01-31-2014 12:49 PM
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  1. Oofa's Avatar
    Of course the over emotional, slanted question is ridiculous. No...... it's not "ok" to kill cyclists. But......... 90% of the cyclists do not know or care about the traffic laws and are a hyped up mess on the streets. If you live in San Francisco and are trying to get home on a Friday evening when critical mass is happening, you might agree. All they care about is the same thing idiotic pedestrians that step out into traffic care about when crossing the street....."Hey, I have a right to do this!" It's crazy to even contemplate that they should be respected by automobile drivers. If you want higher chances of surviving an accident with an automobile, forget the laws and your rights to be on the street and remember that cars are bigger, heavier and will kill you if you are trying to compete with them in traffic. Until bicycles outnumber automobiles on the streets, it's not going to be a pretty picture for any bicyclist wanting to compete with cars.
    11-14-2013 12:09 AM
  2. Fairclough's Avatar
    You guys realise that cyclists drive as well right?

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    11-14-2013 04:33 AM
  3. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Here in little rock, we as taxpayers bought 3 bridges for cyclists to ride and over 20 miles of a track system by the river for runners and cyclists. Why they continue to choose the narrowest roads to keep riding on, I'll never know. It actually pisses me off pulling a trailer coming around a curve with trees and there is an ***** riding a bicycle down the narrowest road. Cyclists are plenty to blame too.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    11-14-2013 06:28 AM
  4. llamabreath's Avatar
    You guys realise that cyclists drive as well right?

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    They RIDE. Not drive. People ride bikes. I would think driving something requires an engine (although certain people in my family have figured out how to drive ME up a wall).
    11-14-2013 06:35 AM
  5. alexlam24's Avatar
    Hi there

    Sent from Samsung Z1 GPE on T-Mobile
    11-14-2013 06:49 AM
  6. alexlam24's Avatar
    They RIDE. Not drive. People ride bikes. I would think driving something requires an engine (although certain people in my family have figured out how to drive ME up a wall).
    I think he meant that they also own a car and a bike

    Sent from Samsung Z1 GPE on T-Mobile
    11-14-2013 06:50 AM
  7. Bratigan's Avatar
    It not right to kill cyclists. Glad we solved that one. It is also not right for cyclist to put themselves or others in danger.
    Cyclists should register their bikes and have background checks and pay an annual fee and pay insurance as well.

    Or we can just try to look out for one another. Hmmmm.... choices.
    Oofa likes this.
    11-14-2013 06:53 AM
  8. Fairclough's Avatar
    Bingo!

    As for 20 miles, in am average proper ride I would clock about 60. We have extensive tracks too but often it can be dangerous in groups, often in through the areas there are there is plenty of walks (extremely dangerous as peoples normal reaction is to step out when bikes over take), paths often have shattered glass across them. The list can go on. Its best for those commuting but for a fitness ride often the road is the safest way.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    11-14-2013 06:54 AM
  9. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Bingo!

    As for 20 miles, in am average proper ride I would clock about 60. We have extensive tracks too but often it can be dangerous in groups, often in through the areas there are there is plenty of walks (extremely dangerous as peoples normal reaction is to step out when bikes over take), paths often have shattered glass across them. The list can go on. Its best for those commuting but for a fitness ride often the road is the safest way.

    - Android Central App. Remember courage is contagious.
    You can't ride a 20 mile track that taxpayers bought just for you 3 times instead, you choose to ride the narrowest roads with blind curves then you want to blame other people when you get ran over. Why is it more dangerous to ride on a track for bicycles only and safer to ride on a highway? Its not.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    11-14-2013 07:51 AM
  10. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Part of me can't believe that this is even a topic. SMH. It's a loaded topic with no right answer, and a few people that are highly opinionated on either side that won't budge. If everybody would just follow all the rules things would be ok, right? And use something called common sense?
    11-14-2013 09:31 AM
  11. DINGSTER1's Avatar
    They RIDE. Not drive. People ride bikes. I would think driving something requires an engine (although certain people in my family have figured out how to drive ME up a wall).
    No we do BOTH is what he is saying. As for killing cyclists think about that the next time your kid or wife goes for a bike ride....you reap what you sow!


    Sent from my iPad
    11-14-2013 10:22 AM
  12. Timelessblur's Avatar
    You can't ride a 20 mile track that taxpayers bought just for you 3 times instead, you choose to ride the narrowest roads with blind curves then you want to blame other people when you get ran over. Why is it more dangerous to ride on a track for bicycles only and safer to ride on a highway? Its not.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    You clearly missed it and did not read the post you quoted. Those "bike paths" are generally 2 narrow for bikes, have people walking on them who do not pay any attention and one can not easily pass on a bike at any speed. They often times have steel polls in the middle of them make are hard to go around on a bike and sure as hell dangerous at speed. This is on top of the fact they are often not very smooth, have glass and other crap in them with no way to dodge them as it is not wide enough to go around.
    Cars if the driver is smart changes lanes ahead of time and does not even have to slow down.

    Sad part is laws on the books for when a car hits a cyclist are not being enforced or they get off way to easy. Hate to say it but something needs to be done and no getting off scott free.

    If you ride a bike on those path at speed (17 mph+) you will see does not work at all and even more so when you push the pass over to 20mph and then no go on a group which tend to ride 2 wide to control the yo yo effect and to shorten the length of a group. Means easier for the cars to pass as it shortens the pace line by over 50%

    - - - Updated - - -

    Part of me can't believe that this is even a topic. SMH. It's a loaded topic with no right answer, and a few people that are highly opinionated on either side that won't budge. If everybody would just follow all the rules things would be ok, right? And use something called common sense?
    You are asking for a lot right their. The fact that people in cars scream about it tells me that they lack any knowledge of the laws and common sense and decency.
    11-14-2013 12:16 PM
  13. Timelessblur's Avatar
    They RIDE. Not drive. People ride bikes. I would think driving something requires an engine (although certain people in my family have figured out how to drive ME up a wall).
    I think you missed it.
    Most cyclist also drive cars as well. AKA Almost all cyclists are also drivers.
    11-14-2013 12:18 PM
  14. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    You are asking for a lot right their. The fact that people in cars scream about it tells me that they lack any knowledge of the laws and common sense and decency.
    To be fair, I've had cyclists yell at me for following the rules when I've had the right of way and they just wanted to go first. Specifically, it was a stop sign. I was stopped and getting ready to proceed through and they barely slowed down when they got to the intersection. I had to slam on my brakes, and got the finger from them for it.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    11-14-2013 12:23 PM
  15. CR6's Avatar
    WTH?

    tap'n
    11-14-2013 12:35 PM
  16. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    You clearly missed it and did not read the post you quoted. Those "bike paths" are generally 2 narrow for bikes, have people walking on them who do not pay any attention and one can not easily pass on a bike at any speed. They often times have steel polls in the middle of them make are hard to go around on a bike and sure as hell dangerous at speed. This is on top of the fact they are often not very smooth, have glass and other crap in them with no way to dodge them as it is not wide enough to go around.
    Cars if the driver is smart changes lanes ahead of time and does not even have to slow down.

    Sad part is laws on the books for when a car hits a cyclist are not being enforced or they get off way to easy. Hate to say it but something needs to be done and no getting off scott free.

    If you ride a bike on those path at speed (17 mph+) you will see does not work at all and even more so when you push the pass over to 20mph and then no go on a group which tend to ride 2 wide to control the yo yo effect and to shorten the length of a group. Means easier for the cars to pass as it shortens the pace line by over 50%

    - - - Updated - - -



    You are asking for a lot right their. The fact that people in cars scream about it tells me that they lack any knowledge of the laws and common sense and decency.
    Clearly you've never seen the paths here for cyclists to ride. You've also never seen the narrow rural highways they ride on out here either. The speed limit on highways here is 55.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    11-14-2013 12:57 PM
  17. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Perhaps you should be pushing for better bike paths then, instead of getting mad at motorists. Just no more taking from the highway trust fund and fuel taxes to fund those non-road projects.
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    11-14-2013 01:03 PM
  18. Timelessblur's Avatar
    Clearly you've never seen the paths here for cyclists to ride. You've also never seen the narrow rural highways they ride on out here either. The speed limit on highways here is 55.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    List of question.
    1. Are the path at least 8ft wide?
    2. Are they clear of garage gravel ect?
    3. Are they smooth?
    4. Can they safely handle cyclist going 20-25mph in a group with out issue for miles?

    If the answer is no to any of those question then no they are not good bike paths for riding.
    The thing is what makes a route good for cars generally makes them good for bikes as well.
    If you come up on a cyclist around a "blind" corner and are surpised then your error is you should of paid attention and saw the guy before he went around the corner. It tells me you are not paying attention so did not make note of anything but want is in front of your hood.
    The response narrow roads is OMG your trip got 30 sec longer, POOR BABY do you want some wine with that cheese.
    Thing is you just are not paying attention. Learn to do that.
    You do not seem to have an issue with tractors and other slow moving vehicles that use that road. Bikes are nothing more than slow moving vehicles. Learn to pay attention.
    11-14-2013 02:02 PM
  19. Mooncatt's Avatar
    List of question.
    1. Are the path at least 8ft wide?
    2. Are they clear of garage gravel ect?
    3. Are they smooth?
    4. Can they safely handle cyclist going 20-25mph in a group with out issue for miles?
    You also need to consider the intended purpose of the path itself. But everyone is out to commute from one place to another rapidly on a bike, or at a higher level like has been talked about here. Many paths are probably meant for the casual rider that isn't running full speed, nor affected by debris.

    And those big metal poles as mentioned in an earlier post are just as much for the path users safety as anything. They are there to prevent motorized vehicles from entering the path. If they were spaced further apart, it would defeat the purpose of them.
    11-14-2013 02:25 PM
  20. CR6's Avatar
    There is no winning with this topic regardless of which stance you take.
    Having lived in S.Florida most of my life, where biking is prevalent all year round, many of your concerns simply aren't realistic. There is no room to build 8ft wide bike lanes. The bike lanes they DO have are plenty wide enough, yet when you see a pack of riders they NEVER adhere to the designated lanes built specifically for them. They feel then need to ride 5-6 people wide taking up half of the car lane in the process, instead of in a single file or line of 2 wide.
    As for the "being late 30 seconds" comment....That's also not accurate. I've been held up on A1A (the single lane road that is next to the ocean that runs almost the whole length of the state) for well over 30 minutes on numerous occasions, because traffic was so backed up due to cars attempting to drive around the cyclists, as they were able.
    While I agree that their needs to be more understanding and leeway on both sides, I can tell you from my own personal experience, that more often than not it was the cyclists that were in the wrong and thought they owned the road. And yeah, there are drivers out there that are rude and in the wrong all the time.

    As for myself, I always used the sidewalk whenever I could, simply for safety reasons. I was hit crossing at an intersection once because the driver failed to yield before turning right on red. He knocked me off my bike and completely totaled it. He leaned his head out the window and yelled, "are you alright"? As soon as I said "yeah I think so", he drove off. So I've been been on both sides and can see the concerns of each.
    Both drivers and bikers need to do a better job imo.

    tap'n
    11-14-2013 02:32 PM
  21. Timelessblur's Avatar
    There is no winning with this topic regardless of which stance you take.
    Having lived in S.Florida most of my life, where biking is prevalent all year round, many of your concerns simply aren't realistic. There is no room to build 8ft wide bike lanes. The bike lanes they DO have are plenty wide enough, yet when you see a pack of riders they NEVER adhere to the designated lanes built specifically for them. They feel then need to ride 5-6 people wide taking up half of the car lane in the process, instead of in a single file or line of 2 wide.
    As for the "being late 30 seconds" comment....That's also not accurate. I've been held up on A1A (the single lane road that is next to the ocean that runs almost the whole length of the state) for well over 30 minutes on numerous occasions, because traffic was so backed up due to cars attempting to drive around the cyclists, as they were able.
    While I agree that their needs to be more understanding and leeway on both sides, I can tell you from my own personal experience, that more often than not it was the cyclists that were in the wrong and thought they owned the road. And yeah, there are drivers out there that are rude and in the wrong all the time.

    As for myself, I always used the sidewalk whenever I could, simply for safety reasons. I was hit crossing at an intersection once because the driver failed to yield before turning right on red. He knocked me off my bike and completely totaled it. He leaned his head out the window and yelled, "are you alright"? As soon as I said "yeah I think so", he drove off. So I've been been on both sides and can see the concerns of each.
    Both drivers and bikers need to do a better job imo.

    tap'n
    Bike lanes are at most 3ft wide. Not wide enough for a group ride and on top of they they are the trash bin of hte road. This means they are loaded with garabag and makes them unsafe to ride in.

    As for the road lane, if it is less than 12 ft wide then the cyclist has full legal right to the entire lane. Also a car can not safely pass a bike inside the same lane if it is less than 12ft wide. As minimum safe passing distance is 3ft. Riding dead center of the lane will force motorist to give up trying to pass in the lane and do the lane change they need to do any how to safely pass.
    Now as for the 2 wide part tell you the truth that is safer for the cyclist and better for motorist as it shrinks the distance from the font of the group to back by over 50%. As long as they are in a single lane they are really making your job easier. Now if they spread into 2 lanes that is another story.

    I would be fine with bike lanes if they were not the garage bin of the road making them well unsafe to ride on. Really would help if they were the high point of the road so everything drained the other way.
    11-14-2013 03:18 PM
  22. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    List of question.
    1. Are the path at least 8ft wide?
    2. Are they clear of garage gravel ect?
    3. Are they smooth?
    4. Can they safely handle cyclist going 20-25mph in a group with out issue for miles?

    If the answer is no to any of those question then no they are not good bike paths for riding.
    The thing is what makes a route good for cars generally makes them good for bikes as well.
    If you come up on a cyclist around a "blind" corner and are surpised then your error is you should of paid attention and saw the guy before he went around the corner. It tells me you are not paying attention so did not make note of anything but want is in front of your hood.
    The response narrow roads is OMG your trip got 30 sec longer, POOR BABY do you want some wine with that cheese.
    Thing is you just are not paying attention. Learn to do that.
    You do not seem to have an issue with tractors and other slow moving vehicles that use that road. Bikes are nothing more than slow moving vehicles. Learn to pay attention.
    I'm not sure you understand what a blind corner/curve really is. It means that no matter how hard you look you CAN'T see around it.

    Bike lanes are at most 3ft wide. Not wide enough for a group ride and on top of they they are the trash bin of hte road. This means they are loaded with garabag and makes them unsafe to ride in.

    As for the road lane, if it is less than 12 ft wide then the cyclist has full legal right to the entire lane. Also a car can not safely pass a bike inside the same lane if it is less than 12ft wide. As minimum safe passing distance is 3ft. Riding dead center of the lane will force motorist to give up trying to pass in the lane and do the lane change they need to do any how to safely pass.
    Now as for the 2 wide part tell you the truth that is safer for the cyclist and better for motorist as it shrinks the distance from the font of the group to back by over 50%. As long as they are in a single lane they are really making your job easier. Now if they spread into 2 lanes that is another story.

    I would be fine with bike lanes if they were not the garage bin of the road making them well unsafe to ride on. Really would help if they were the high point of the road so everything drained the other way.
    You are being unreasonable and are unwilling to compromise on anything. Hence the problem. There will never be a middle ground since you don't want to give on anything, and just want everything to be advantageous for the cyclists. The post you quoted was very well thought out and brought up some great things on both sides, and you chose to ignore that. Instead you focus on the negative things that were said about cyclists, while ignoring the fact that sometimes they are totally to blame for the problems on the road.
    CR6 and NoYankees44 like this.
    11-14-2013 03:46 PM
  23. CR6's Avatar
    ^^ this^^

    tap'n
    11-14-2013 04:08 PM
  24. Timelessblur's Avatar
    I'm not sure you understand what a blind corner/curve really is. It means that no matter how hard you look you CAN'T see around it.
    I know what a blind corner is. You can not see around it but the point is you should of seen the cyclist go around said corner before you got there. AKA made a note that their is something on the other side.

    You are being unreasonable and are unwilling to compromise on anything. Hence the problem. There will never be a middle ground since you don't want to give on anything, and just want everything to be advantageous for the cyclists. The post you quoted was very well thought out and brought up some great things on both sides, and you chose to ignore that. Instead you focus on the negative things that were said about cyclists, while ignoring the fact that sometimes they are totally to blame for the problems on the road.

    Ok I point out the flaws in the argument on 2 wide issue and taking up the entire lane.
    To safely pass by 3ft inside the same lane it is impossible to do when the lane is less than 12 ft wide. Hence the reason cyclist are told the ride dead center. If forces that option even off of the table in the common 8-10ft wide as 5 ft. Basically forces the issue. You do not want to hit someone and the cyclist does not want to be it. So remove the option of in lane passing off the table. AKA MASSIVE SAFETY ISSUE. I will never give on a safety issue. Asking me to give on a safety issue shows ignorance on your part and the motorist part as you can not safely pass in lane if the lane is less than 12ft wide.
    I also showed riding 2 wide is better for all parties involved as it reduces the amount of room by over 50%. So tell me where am I wrong and what am I not giving on.

    Bike lane, if they are not garbage puddle filled that is fine as again it is a safety issue. They need to be the high side of the road not the low side.
    11-14-2013 04:13 PM
  25. CR6's Avatar
    I don't know where you live, the bike lanes I've seen and ridden on are not puddle filled garbage. As a matter of fact, they are MUCH nicer than the roadways they are built next to because you dont have heavy commercial vehicles driving on them all day long, and there isn't oil all over them for the exact same reason. If the bike lanes you ride on are this way, perhaps you should address your city council about the matter, and see what they'll do about it. (I can almost guarantee it won't be much because they simply don't have the funds available) As for your 8 to 12 ft wide bike lanes, that's simply not realistic, nor is it feasible on a monetary level. Again, cities do not have the funds OR the space to build such wide bike lanes.
    11-14-2013 04:47 PM
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