11-14-2013 07:34 PM
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  1. Aquila's Avatar
    Yeah I live about 4 hours from anything that's ever happened. On the bright side, James Kirk going to be born about 90 miles away in 219.5 years.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    msndrstood likes this.
    10-13-2013 05:22 AM
  2. llamabreath's Avatar
    Yeah I live about 4 hours from anything that's ever happened. On the bright side, James Kirk going to be born about 90 miles away in 219.5 years.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    lol



    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    10-13-2013 05:33 AM
  3. Fairclough's Avatar
    As per your question, I don't know enough about Australian Society to answer, but to automatically assume something that "works" for their society would work for the US is arrogant and ignorant. If he is OK letting his government control his healthcare and trusting it with his protection then more power to him.

    Me personally, I would rather have responsibility for myself and all the risk that comes with that. If someone tries to mug me on the side of the road, I have the ability to protect myself and my family. If I don't don't like my healthcare coverage, I have the freedom of finding a new provider of similar price sense there is not a public system destroying the private. I know that I can go out and be successful without having to worry about the government telling me that I should be paying more so other able bodied people can get free stuff.

    But sadly all of this being threatened in America and one day soon it might all be a memory. We will become reliant on our government like the rest of the world and one freedom after another will be widdled away. By the time everyone wakes up, there will be no way to go back without massive bloodshed. The government will have all the power and control. It will only take one "Hitler" to abuse the systems meant to protect the citizens. Then it will be the equivalent of slavery. Except it will be the entire population.
    We can choose our treatment both in the public and private sector. I am on the private health care for the most part - there are somethings I go public for or use the government system, e.g. general doctors appointments - under both systems visiting a GP the government will take care of it for the fee given its under x amount (which most are). The public isn't destroying the private system, its making it competitive - people can use the government rebates at private practises. It just means the private system has to compete, we have plently of competitive health insurance agencies - I think some are even a low as $1-4 a week.

    As for gun control - thats your opinion, we are just happy to stay our issues prior to it has magically stopped. Also that our youth at 82x less likely to commit a murder. I view government relief as not helping leechers, but more of a preventive measure. It means when you are in need it helps you out and when someone is in need it helps them out. I have been on both sides of the hence, pre-2007 I was labelled as 'rich' post 2009 I was bottom middle class - stuff happens, like employment, legal fee's etc which can put you in an awkward spot. The nike shoe example, how NothingIsTrue said it could be a friend who purchased it. I was in the same boat 2009 - my mother wasn't in the best financial spot after a separation, the family house price loosing $300,000 the investment apartment i live in now dropped $100,000 (bought on equity) between its construction and post recession, My new shoes was a present from my sister - who lives out side of home.


    Getting a job while you're unemployed is very difficult. Getting a job without an address, a great resume, a positive attitude, a healthy and professional appearance, a callback number and e-mail address and/or a reliable way of getting to and from work on time is pretty much walking backwards up a mountain. There are 400 other people applying for the same job, most of which are currently employed, and thus automatically favored.
    +1 My brother was in the same boat as you. He was with 8,000 other engineers who got the sack, home mortgage to pay off and only 10 engineering jobs national wide available. Goodluck. Fortunately for him his partner was in the 1/6 group from his office who didn't lose their jobs. His payout covered the time till he found a new job (FiFo - however a french company offered him a similar job to his old one so he took that) but he tried applying to low level jobs - everyone rejected him saying he was over qualified to do a super market job etc.
    msndrstood likes this.
    10-13-2013 07:34 AM
  4. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Why should I donate? A guy was telling me, that his church raised money for a single mom and her kids by doing a carwash. When they met the mother and the children he was very angry. The shoes one of the kids were wearing were Nike that cost over $100. I would have been upset too.

    I'm in Canada working 7 nights a week, 13 hours a night. I have no college education and grew up poor. Anyone can be successful, but it won't happen by getting things given to them. It sure as hell isn't going to happen overnight. The safety net always turns into a hammock. With that said I work all over the US and Canada for months at a time. I have to sacrifice being away from home and my family to make an living. Why should I feel sorry for anyone that is too lazy to try or too good to work at a McDonalds? Am I greedy because I don't want to give a future democrat more of my money? The number one problem among the poor in the US is obesity. Poor in the US isn't measured by the same standard in other countries. It's measured by "I can't afford a new Iphone, but I have the 3GS and the phone bill/data with it. I can afford cable/satellite TV. I can afford internet. I can afford a car payment. I can afford tobacco. I can afford Marijuana. I can afford to get my nails done. But, I cant afford my own groceries or healthcare."

    We have a cultural problem that needs changed. We don't have a hunger problem. The only hunger problem we have in America, is the hunger to better yourself. It is looked down upon to be successful. People are jealous and expect to make what the owner of a company makes. I remember as a kid, my dad telling me "You see Mr. Johnson in that nice car of his, if you work hard, one day you have be the same." Nowdays "Look at Mr. Johnson in that car. He got his money from his parents and didn't earn it" or "He makes all the money illegally." When the person talking doesn't know Jack and is just jealous. We use to be a country of steely eyed missile men, who looked toward the horizon. It was the best person for the job. Now, everyone thinks socialism is great until they realize they have to give up something of theirs. It's always better for someone else to pay for something though, isn't it?
    What if it's a future Republican? Furthermore, why do these people you're describing automatically have to be Democrats? Are you saying that Republicans aren't or can't be on assistance of some kind, or that those that aren't on assistance are somehow better than those that are? I'm pretty sure that life/circumstances/situations don't discriminate based on Political party, and I would suggest you stop doing the same.

    Yes, poverty is not measured the same in the US as it would be in, say, China/India/Africa/anywhere else that isn't as generally prosperous as the US. Why is that a problem? That our "basic" standard of living is higher than in a lot of places. As a country we strive to have a higher standard of living. If you never change the baseline standard how can you honestly expect to improve as a whole. Remember the saying "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link"? That also applies to Society.

    The question, and it's been asked here with no real answer given, is how do we effectively change that baseline? How do you change a cultures way of thinking (keep in mind, of course, that EVERYONE would have to change their way of thinking, not just one side or the other)? Where's the balance?
    msndrstood likes this.
    10-13-2013 09:35 AM
  5. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    What if it's a future Republican? Furthermore, why do these people you're describing automatically have to be Democrats? Are you saying that Republicans aren't or can't be on assistance of some kind, or that those that aren't on assistance are somehow better than those that are? I'm pretty sure that life/circumstances/situations don't discriminate based on Political party, and I would suggest you stop doing the same.

    Yes, poverty is not measured the same in the US as it would be in, say, China/India/Africa/anywhere else that isn't as generally prosperous as the US. Why is that a problem? That our "basic" standard of living is higher than in a lot of places. As a country we strive to have a higher standard of living. If you never change the baseline standard how can you honestly expect to improve as a whole. Remember the saying "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link"? That also applies to Society.

    The question, and it's been asked here with no real answer given, is how do we effectively change that baseline? How do you change a cultures way of thinking (keep in mind, of course, that EVERYONE would have to change their way of thinking, not just one side or the other)? Where's the balance?
    We all know who drinks from the taxpayers tit and who claims credit for it. Throw the phony guilt trip on someone else.

    Why should I care if someone can't afford an iPhone? Work 2 jobs. I work more hours in 4 months than most work all year.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-13-2013 10:34 AM
  6. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    We all know who drinks from the taxpayers tit and who claims credit for it. Throw the phony guilt trip on someone else.

    Why should I care if someone can't afford an iPhone? Work 2 jobs. I work more hours in 4 months than most work all year.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I now know just how seriously to take your posts.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    10-13-2013 10:39 AM
  7. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    I now know just how seriously to take your posts.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    Please allow me to explain my background. Just about everyone in my family has died rather young. I fear I may also. When I do something I don't really want to, I feel it is minutes from my life I'll never get back. As I have said earlier, I work away from home to make a great living. Every minute I'm away, I think of being home and how I'm wasting minutes from my life I'll never get back. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my career. But it drives me sensless when someone doesn't want to work or sacrifice anything or a political party that claims to be for the little man that offers nothing but dependence.

    That is the measure of my conviction.


    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-13-2013 11:06 AM
  8. JW4VZW's Avatar
    What if it's a future Republican? Furthermore, why do these people you're describing automatically have to be Democrats? Are you saying that Republicans aren't or can't be on assistance of some kind, or that those that aren't on assistance are somehow better than those that are? I'm pretty sure that life/circumstances/situations don't discriminate based on Political party, and I would suggest you stop doing the same.
    Well said, Kevin.
    10-13-2013 02:07 PM
  9. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    What if it's a future Republican? Furthermore, why do these people you're describing automatically have to be Democrats? Are you saying that Republicans aren't or can't be on assistance of some kind, or that those that aren't on assistance are somehow better than those that are? I'm pretty sure that life/circumstances/situations don't discriminate based on Political party, and I would suggest you stop doing the same.

    Yes, poverty is not measured the same in the US as it would be in, say, China/India/Africa/anywhere else that isn't as generally prosperous as the US. Why is that a problem? That our "basic" standard of living is higher than in a lot of places. As a country we strive to have a higher standard of living. If you never change the baseline standard how can you honestly expect to improve as a whole. Remember the saying "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link"? That also applies to Society.

    The question, and it's been asked here with no real answer given, is how do we effectively change that baseline? How do you change a cultures way of thinking (keep in mind, of course, that EVERYONE would have to change their way of thinking, not just one side or the other)? Where's the balance?
    I know there are people that need help but many abuse the system. When people know they can get something for free, not working for it, why work for it. Entitlement breeds laziness/sorryness.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-13-2013 09:48 PM
  10. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Please allow me to explain my background. Just about everyone in my family has died rather young. I fear I may also. When I do something I don't really want to, I feel it is minutes from my life I'll never get back. As I have said earlier, I work away from home to make a great living. Every minute I'm away, I think of being home and how I'm wasting minutes from my life I'll never get back. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my career. But it drives me sensless when someone doesn't want to work or sacrifice anything or a political party that claims to be for the little man that offers nothing but dependence.

    That is the measure of my conviction.


    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I think of time the same way as you. Part of my point is that we need to figure out a way to get people to break away from there accepted way of thinking in order to come up with a solution to the problem that is acceptable to everyone. Sticking to the "status quo" way of thinking (this applies to everyone equally) is how we got into this mess, and is not the way to get out.

    I know there are people that need help but many abuse the system. When people know they can get something for free, not working for it, why work for it. Entitlement breeds laziness/sorryness.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    See my comment above. There will always be people that abuse the system, no matter what system it is we're talking about. Is that fact alone enough to not want the "system" at all? Is fixing it not a possible solution?
    10-13-2013 10:22 PM
  11. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Am I understanding this correctly? You have to watch it all the way through.

    10-13-2013 10:45 PM
  12. Aquila's Avatar
    Am I understanding this correctly? You have to watch it all the way through.

    Not sure how you're interpreting, but it was pretty straightforward to me.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    10-13-2013 11:17 PM
  13. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Not sure how you're interpreting, but it was pretty straightforward to me.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    Just wanted to make sure I'm not crazy.

    The Majority Leader happens to be the only member of the House of Representatives that can call a vote to end the shut down. Which is not how it used to be (or should be IMO).
    10-13-2013 11:30 PM
  14. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Just wanted to make sure I'm not crazy.

    The Majority Leader happens to be the only member of the House of Representatives that can call a vote to end the shut down. Which is not how it used to be (or should be IMO).
    Same way in the senate...both majority leaders hold that power

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    10-13-2013 11:32 PM
  15. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Also, full disclosure, I have no idea what the voting rules are in the Senate, or if they've recently been changed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Same way in the senate...both majority leaders hold that power

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Has it always been that way in the Senate, or was it recently changed (like within weeks)?
    10-13-2013 11:44 PM
  16. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Also, full disclosure, I have no idea what the voting rules are in the Senate, or if they've recently been changed.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Has it always been that way in the Senate, or was it recently changed (like within weeks)?
    I can't tell you when it was instituted. I know Reid has done it lately. Didnt like a proposed bill and wouldnt put it up for a vote. I only know its ridiculous that majority leaders have the right to block a vote, no matter which side of the debate you are on.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Kevin OQuinn likes this.
    10-13-2013 11:53 PM
  17. Scott7217's Avatar
    But it drives me sensless when someone doesn't want to work or sacrifice anything or a political party that claims to be for the little man that offers nothing but dependence.
    Honestly, some of the most hard-working people I've met weren't even born in the US. I'm talking about legal immigrants who follow the rules, save up every cent, and work 16-hour days. I almost feel that we should just deport the lazy people and let in the hard-working immigrants. They appreciate American freedoms more because they often came from a place were freedom never existed in the first place.
    10-14-2013 01:52 AM
  18. Fairclough's Avatar
    Here Youth - who are studying can receive welfare if they are from a lower economic background but we have conditions:
    - Studying Full time
    - Parents earn less than x amount
    - Net assets below x amount
    - not earning more than x amount
    There is incentives to work as you receive full payment until you earn $400 in fortnight or week, than above that you get a fraction of it etc. So it encourages students to work while studying.
    This encourages youth to both get their degree, work at the same time and allow them to actually buy books, pay admin fee's etc,

    Just food for thought.
    10-14-2013 02:25 AM
  19. JHBThree's Avatar
    I would like to understand your post. Are you saying that this extortion is the intent of our constitutional law?

    Posted via Android Central App
    It isn't extortion, it's adversarial government. It's the reason the house is as big as it is, and the senate is as small as it is.

    A basic reading of the constitution and the documents written alongside it's drafting shows how much they wanted the branches of government to be hostile towards each other. Government shutdowns are not a new thing, and neither is one branch of government doing all it can to stop the others from functioning properly.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
    10-14-2013 02:25 AM
  20. llamabreath's Avatar
    It isn't extortion, it's adversarial government. It's the reason the house is as big as it is, and the senate is as small as it is.

    A basic reading of the constitution and the documents written alongside it's drafting shows how much they wanted the branches of government to be hostile towards each other. Government shutdowns are not a new thing, and neither is one branch of government doing all it can to stop the others from functioning properly.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
    True, shutdowns are not new, but it is not what you call "adversarial government".

    It wasn't written like that to keep the three branches hostile towards one another. It is to keep them from having too much power.

    It's a FEATURE, not a bug.



    Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-14-2013 06:03 AM
  21. Aquila's Avatar
    True, shutdowns are not new, but it is not what you call "adversarial government".

    It wasn't written like that to keep the three branches hostile towards one another. It is to keep them from having too much power.

    It's a FEATURE, not a bug.



    •• Sent via a pay phone at the gas station.
    Maybe we're holding it wrong?
    10-14-2013 06:09 AM
  22. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Negotiating, deal making has been a part of the way this country has governed. This administration likes to throw terms around like extortion and domestic terrorists or racism when it suits them. Every congress and president has had to sit down and negotiate. Except this one, he is unwilling.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-14-2013 07:55 AM
  23. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Negotiating, deal making has been a part of the way this country has governed. This administration likes to throw terms around like extortion and domestic terrorists or racism when it suits them. Every congress and president has had to sit down and negotiate. Except this one, he is unwilling.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    THEY are unwilling, not just HE.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    10-14-2013 07:56 AM
  24. Aquila's Avatar
    Negotiating, deal making has been a part of the way this country has governed. This administration likes to throw terms around like extortion and domestic terrorists or racism when it suits them. Every congress and president has had to sit down and negotiate. Except this one, he is unwilling.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    Would it be weird if the Senate shut down the government under a demand that homeland security be defunded and/or the patriot act repealed? The same arguments about its constitutionality, strange adoption practice, excessive costs and public popularity could easily be alleged with possibly much more validity.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    10-14-2013 07:59 AM
  25. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    THEY are unwilling, not just HE.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    Have to disagree. There are no less than 8 bills sitting on Harry Reids desk with legitimate proposals. The president has said he want even consider a bill that contains the word obamacare. In his own words, I don't have to negotiate. The only president whose ever said that.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    10-14-2013 07:59 AM
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