1. palandri's Avatar
    (CNN) -- Voters in 11 rural counties in northern Colorado will go to the polls Tuesday to decide whether they want to continue living in the 137-year-old state or break off and form their own......
    Colorado secession vote: Should we stay or should we go? - CNN.com

    Maybe it's a good idea. Maybe take it a step further and divide the U.S. into Red & Blue states. Think about it, the Red states could overturn the ACA, encourage gun sales by arming the public, have Mitt Romney run against Ted Cruz and Rand Paul, and no matter who wins, everyone in the Red states are happy.
    11-04-2013 03:07 PM
  2. Aquila's Avatar
    We want to allow Colorado to become owned by Mexican drug cartels? (Inevitable result of a state that close to the border losing the protection and friendship of the United States and her allies) How does that benefit the citizens there or us? I'd vote no... especially if I lived in New Mexico, where I'm between the new "country" and the old.
    11-05-2013 12:30 PM
  3. llamabreath's Avatar
    We want to allow Colorado to become owned by Mexican drug cartels? (Inevitable result of a state that close to the border losing the protection and friendship of the United States and her allies) How does that benefit the citizens there or us? I'd vote no... especially if I lived in New Mexico, where I'm between the new "country" and the old.
    But Corona wouldn't have to be imported anymore!

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    11-05-2013 06:05 PM
  4. Aquila's Avatar
    I like skiing in Colorado, And the tourist stuff, pikes peak, golden, even the mint. Watching it become a burnt down swampy shell filled with radioactive blood and nothing alive for hundreds of miles seems a tad wasteful.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    11-05-2013 06:21 PM
  5. llamabreath's Avatar
    I like skiing in Colorado, And the tourist stuff, pikes peak, golden, even the mint. Watching it become a burnt down swampy shell filled with radioactive blood and nothing alive for hundreds of miles seems a tad wasteful.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    Hmmm...

    Signatures, shmignatures...
    11-05-2013 06:23 PM
  6. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Inevitable result of a state that close to the border losing the protection and friendship of the United States and her allies
    Colorado is a good third of the way into the U.S.from Mexico. Would North Dakota be a safe distance for you? And the people wanting the vote are in the northern part of Colorado, about halfway between Mexico and Canada. To top it off, it would mean a new state is formed, and thus still part of the U.S. There would be no more concern of being overrun by drug cartels or lost alliances than there is now.

    I personally don't see this as much more than a publicity stunt trying to rattle some cages. Much like the Texas secessionists. Not to discount their frustrations, though. When you have large states with just a few major metropolitan areas that hold the overwhelming majority of people and vast rural areas that are sparsely populated, politics tend to get lopsided and the people in the rural areas feel left out, ignored, pushed around, etc.
    Aquila and rexxman like this.
    11-06-2013 03:12 AM
  7. Aquila's Avatar
    Good call I misunderstood that as wanting to secede from the us, not from Colorado to make a new state. Same answer, different reason with no cartels.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    11-06-2013 04:05 AM
  8. Aquila's Avatar
    One side point... Either 3/4 or 4/5 prior do live in cities and suburbs. 75% of the people live on 3% of the land. 1/6 of Americans live in cities of over 1 million citizens and 1/7 are in one of the largest cities in the world. (We have 9 of the top 50).

    From an electoral standpoint, I believe that your vote per elector is worth more than 18 times that of every new yorker. The problem is more rooted in not being able to choose who is on the ballot (1 in 250,000 make that call) and the simple fact that most votes in most states don't matter at all, at at least in presidential elections.

    From their concerns, it sounds like they lost some major recess and then won the campaign to recall those representatives. It's not difficult to become involved in government and to make your area heard. Using the system to change the system is much more effective and easier than trying strange and extreme tactics... at at least in the long run. This definitely works on getting some people on the news with little else to contribute to their community.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    11-06-2013 04:26 AM
  9. JW4VZW's Avatar
    We want to allow Colorado to become owned by Mexican drug cartels? (Inevitable result of a state that close to the border losing the protection and friendship of the United States and her allies) How does that benefit the citizens there or us? I'd vote no... especially if I lived in New Mexico, where I'm between the new "country" and the old.
    It is hard to believe that Colorado borders New Mexico.
    11-06-2013 08:16 PM
  10. Bratigan's Avatar
    I support the secession movement because the large urban population centers do not reflect the rural values of most people in those counties. New York is in the same boat as well as other states with large urban centers. They tend to dictate when they should consider trying to understand the differences and respecting those differences. Its the city mouse, country mouse scenario. Many of you will not understand the reference but you can go look it up.
    11-10-2013 07:39 AM
  11. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Would be nice if upstate NY could do this. Ridiculous.

    ✌SG3/iPad2
    11-11-2013 04:48 PM
  12. msndrstood's Avatar
    Well I'm in Pennsyltucky, if I had my way, I'd have the Wizard of Oz pick up my house and put it in MD.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    11-11-2013 04:55 PM
  13. JW4VZW's Avatar
    I support the secession movement because the large urban population centers do not reflect the rural values of most people in those counties. New York is in the same boat
    as well as other states with large urban centers. They tend to dictate when they should consider trying to understand the differences and respecting those differences. Its the
    city mouse, country mouse scenario. Many of you will not understand the reference but you can go look it up.
    You mentioned New York, I heard that Pennsylvania is the same way. With the exception of Northern Virginia and Richmond, Virginia is pretty conservative. If I am not mistaken, Virginia wanted to split off and become two states.
    11-11-2013 05:45 PM
  14. palandri's Avatar
    I saw another article on this today:

    ....In other states, voters who feel alienated have also recently looked to secede. Conservatives have been working to create the state of "Western Maryland," saying they're fed up with the Democratic majority in Annapolis. And Democrats in southern Arizona's Pima County, angry at Republicans' controversial immigration law two years ago, also talked of seceding and creating a "Baja Arizona" state.....
    New Colorado? Rural residents upset with urban neighbors say yes to secession idea | Star Tribune
    11-11-2013 05:45 PM
  15. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Would be nice if upstate NY could do this. Ridiculous.

    ✌SG3/iPad2
    Virgina as well!
    11-11-2013 05:49 PM
  16. Aquila's Avatar
    This seems like it could be a decent thing to do IF we did two things. Eliminated the Electoral College and replaced it with a system, such as tiered ballots, etc and rebalanced House representation so that the minimum allocations are not taken from the largest states as a penalty. Both the rebalancing and Electoral College create a massive imbalance in the relative power of a random citizen based on geography. For example, the average person in Montana or Alaska is around 18 times more powerful in both the Presidential elections and in how much representation they get in the House than an average citizen in New York.

    So one effect of this would be basically cementing the concept of gerrymandering in permanently. It sounds like commenters think it'd be most ideal to have each of the 50 states divide into 3 states each, a red, purple, and blue version... however that'd guarantee either centrist policy in effect where purples ruled the country, or guarantee a deadlock with exactly equal and unmoving positions mandated by law... neither sounds like it's what the secessionists actually want.

    How could this be done in a way that grants a local voice about how a community lives without upsetting the balance of actual citizen power more than it already is? Wouldn't just lessening the reach of the Federal government and running more things at a local level do the same thing without a need for anything drastic?
    11-11-2013 06:03 PM
  17. NoYankees44's Avatar
    This seems like it could be a decent thing to do IF we did two things. Eliminated the Electoral College and replaced it with a system, such as tiered ballots, etc and rebalanced House representation so that the minimum allocations are not taken from the largest states as a penalty. Both the rebalancing and Electoral College create a massive imbalance in the relative power of a random citizen based on geography. For example, the average person in Montana or Alaska is around 18 times more powerful in both the Presidential elections and in how much representation they get in the House than an average citizen in New York.

    So one effect of this would be basically cementing the concept of gerrymandering in permanently. It sounds like commenters think it'd be most ideal to have each of the 50 states divide into 3 states each, a red, purple, and blue version... however that'd guarantee either centrist policy in effect where purples ruled the country, or guarantee a deadlock with exactly equal and unmoving positions mandated by law... neither sounds like it's what the secessionists actually want.

    How could this be done in a way that grants a local voice about how a community lives without upsetting the balance of actual citizen power more than it already is? Wouldn't just lessening the reach of the Federal government and running more things at a local level do the same thing without a need for anything drastic?
    The electoral college and HoR were specifically designed to give lower population states more say. If it were not like this, places like New York would dictate the election for the entire country. This would be bad because the population dense areas could completely control the country despite having no knowledge or investment in the vast majority of the land.

    I am not saying the system is perfect. Far from it actually, but making everything 100% population based is not the answer.
    msndrstood likes this.
    11-12-2013 02:30 PM
  18. Aquila's Avatar
    The electoral college and HoR were specifically designed to give lower population states more say. If it were not like this, places like New York would dictate the election for the entire country. This would be bad because the population dense areas could completely control the country despite having no knowledge or investment in the vast majority of the land.

    I am not saying the system is perfect. Far from it actually, but making everything 100% population based is not the answer.
    Right, but it also somewhat works based on a similar balance struck at a state level. Splitting into geographic groups based on ideology creates the same problems as gerrymandering except it's worse because presumably the new states would want senators and representatives. Both would be relatively immune to upset and representative minimums would further dilute the representation of the donator states.

    XT1060. Through spacetime.
    11-12-2013 04:02 PM

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