way we can afford.

    BTW there is no such thing as free health care for everyone. There is no such thing as free anything. Even freedom comes with a cost..
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    10-11-2013 07:34 AM
  2. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Dens are quick to pull the race card.
    You are not lying.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Refresh my memory. What's this truth you speak of?
    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
    Anytime one speaks out against obama they are called a racist.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-11-2013 03:26 PM
  3. Wiley_11's Avatar
    10-11-2013 08:01 PM
  4. Wiley_11's Avatar
    10-11-2013 08:16 PM
  5. Fairclough's Avatar
    America the largest economy (GDP) in the world. It has more freedoms than any other country in the world. More people from other countries come to American to become U.S. citizens.

    Then I come to threads like these with people wanting to be like XYZ country. Or people saying look at what we did by banning guns or look at health care in my country. Bottom line is their country or the one people are trying to emulate are NOT the largest economies and do NOT have the freedoms and opportunities we as Americans have.

    I don't want to be like Australia the U.K. or any other country, "I want to be American". If you are more in line with other countries then you should go there. Live the dream of gun control and there health care system. All the counties mentioned that are so great all look to the U.S. when things get bad whether it be war or there economy.

    Our national debt is horrible and needs to be addressed immediately. The current administrations answer is to raise the debt ceiling once again to pay for Obama care. For those that want Obama care fine but let's pay the bills we already have before adding a new one. Pass the budget now with as many cuts as possible and continue each year to cut even more and once the national debt is under control then look at avenues to change health care law in a slow methodical way we can afford.

    BTW there is no such thing as free health care for everyone. There is no such thing as free anything. Even freedom comes with a cost..
    I believe most the suggestions are not the 'change' but to improve your nation - similar to why law gets updated.
    In raw scales yes america has the largest GDP, per capita it is 7th. First I will start on your statement, "look the the U.S when thongs get bad where it be war or the economy. My nation is the #1 performing economy during the recession and post. Secondly Recently we have been criticized for writing blank cheques to the States when in financial trouble or has hit a hard time (9/11). Secondly as for the War comment, the only time we have been helped was in the Pacific ocean when Japan tried to isolate us from helping in the war. Thirdly ever since our treaty almost every war (exception of PNG - were the US was not involed) since we were called in under our alliance. So when you say that statement it comes across ridiculously uneducated. Fourthly, for global events e.g. the Tsunami per capita we donated 8x the states.

    Can you show me what Freedoms I do not have being Australian? This reminds me for some reason when NYC Police called a Belgium Diplomate a terrorist this year for feeding her baby and saying it could have a bomb inside. Does that sound like freedom? I found it funny as she had diplomatic immunity, wasn't breaking the law but yet was prohibited to do an legal act. MMm freedom.

    As for " Live the dream of gun control and there health care system" Would you like to know why we have it, we had a massacre almost every year for 16 years. The last straw was when a mentally ill man took an Ar15 and killed 35 innocent men, women and children in Port Arthur in 1996 - within 2 months our conservative party launched gun control (wearing bullet proof vests for their fear of their lives while passing it) since than its been known as one of the greatest legislations as since we have not had 1 massacre from 1 every year prior.

    The Idea of a free health care system, came from the belief if the economy can be grow by going to war and killing people - why can't it be made from helping our own. It also worked out to be a lot cheaper. Back to your original statement, we rarely actually seek the US for assistance. Our closest military partner in history has been New Zealand (hence ANZAC's Australian New Zealand Army Corp.), we also are planning relations with China (our largest business partner) in this field except our alliance with States prevents a written treaty with south east Asia area.

    Yes Debt is an issue - however I am sure some of it from your economic stimulus packages during the recession which would of held you out of it for the most part.
    "BTW there is no such thing as free health care for everyone. There is no such thing as free anything. Even freedom comes with a cost.."
    Please elaborate, I understand it comes out of tax's - however it is significantly cheaper than private as the government bulk buys - the private sector than has to compete with the public driving costs down. Yes the wealthier would pay more for the lower class, but that is also redistributing the wealth protecting the lower class of society so you don't develop slums.
    Back to my previous comment can you please tell me the freedoms I have lost. Gun totting? Because if i go to the range and get a permit I can gun tot all i like as long as the gun is at the range for the first year and i am genuine enthusiast / going to the range x times a year. Before you make assumptions about our culture, you should really check if its what you believe it is as we were known as Little America for similar values - its only in the past 10 years we have diverged on key issues.

    Once again, our, well least my comments is advice from what I enjoy about my nation - it isn't forced upon. Systems change over time, remember the US had slavery once... debate changed that.
    msndrstood and craZDude like this.
    10-12-2013 05:34 AM
  6. llamabreath's Avatar
    http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.ht...0908_pageNum_1




    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    10-12-2013 05:48 AM
  7. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    I believe most the suggestions are not the 'change' but to improve your nation - similar to why law gets updated.
    In raw scales yes america has the largest GDP, per capita it is 7th. First I will start on your statement, "look the the U.S when thongs get bad where it be war or the economy. My nation is the #1 performing economy during the recession and post. Secondly Recently we have been criticized for writing blank cheques to the States when in financial trouble or has hit a hard time (9/11). Secondly as for the War comment, the only time we have been helped was in the Pacific ocean when Japan tried to isolate us from helping in the war. Thirdly ever since our treaty almost every war (exception of PNG - were the US was not involed) since we were called in under our alliance. So when you say that statement it comes across ridiculously uneducated. Fourthly, for global events e.g. the Tsunami per capita we donated 8x the states.

    Can you show me what Freedoms I do not have being Australian? This reminds me for some reason when NYC Police called a Belgium Diplomate a terrorist this year for feeding her baby and saying it could have a bomb inside. Does that sound like freedom? I found it funny as she had diplomatic immunity, wasn't breaking the law but yet was prohibited to do an legal act. MMm freedom.

    As for " Live the dream of gun control and there health care system" Would you like to know why we have it, we had a massacre almost every year for 16 years. The last straw was when a mentally ill man took an Ar15 and killed 35 innocent men, women and children in Port Arthur in 1996 - within 2 months our conservative party launched gun control (wearing bullet proof vests for their fear of their lives while passing it) since than its been known as one of the greatest legislations as since we have not had 1 massacre from 1 every year prior.

    The Idea of a free health care system, came from the belief if the economy can be grow by going to war and killing people - why can't it be made from helping our own. It also worked out to be a lot cheaper. Back to your original statement, we rarely actually seek the US for assistance. Our closest military partner in history has been New Zealand (hence ANZAC's Australian New Zealand Army Corp.), we also are planning relations with China (our largest business partner) in this field except our alliance with States prevents a written treaty with south east Asia area.

    Yes Debt is an issue - however I am sure some of it from your economic stimulus packages during the recession which would of held you out of it for the most part.
    "BTW there is no such thing as free health care for everyone. There is no such thing as free anything. Even freedom comes with a cost.."
    Please elaborate, I understand it comes out of tax's - however it is significantly cheaper than private as the government bulk buys - the private sector than has to compete with the public driving costs down. Yes the wealthier would pay more for the lower class, but that is also redistributing the wealth protecting the lower class of society so you don't develop slums.
    Back to my previous comment can you please tell me the freedoms I have lost. Gun totting? Because if i go to the range and get a permit I can gun tot all i like as long as the gun is at the range for the first year and i am genuine enthusiast / going to the range x times a year. Before you make assumptions about our culture, you should really check if its what you believe it is as we were known as Little America for similar values - its only in the past 10 years we have diverged on key issues.

    Once again, our, well least my comments is advice from what I enjoy about my nation - it isn't forced upon. Systems change over time, remember the US had slavery once... debate changed that.
    The problem is, you're trying to either fix whats been working or make it worse with government involvement.
    oz123, plumbrich and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-12-2013 06:17 AM
  8. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    The problem is, you're trying to either fix whats been working or make it worse with government involvement.
    Explain how what they've done hasn't been beneficial to society as a whole.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
    10-12-2013 08:21 AM
  9. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.ht...0908_pageNum_1




    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    Dropping a link to a story without any commentary from you is almost as bad as news outlets cherry picking stories that back up their position and pretending that's all that happens.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
    10-12-2013 08:40 AM
  10. llamabreath's Avatar
    Dropping a link to a story without any commentary from you is almost as bad as news outlets cherry picking stories that back up their position and pretending that's all that happens.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
    I was sleep-posting.

    Can't comment about it right now either, but i'll get to it later.

    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    10-12-2013 10:15 AM
  11. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Explain how what they've done hasn't been beneficial to society as a whole.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
    Obamacare: a person couldn't afford insurance before obamacare. Now, they can't afford it after, plus they get fined by the IRS for not being able to now.

    Gun control: disarmament of a country's citizenry so they can decide what they want you to do whenever they want it.

    Debt: not paying what is owed hoping that if you do not address it, the problem goes away.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    plumbrich and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-12-2013 12:12 PM
  12. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Explain how what they've done hasn't been beneficial to society as a whole.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
    As per your question, I don't know enough about Australian Society to answer, but to automatically assume something that "works" for their society would work for the US is arrogant and ignorant. If he is OK letting his government control his healthcare and trusting it with his protection then more power to him.

    Me personally, I would rather have responsibility for myself and all the risk that comes with that. If someone tries to mug me on the side of the road, I have the ability to protect myself and my family. If I don't don't like my healthcare coverage, I have the freedom of finding a new provider of similar price sense there is not a public system destroying the private. I know that I can go out and be successful without having to worry about the government telling me that I should be paying more so other able bodied people can get free stuff.

    But sadly all of this being threatened in America and one day soon it might all be a memory. We will become reliant on our government like the rest of the world and one freedom after another will be widdled away. By the time everyone wakes up, there will be no way to go back without massive bloodshed. The government will have all the power and control. It will only take one "Hitler" to abuse the systems meant to protect the citizens. Then it will be the equivalent of slavery. Except it will be the entire population.
    10-12-2013 12:21 PM
  13. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    As per your question, I don't know enough about Australian Society to answer, but to automatically assume something that "works" for their society would work for the US is arrogant and ignorant. If he is OK letting his government control his healthcare and trusting it with his protection then more power to him.

    Me personally, I would rather have responsibility for myself and all the risk that comes with that. If someone tries to mug me on the side of the road, I have the ability to protect myself and my family. If I don't don't like my healthcare coverage, I have the freedom of finding a new provider of similar price sense there is not a public system destroying the private. I know that I can go out and be successful without having to worry about the government telling me that I should be paying more so other able bodied people can get free stuff.

    But sadly all of this being threatened in America and one day soon it might all be a memory. We will become reliant on our government like the rest of the world and one freedom after another will be widdled away. By the time everyone wakes up, there will be no way to go back without massive bloodshed. The government will have all the power and control. It will only take one "Hitler" to abuse the systems meant to protect the citizens. Then it will be the equivalent of slavery. Except it will be the entire population.
    Nobody made the assumption that it would work, but many are making the assumption that it won't work. This is about more than healthcare.

    But since you brought that up, there are stories about it raising cost for some just as there are stories of people getting coverage that didn't previously qualify for whatever reason.

    The answer isn't always "work harder" either, because societal circumstances are beyond any one person's control. My area, for example, is reliant on the steel industry for much of the local economy. When that industry suffers like it has for the past few years the entire local economy suffers. Small businesses close, people get laid off so less money flows through, etc. How can any individual fix that problem and change the circumstances of the situation?

    Luckily my Congressman helped get some legislation passed that helped the steel industry. So things in my local area are starting to pick up now.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    10-12-2013 01:02 PM
  14. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Nobody made the assumption that it would work, but many are making the assumption that it won't work. This is about more than healthcare.

    But since you brought that up, there are stories about it raising cost for some just as there are stories of people getting coverage that didn't previously qualify for whatever reason.

    The answer isn't always "work harder" either, because societal circumstances are beyond any one person's control. My area, for example, is reliant on the steel industry for much of the local economy. When that industry suffers like it has for the past few years the entire local economy suffers. Small businesses close, people get laid off so less money flows through, etc. How can any individual fix that problem and change the circumstances of the situation?

    Luckily my Congressman helped get some legislation passed that helped the steel industry. So things in my local area are starting to pick up now.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    Everything I'm seeing is it may help a few, but it punishes the many.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-12-2013 01:31 PM
  15. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Nobody made the assumption that it would work, but many are making the assumption that it won't work. This is about more than healthcare.

    But since you brought that up, there are stories about it raising cost for some just as there are stories of people getting coverage that didn't previously qualify for whatever reason.

    The answer isn't always "work harder" either, because societal circumstances are beyond any one person's control. My area, for example, is reliant on the steel industry for much of the local economy. When that industry suffers like it has for the past few years the entire local economy suffers. Small businesses close, people get laid off so less money flows through, etc. How can any individual fix that problem and change the circumstances of the situation?

    Luckily my Congressman helped get some legislation passed that helped the steel industry. So things in my local area are starting to pick up now.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    I am actually not against the mandate for preexisting conditions. Even though it does punish the many for the few.

    If your job is gone, you do what you have to to support yourself and your family. If that means move, you move. If that means work multiple low level jobs until you can find something better. You do that. In this day and age, no one is forced to stay in a specific job or area. If someone hits hard times, they should do everything within their power survive.
    plumbrich and mrsmumbles like this.
    10-12-2013 03:13 PM
  16. llamabreath's Avatar
    Dropping a link to a story without any commentary from you is almost as bad as news outlets cherry picking stories that back up their position and pretending that's all that happens.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
    You're right (and i seriously hate that news outlets are biased at all) (news should be news, facts and nothing else), but I don't think a comment would've made a difference.

    Those on the right would nod their heads in agreement as they read it and those on the left would shake their heads with disagreement as they read it (especially if they noticed the URL).




    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    msndrstood likes this.
    10-12-2013 03:29 PM
  17. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I am actually not against the mandate for preexisting conditions. Even though it does punish the many for the few.

    If your job is gone, you do what you have to to support yourself and your family. If that means move, you move. If that means work multiple low level jobs until you can find something better. You do that. In this day and age, no one is forced to stay in a specific job or area. If someone hits hard times, they should do everything within their power survive.
    I get what you're saying, but I feel like you don't "get it". Multiple jobs, yes, that's always an option. Moving to a different area? Without any income or money to actually make the move?

    Here's a scenario. Someone is Union or works somewhere that they make 70,000-80,000 a year. How many "low level" jobs would they need to work to make that much and sustain they current standards of living? $8/hr for 40 hours a week nets you $16,640 before anything is taken away. Can this person work enough jobs to make that much money? I KNOW people in this situation. Even working two jobs they're at risk of losing everything because they lived AT THEIR means. You could argue and say above because the house and vehicles were financed, but they weren't stressing to make the payments.

    It's different for everyone, of course, and circumstances will change things, but you definitely fell back to "just work harder" which I had already pointed out isn't always the answer.
    msndrstood likes this.
    10-12-2013 03:31 PM
  18. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Then we have Representatives saying things like THIS. Personally, a loan payment of any kind wouldn't help my financial situation once I went back to work. Again, not the case for everyone, and circumstances are different in different areas and for different people, but still.

    Isn't this almost like saying "go more in debt to keep paying off your debt"? Or am I misreading it?
    10-12-2013 03:38 PM
  19. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I get what you're saying, but I feel like you don't "get it". Multiple jobs, yes, that's always an option. Moving to a different area? Without any income or money to actually make the move?

    Here's a scenario. Someone is Union or works somewhere that they make 70,000-80,000 a year. How many "low level" jobs would they need to work to make that much and sustain they current standards of living? $8/hr for 40 hours a week nets you $16,640 before anything is taken away. Can this person work enough jobs to make that much money? I KNOW people in this situation. Even working two jobs they're at risk of losing everything because they lived AT THEIR means. You could argue and say above because the house and vehicles were financed, but they weren't stressing to make the payments.

    It's different for everyone, of course, and circumstances will change things, but you definitely fell back to "just work harder" which I had already pointed out isn't always the answer.
    You do whatever it takes. Sell stuff. Downsize. Eat nothing but rice and beans. Seek help from family and friends. Something can always be worked out.

    If you are using a large portion of your income to pay debt, you are already broke. You just don't know it yet.

    Going into debt to pay bills is the last of last resorts. If you cannot pay bills you have an income problem. Adding a debt payment on top is only going to kick the can into a hole.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-12-2013 04:21 PM
  20. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    You do whatever it takes. Sell stuff. Downsize. Eat nothing but rice and beans. Seek help from family and friends. Something can always be worked out.

    If you are using a large portion of your income to pay debt, you are already broke. You just don't know it yet.

    Going into debt to pay bills is the last of last resorts. If you cannot pay bills you have an income problem. Adding a debt payment on top is only going to kick the can into a hole.
    I don't know that many people that pay cash for their cars and homes.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    Fairclough and msndrstood like this.
    10-12-2013 04:22 PM
  21. llamabreath's Avatar
    I don't know that many people that pay cash for their cars and homes.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    I've been paying cash for my cars since my wife came into my life ten years ago. She hates owing anybody anything and we've been selling the cars we use to by other used cars.

    I haven't had a brand new car since 2002.

    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    10-12-2013 04:48 PM
  22. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I don't know that many people that pay cash for their cars and homes.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    I know lots of people that think that because they can afford the loan payment, they can afford the car.

    You can go get a 5 to 10k car that will last for years reliably. But instead people go buy a 30k car and then wonder why they go bankrupt when they hit a stroke of bad luck.

    House is an investment. Should not go down in value(I said should). That being said, what many think they can afford they really cannot.

    You get the theme here? Live and spend responsibly. If you have 2 sizeable car payments and a house payment, you should not be surprised when you go broke when times get rough.
    10-12-2013 05:02 PM
  23. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I know lots of people that think that because they can afford the loan payment, they can afford the car.

    You can go get a 5 to 10k car that will last for years reliably. But instead people go buy a 30k car and then wonder why they go bankrupt when they hit a stroke of bad luck.

    House is an investment. Should not go down in value(I said should). That being said, what many think they can afford they really cannot.

    You get the theme here? Live and spend responsibly. If you have 2 sizeable car payments and a house payment, you should not be surprised when you go broke when times get rough.
    Oh I get what you're saying, but you've yet to acknowledge that anything I've said is a reality for anybody.

    By that logic it would only be smart to plan to live off of minimum wage "just in case".

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    msndrstood likes this.
    10-12-2013 05:37 PM
  24. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Oh I get what you're saying, but you've yet to acknowledge that anything I've said is a reality for anybody.

    By that logic it would only be smart to plan to live off of minimum wage "just in case".

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    No you live within you means and save for rainy days. Life happens. Sometimes life happens a lot. But as long as you are continually increasing your skill set and prepare for bad times, you should be fine. And when your not fine, hopefully you have surrounded yourself with people that are willing to help.

    Basically be prepared enough to live for a couple of months on savings. That should be more than enough time to make arrangements to move or downsize or whatever lifestyle changes need to be made. The more extravagant your lifestyle is, the more you need to save. There is no reason to live on nothing when you don't have to, but at the same time there is no reason to live like you are rich and never save for bad times.
    10-12-2013 05:54 PM
  25. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    No you live within you means and save for rainy days. Life happens. Sometimes life happens a lot. But as long as you are continually increasing your skill set and prepare for bad times, you should be fine. And when your not fine, hopefully you have surrounded yourself with people that are willing to help.

    Basically be prepared enough to live for a couple of months on savings. That should be more than enough time to make arrangements to move or downsize or whatever lifestyle changes need to be made. The more extravagant your lifestyle is, the more you need to save. There is no reason to live on nothing when you don't have to, but at the same time there is no reason to live like you are rich and never save for bad times.
    So you're unwilling to accept that there are times where circumstances can make everything you said not possible? Or highly unlikely to happen?

    Some people can't get out of the hole no matter how many good decisions they make.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    10-12-2013 06:03 PM
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