10-30-2013 01:49 AM
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  1. msndrstood's Avatar
    Really. Only taxpayers and 'truly' disabled people should be able to vote?

    This is so ridiculous, I don't know where to start.

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    benhmadison likes this.
    10-22-2013 09:17 AM
  2. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Really. Only taxpayers and 'truly' disabled people should be able to vote?

    This is so ridiculous, I don't know where to start.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    Who said that?
    10-22-2013 09:22 AM
  3. msndrstood's Avatar
    Who said that?
    Sorry wrong thread, it was said on the U.S.Government thread.

    http://forums.androidcentral.com/sho....php?p=3155649

    I follow so many threads, and most are pages and pages long. I assumed it was in this thread. My apologies.

    But still...

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    palandri likes this.
    10-22-2013 09:26 AM
  4. palandri's Avatar
    Do you really want a flood of completely uneducated(politically) voters in the polls? It would become even more of a popularity contest than it is now. Campaigns would be won solely on flashy commercials and bashing of candidates. We are already alarmingly far down that path, lets not jump off the cliff at the end.

    Heck i would support a law that required you to pass a test of knowledge of the candidates and what their policies are before you can vote. That way only voters that understand the basic issues can have influence. I have no problem with people that have different opinions than myself voting. I have a huge problem with people that know nothing about the candidates or issues voting. It turns into a "well he has a nice smile" contest instead of an important decision about the direction the country will take for the next term.


    O and just to point out some Hypocrisy: 13$ to get an id to vote is unreasonable, but a 50$ fine for not voting at all is good idea...
    You brought up a couple of good points I'd like to expand on.

    Since my wife is European, I've seen a few things in European politics that I like.

    1. We really don't need a Congress and a Senate. One or the other would be fine. I don't care which. Just think of the tax dollars that would be saved and we still have the executive branch, congress and the supreme court.
    2. In Europe, you don't vote for a pretty face, you vote for a party platform.
    3. Equal proportion representation. Here's an over simplification of how it works. Party A gets 40% of the vote and 4 seats, Party B gets 30% of the vote and 3 seats. Party C gets 20% of the vote and 2 seats. Party D gets 10% of the vote and 1 seat. Party A and C form a coalition with 60% of the vote. Our winner takes all system really sucks because someone can win with less than a majority, rather a plurality, so we get a winner that the majority doesn't want. How much sense does that make?

    The $50 fine doesn't have to be a cash fine, have it as a $50 deduction on your income tax.
    NoYankees44 and msndrstood like this.
    10-22-2013 09:54 AM
  5. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Personally, I wouldn't want anyone to vote who didn't WANT to vote. If you don't care enough to want to, what does that say?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    10-22-2013 10:05 AM
  6. NoYankees44's Avatar
    You brought up a couple of good points I'd like to expand on.

    Since my wife is European, I've seen a few things in European politics that I like.

    1. We really don't need a Congress and a Senate. One or the other would be fine. I don't care which. Just think of the tax dollars that would be saved and we still have the executive branch, congress and the supreme court.
    2. In Europe, you don't vote for a pretty face, you vote for a party platform.
    3. Equal proportion representation. Here's an over simplification of how it works. Party A gets 40% of the vote and 4 seats, Party B gets 30% of the vote and 3 seats. Party C gets 20% of the vote and 2 seats. Party D gets 10% of the vote and 1 seat. Party A and C form a coalition with 60% of the vote. Our winner takes all system really sucks because someone can win with less than a majority, rather a plurality, so we get a winner that the majority doesn't want. How much sense does that make?

    The $50 fine doesn't have to be a cash fine, have it as a $50 deduction on your income tax.
    The percentages is a very interesting thought. The only problem i see nothing ever getting done because no one can agree(which is what our system was supposed to not have i believe *facepalm*).

    Ont the whole one house of congress: I am not sure how we would do that. The house of Rep would be the most logical choice to keep because it is more population based. I do not know enough about the responsibilities divide between the houses to comment on how things would change in that area. I guess the main question is do we need a house that represents state governments as well as a house that represents population? Obviously the founding fathers thought so. Give lower population states more say. Hmmm
    palandri likes this.
    10-22-2013 10:08 AM
  7. llamabreath's Avatar
    I like the idea of a $50 fine for not voting. It would encourage people to vote.

    It would be pretty impossible to pass a law/bill like that here in the states. The National Front (Tea Party) party would be screaming it's an infringement on freedom not to vote. At least that would be their logic.
    Deb, you thanked AND liked this post, but earlier in the thread you went on and on about how paying a few dollars to get I.D. is a hardship for people that want to vote but have no I.D.???

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    10-22-2013 10:20 AM
  8. msndrstood's Avatar
    Deb, you thanked AND liked this post, but earlier in the thread you went on and on about how paying a few dollars to get I.D. is a hardship for people that want to vote but have no I.D.???

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    Yes, I do like the idea of a fine if you don't vote. But voting should be easier than harder. I don't see any contradiction.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    10-22-2013 12:24 PM
  9. llamabreath's Avatar
    Yes, I do like the idea of a fine if you don't vote. But voting should be easier than harder. I don't see any contradiction.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    And what makes you think they won't cast haphazard, careless votes just to avoid a fine?

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    10-22-2013 12:54 PM
  10. msndrstood's Avatar
    Danny, I'm out at one of my happy places (Home Depot), so don't blow my buzz dude. Lol I'll answer later.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    10-22-2013 12:57 PM
  11. llamabreath's Avatar
    Danny, I'm out at one of my happy places (Home Depot), so don't blow my buzz dude. Lol I'll answer later.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    LOL LOL

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    msndrstood likes this.
    10-22-2013 02:36 PM
  12. msndrstood's Avatar
    Ok, I'm home now. I get easily distracted by all the pretty things at Home Depot.


    Ok, so again, my point was it should be made easier to vote not harder. When you register to vote in my area, you have to prove who you are and that you live in the district. When you go to vote, they look in the roll book to make sure you are registered, then you sign your name, it must match, and you are given a digital voter card for the electronic voter machine. You insert the card, make your choices, and click Vote, and you're done.

    If you need your ID to register to vote, and you have to sign to prove who you are, why would you need ID every single time you vote?

    In PA you can register to vote when you get/renew your drivers lIcense. You can also register by mail using your drivers license number OR your Social Security number. And that is free. You are issued a Voter ID Card and they will ask you for it the first time you vote. After that, your signature must match or you can't vote.

    As for the fine, I thought it was a good idea since it might get lazy people up off their *** and do their civic duty and participate in this thing called democracy. Don't want to vote? Fine, do 5 hours of community service in your community. Drive someone to church if that's your thing, whatever.

    You can argue all day long, in the end, if people don't vote, they get the government they deserve. Whether it's the one they want, that's a different story.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    10-22-2013 02:46 PM
  13. llamabreath's Avatar
    Ok, I'm home now. I get easily distracted by all the pretty things at Home Depot.


    Ok, so again, my point was it should be made easier to vote not harder. When you register to vote in my area, you have to prove who you are and that you live in the district. When you go to vote, they look in the roll book to make sure you are registered, then you sign your name, it must match, and you are given a digital voter card for the electronic voter machine. You insert the card, make your choices, and click Vote, and you're done.

    If you need your ID to register to vote, and you have to sign to prove who you are, why would you need ID every single time you vote?

    In PA you can register to vote when you get/renew your drivers lIcense. You can also register by mail using your drivers license number OR your Social Security number. And that is free. You are issued a Voter ID Card and they will ask you for it the first time you vote. After that, your signature must match or you can't vote.

    As for the fine, I thought it was a good idea since it might get lazy people up off their *** and do their civic duty and participate in this thing called democracy. Don't want to vote? Fine, do 5 hours of community service in your community. Drive someone to church if that's your thing, whatever.

    You can argue all day long, in the end, if people don't vote, they get the government they deserve. Whether it's the one they want, that's a different story.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    There's jail time for not paying taxes. Does that get them off their collective behinds to pay income tax?

    Oh, and this thing is not actually a democracy.

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    10-22-2013 02:58 PM
  14. msndrstood's Avatar
    There's jail time for not paying taxes. Does that get them off their collective behinds to pay income tax?

    Oh, and this thing is not actually a democracy.

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    Round and round we go...

    We should ask Tom how that works for them in AU.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    10-22-2013 03:04 PM
  15. Mooncatt's Avatar
    In PA you can register to vote when you get/renew your drivers lIcense. You can also register by mail using your drivers license number OR your Social Security number. And that is free. You are issued a Voter ID Card and they will ask you for it the first time you vote. After that, your signature must match or you can't vote.
    My signature rarely looks the same twice. So what would be your fix for people that don't match their own signature? Would it be to show I.D.?
    10-22-2013 03:21 PM
  16. msndrstood's Avatar
    You should make more of an effort to be consistent. How do you cash your pay checks at the bank?

    You can forge ID's too, btw.

    And how many people would actually forge ID's to elect democratic President? It would take a concerted, coordinated effort. Now you're in conspiracy territory.

    And of course, Republicans would never ever consider fraud to elect a Republican President. *cough Florida cough*

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    10-22-2013 03:29 PM
  17. llamabreath's Avatar
    You should make more of an effort to be consistent. How do you cash your pay checks at the bank?

    You can forge ID's too, btw.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    direct deposit

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    10-22-2013 03:35 PM
  18. msndrstood's Avatar
    Not everyone has DD. I added to my post, refresh, my friend.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    10-22-2013 03:36 PM
  19. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Do you really want a flood of completely uneducated(politically) voters in the polls? It would become even more of a popularity contest than it is now. Campaigns would be won solely on flashy commercials and bashing of candidates. We are already alarmingly far down that path, lets not jump off the cliff at the end.

    Heck i would support a law that required you to pass a test of knowledge of the candidates and what their policies are before you can vote. That way only voters that understand the basic issues can have influence. I have no problem with people that have different opinions than myself voting. I have a huge problem with people that know nothing about the candidates or issues voting. It turns into a "well he has a nice smile" contest instead of an important decision about the direction the country will take for the next term.


    O and just to point out some Hypocrisy: 13$ to get an id to vote is unreasonable, but a 50$ fine for not voting at all is good idea...
    That is a good point, the people should not be uneducated when they vote.
    10-22-2013 04:44 PM
  20. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Deb, you thanked AND liked this post, but earlier in the thread you went on and on about how paying a few dollars to get I.D. is a hardship for people that want to vote but have no I.D.???

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    It does seem hypocritical. Especially since the ID costs less than $50.
    10-22-2013 04:59 PM
  21. msndrstood's Avatar
    Have you ever been behind an old woman in the grocery line at the end of the month and she doesn't have enough money for a loaf of bread, a quart of milk, a can of tuna? I have many times.

    And I usually pay for their order too. I hope you never find yourself in that positon. Life happens.

    I think voting should be accessible to everyone, without having to pay for it. It's a poll tax unless the states provide it for free without any undue hardship required to obtain it. Such as having sites set up in local areas not just major metropolitan cities.

    12% of the population does not have photo ID. I'm sure they are not all American American and Democrat. Which is really what this is all about.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_per_head

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    10-22-2013 05:49 PM
  22. llamabreath's Avatar
    Have you ever been behind an old woman in the grocery line at the end of the month and she doesn't have enough money for a loaf of bread, a quart of milk, a can of tuna? I have many times.

    And I usually pay for their order too. I hope you never find yourself in that positon. Life happens.

    I think voting should be accessible to everyone, without having to pay for it. It's a poll tax unless the states provide it for free without any undue hardship required to obtain it. Such as having sites set up in local areas not just major metropolitan cities.

    12% of the population does not have photo ID. I'm sure they are not all American American and Democrat. Which is really what this is all about.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_per_head

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    Well I think voting should only be the privilege of those that are responsible and actually know what's going on around them, instead of getting news through some Morning-drive comedy show on the radio and lyrics in "songs".

    Not you, per se.



    Signatures, shmignatures...
    10-22-2013 07:10 PM
  23. Scott7217's Avatar
    That is a good point, the people should not be uneducated when they vote.
    How much education should each citizen get in order to vote?
    10-22-2013 08:19 PM
  24. llamabreath's Avatar
    How much education should each citizen get in order to vote?
    How about at LEAST a High School diploma? Is that really so much to ask?

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    10-22-2013 08:23 PM
  25. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I doubt this will change the opinion of anyone that thinks requiring an ID is the modern day equivalent of a poll tax, but something to read none the less. It points out several cases where voter ID laws were upheld when challenged as being poll taxes, right up to the supreme court.

    http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/25/...-and-voter-id/

    Probably the most notable part of the article is this bit from a federal district court in their ruling:

    ...imposition of tangential burdens is not a poll tax and no different than the cost of time and transportation to register and vote.
    Like it or not, the poll tax argument not only doesn't hold up in my opinion, but in the opinion of several courts as well.
    10-22-2013 08:26 PM
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