01-06-2014 12:49 AM
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  1. msndrstood's Avatar
    I was going to answer, but thought better of it. I'm in a no win situation in the Politics forums. :rolleyes:

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    palandri and rexxman like this.
    11-01-2013 05:24 PM
  2. palandri's Avatar
    Really? Every "party" has some individuals that are a bit more hard core. No denying that. But obama has a horrific list of associates.

    Doug Ross @ Journal: Roster of Hate: Guide to Barack Obama's Extremist Ties

    Sent from a device that supports the proposed 28th amendment
    I'll be on Doug Ross' list next!
    msndrstood likes this.
    11-01-2013 05:34 PM
  3. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    I'll be on Doug Ross' list next!
    Regardless of who you want to listen to, credit, or discredit its obvious to me and many others that this administration is doing things that most consider unconstitutional (anti-american/constitutional). I can see that for myself. It amazes me how so many people are snowed over in light of the direction this country has went almost 6 years into this presidency.

    Sent from a device that supports the proposed 28th amendment
    11-01-2013 05:54 PM
  4. palandri's Avatar
    .... It amazes me how so many people are snowed over in light of the direction this country has went almost 6 years into this presidency. ...
    We have cookies!
    11-02-2013 01:01 AM
  5. Aquila's Avatar
    I tend to disfavor incumbents, but not to the extent that I'll vote for someone I hate. At a Federal level, I generally don't care much what party someone is in, because it's just two different ways of telling the same lie. They all work for the exact same people and none of them work for us. At a State and Local level I'm much more involved. I personally don't care how someone personally feels about faith or lesbians or potheads or electric cars or any of that stuff, as long as they don't let their personal feelings influence their votes. I'm not electing their opinion, I'm electing their ability to represent mine and my neighbors with honor. To me that means if something is good for the community, even if the representative doesn't personally like it, they support it. And even if they're in love with a law that the coauthored, if it's going to be bad for the community, they vote it down. That's the expectation I think is fair, if slightly unrealistic.
    11-02-2013 03:28 AM
  6. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Just to play Devils advocate a bit, the opposite of that point is that if public opinion changes and the elected official changes to match the constituants, they can be seen as wishy washy and "going whichever way the wind (aka polls) blows." If I'm not mistaken, that was said about Bill Clinton a lot as a criticism (I was in Jr. High then, so the memory is a little fuzzy now). I say this because people want to vote for someone that they can know. They don't want to vote for someone that supports their own ideas, only to find out later that the person they elected is now going the opposite direction. I'm not talking about outright lieing and misleading, but the balance between wanting a leader and wanting a representative, as both would be good qualities to have in a government position. Is that ever something you consider in making your voting choices?
    11-02-2013 03:59 AM
  7. Aquila's Avatar
    Just to play Devils advocate a bit, the opposite of that point is that if public opinion changes and the elected official changes to match the constituants, they can be seen as wishy washy and "going whichever way the wind (aka polls) blows." If I'm not mistaken, that was said about Bill Clinton a lot as a criticism (I was in Jr. High then, so the memory is a little fuzzy now). I say this because people want to vote for someone that they can know. They don't want to vote for someone that supports their own ideas, only to find out later that the person they elected is now going the opposite direction. I'm not talking about outright lieing and misleading, but the balance between wanting a leader and wanting a representative, as both would be good qualities to have in a government position. Is that ever something you consider in making your voting choices?
    I definitely do not want someone who votes based on the polls. I want them to vote based on what they think is best, not popular. A Federal representative has at least four interests to represent, and the order they place those in is important. They have to do what they feel is best for the country, for the state that elected them as a state, for their constituents (in the case of the House, their district) and the fourth can be either their personal preferences/ideology or a compromise in some way that gets them something important for the other three in exchange.

    So I am saying a combination of leadership and representation, but not at the people's whim, on the people's behalf. Ideally the electorate would choose someone well qualified to think big picture and see the details and make wise decisions, however on a Federal scale especially, when the person with the most donations wins in Congress over 90% of the time, we're not seeing qualified wisdom, we're seeing puppets of of rich people who paid to put them in front of us, and then forced to choose between the less stinky pile of corruption. That's why I like local/state, because while money is obviously still a thing, so is integrity, reliability and common ground.

    Clarified or still sound weird?
    11-02-2013 04:06 AM
  8. llamabreath's Avatar
    Clarified or still sound weird?
    Signature?




    Signatures, shmignatures...
    11-02-2013 04:15 AM
  9. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I definitely do not want someone who votes based on the polls. I want them to vote based on what they think is best, not popular...

    So I am saying a combination of leadership and representation, but not at the people's whim, on the people's behalf.
    I can agree to that, but then who's to decide what's best for the people? Well then that would be what we as voters think is best and then we pick candidates that should follow those same idealogical lines, more or less. Would we not? That would mean in a way, you are in fact having to pick based on someone's idealogy and opinions first so that it agrees with yours. Then you would choose from those that you think could most effectively lead based on those ideals. Would that be a fair assesment? I hope so, because it's way late and I'm getting too out of it to continue for now.
    11-02-2013 04:44 AM
  10. Fairclough's Avatar
    Voting is futile.
    We don't pick the candidates, and the candidates that get shoved down our throats are all useless, and if not useless, harmful.

    I'm going to move to a deserted island as soon as i get a chance.
    Y'all can meet me there. Drinking in public will be allowed, maybe even required.

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    That could work - however, if you join at the local level you have a vote of who runs for your area. From memory in my country not many people actually try to get involved in the local level to get a seat.

    I definitely do not want someone who votes based on the polls. I want them to vote based on what they think is best, not popular. A Federal representative has at least four interests to represent, and the order they place those in is important. They have to do what they feel is best for the country, for the state that elected them as a state, for their constituents (in the case of the House, their district) and the fourth can be either their personal preferences/ideology or a compromise in some way that gets them something important for the other three in exchange.
    I believe our Politicians do this very well - at least the liberal party. Their meant to be the conservative party over here but they have had a few "captain" calls which almost lost them the next elections because it alienated their primary voters for some of their beliefs and conceived rights - in particular with the passing of legislation the year of 1996 which at the time controversial, but has not been debated to be one of the best legislations passed in our history. Right now I believe they are trying to work on paid time off for new parents up to 6 months matching their current wages to raise their new children on the condition they are willing to go back to work (we currently also have maternity leave.)

    I have met Politicians on both sides of the spectrum as I have been fortunate enough to go to the same school (was a very middle class school now shifting up as fees have almost gone 6 fold since my siblings were first enrolled) as their children, I can honesty say (met both state and federal levels) they are ridiculously down to people - a bit quirky at times as you expect the typical lawyer or economist to be (almost everyone politician has had this role in their previous career). On the top of my head i can only think 1 politician not from this background and is a self made billionaire.

    I find voting for the individual can cause trouble - just look up our gillard/rudd debacle.
    ---------------------------------

    If you havent caught on I vote liberal as they tend to stick their neck out on something they view is necessary over here.
    msndrstood and palandri like this.
    11-02-2013 05:35 AM
  11. JW4VZW's Avatar
    What can possibly be wrong with suicide counseling?

    And as far as the Marxist thing - If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....



    Signatures, shmignatures...
    Then the chances are that it is a duck.

    I vote for the party that closely resembles my interests. I do not vote for someone because of their race or their party.
    11-02-2013 12:49 PM
  12. JW4VZW's Avatar
    I want them to vote based on what they think is best, not popular.
    Too bad that doesn't happen.
    11-02-2013 12:52 PM
  13. JW4VZW's Avatar
    I disagree. Even Barry Goldwater warned the GOP about the religious right wing, which is what the Tea Party is:
    Barry Goldwater's War Against The Religious Right -

    Yesterday on CNN, they played a few Rafael Cruz videos (the father of Sen. Ted Cruz) speaking to the Tea Party. He called Obama an outright Marxist who, seeks to destroy all concept of God, and he urged the crowd to send Obama back to Kenya.. Then he goes on with other nonsense like mandated suicide counseling for the elderly...etc...
    WATCH: Ted Cruz's Dad Calls US a "Christian Nation," Says Obama Should Go "Back to Kenya" | Mother Jones

    Maybe you agree with Rafael Cruz. I certainly don't, and I would think that most conservatives don't. This is the baggage that comes with the Tea Party platform.
    I don't think Rafeal Cruz was wrong. After all, what is the First Amendment? Perhaps that it is because he speaks out against obama that upsets people.
    11-02-2013 12:56 PM
  14. llamabreath's Avatar
    Then the chances are that it is a duck.

    I vote for the party that closely resembles my interests. I do not vote for someone because of their race or their party.
    :thumbup: Same here.
    I vote (if and when I vote) for the person, not the propaganda, and if I don't like any of the choices, then I don't vote for any of them.

    What I REALLY want, is for someone who's soul doesn't belong to anybody, to run.



    Signatures, shmignatures...
    11-02-2013 01:38 PM
  15. JW4VZW's Avatar
    :thumbup: Same here.
    I vote (if and when I vote) for the person, not the propaganda, and if I don't like any of the choices, then I don't vote for any of them.

    What I REALLY want, is for someone who's soul doesn't belong to anybody, to run.



    •• Signatures, shmignatures...
    Good luck with that!
    11-02-2013 04:40 PM
  16. llamabreath's Avatar
    Good luck with that!
    Yeah, tell me about it, lol lol...

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    11-02-2013 04:45 PM
  17. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Yeah, tell me about it, lol lol...

    •• Signatures, shmignatures...
    We probably stand a better chance of winning the lottery than that happening.
    11-02-2013 05:06 PM
  18. llamabreath's Avatar
    We probably stand a better chance of winning the lottery than that happening.
    I think you can take the word "probably" out from that sentence.

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    11-02-2013 08:29 PM
  19. Johnly's Avatar
    Vote. ...but do not vote nexus or iPhone. And do not vote Republican or Democratic. ....they are like a word......don't mean crap.

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
    11-02-2013 08:45 PM
  20. nolittdroid's Avatar
    I'm well informed and consider myself a moderate. Neither party is worth being proud of.

    ✌SG3/iPad2
    Aquila likes this.
    11-02-2013 10:41 PM
  21. JW4VZW's Avatar
    I think you can take the word "probably" out from that sentence.

    •• Signatures, shmignatures...
    How about this sentence then: "We DO stand a better chance of winning the lottery than having a person run who's soul does not belong to anyone."
    11-03-2013 10:30 AM
  22. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Vote. ...but do not vote nexus or iPhone. And do not vote Republican or Democratic. ....they are like a word......don't mean crap.

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
    My district manager once told me "Red or blue, it doesn't matter. Green is all that matters. As long as they are making money, they will say anything."
    11-03-2013 10:35 AM
  23. Scott7217's Avatar
    I don't think Rafeal Cruz was wrong. After all, what is the First Amendment? Perhaps that it is because he speaks out against obama that upsets people.
    It's fine to speak out. The problem is when you upset people to a point where it starts a backlash. You may end up with people who decide to support the opposition out of spite. For example, some people may dislike Rafael Cruz's remarks so much that they end up donating money to Obama's campaign, even if they weren't planning to do that in the first place.
    11-04-2013 11:08 PM
  24. llamabreath's Avatar
    It's fine to speak out. The problem is when you upset people to a point where it starts a backlash.
    You've got to be joking!
    Upset people?

    What he did was utilize a built-in feature of our government and it's been done NUMEROUS times in our history, by BOTH parties, filibusters AND shutdowns.

    It's part of checks and balances!

    Wow.

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    11-05-2013 02:43 AM
  25. Scott7217's Avatar
    You've got to be joking!
    Upset people?

    What he did was utilize a built-in feature of our government and it's been done NUMEROUS times in our history, by BOTH parties, filibusters AND shutdowns.

    It's part of checks and balances!

    Wow.
    Again, I said it's fine to speak out. I'm sure the Democrats do the same thing. When the Democrats upset people, people donate to the Republicans. No surprise there.
    11-05-2013 03:33 AM
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