12-09-2013 07:20 PM
71 123
tools
  1. Timelessblur's Avatar
    Actually you presented no evedience to dispute my source. You just stated it was a conservative leaning site(like that means something?).
    t...
    Well that does mean something. It means that the data from the site should be question for spin. It means they are going to screw with the data to get exactly what they want and results should be question.

    I agree the IRS needs some rules on how to inspect the 501c4 abuse and yes it is abuse. I fully support groups with names like Tea Party in them to be question for potential political campaign. No way around the fact that they are clearly for one side. Just like I would support one that appears to be on the side liberal groups. 501c4 are massively abused. Concervative groups will out number liberal groups. They generally have more money and have people who cheat the system.

    Lets faces it 501c4 are massively abused and due to this abuse I could see 501c4 going away which is sad as they were a good thing until political groups got their hands on them.
    Also this mess put the IRS to handle the abuse. I would say if the group runs adds or does anything the general lay person would find that is clearly in the hands of politics say nope no more tax exempt for you. Hell no more secret money needs to be done. They abuse them.
    12-04-2013 12:00 PM
  2. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Well that does mean something. It means that the data from the site should be question for spin. It means they are going to screw with the data to get exactly what they want and results should be question.

    I agree the IRS needs some rules on how to inspect the 501c4 abuse and yes it is abuse. I fully support groups with names like Tea Party in them to be question for potential political campaign. No way around the fact that they are clearly for one side. Just like I would support one that appears to be on the side liberal groups. 501c4 are massively abused.

    Lets faces it 501c4 are massively abused and due to this abuse I could see 501c4 going away which is sad as they were a good thing until political groups got their hands on them.
    Also this mess put the IRS to handle the abuse. I would say if the group runs adds or does anything the general lay person would find that is clearly in the hands of politics say nope no more tax exempt for you. Hell no more secret money needs to be done. They abuse them.
    And the political sites you and others have posted trying to disprove it that are liberal should also be thrown out with that logic.

    And you didn't dispute the information I posted that proved that there was an issue with profiling conservative groups from the audits done on the irs...
    12-04-2013 12:04 PM
  3. Aquila's Avatar
    Well, there are two sets of numbers in just this thread (which is a problem, we're not using the same data). The chart (and article) you're referencing has 111 total records, while the chart (and article) the other member is referencing has 298 total records, 202 of which are not labeled in any way. This latter chart is also misleading because it implies that the 202 records are NOT conservative, while J. Russell George stated that they did not report on the political make-up of those 202 groups because they only looked at the names of the organizations, and those names were generic as to not clearly determine a particular point of view.

    The % approved is difficult to statistically compare when one of the sample sizes is 7 (compared to the other group being nearly 15 times that count), especially since the % approved doesn't discount applications that were withdrawn. That pair of numbers might mean nothing at all, and it might be evidence of bias. Without context, that's impossible to determine. For example, nothing indicates what order these applications were received in, how they were prioritized, etc. There is also very little information available about how the completeness of applications compared, what information was absent and/or questioned, etc.

    All we have is two non-congruent charts with very little real information between them and a lot of possible conclusions to be jumped to, but no evidence to substantiate such a jump in any case. If this is an important issue, a lot more research is needed, because even with a few minutes with Google, finding the real numbers behind this is not happening. (Only real numbers (officially released) available are below) What is clear is that many people thought it would be a simple and easy process to receive tax exempt status, (and it is not) and that the IRS needs a lot more in the way of safeguards to ensure that the application of their rules regarding such applications are handled evenly and within the spirit/letter of the laws governing their conduct.

    What's sad is that both of these articles came out after official information came out from the treasury department, so in both camps it falls from "conjecture" or "supposition" into the "misinformation" category. Given that the Treasury admitted that their process is incorrect and did supply the following numbers (pretty much the only real data in their report):

    296 applications were reviewed, 108 had been approved, 28 were withdrawn by the applicant and 0 had been denied, obviously leaving 160 still open. Clearly the 296 is far more than the 111 cases cited in the one article and close to the 298 in the other, hover that still leaves 2/3 of the groups unidentified. The makeup of that unidentified population could be literally anything. It could be 100% conservative, 100% liberal or anything in between. In the end the exact makeup doesn't matter much, because we all know it was mismanaged and the expectation is that they correct the issues to prevent occurrence.
    12-04-2013 12:16 PM
  4. Aquila's Avatar
    It means that the data from the site should be question for spin. It means they are going to screw with the data to get exactly what they want and results should be question.
    Yes, that's what media entertainment sites do. They spread propaganda, not news.

    And the political sites you and others have posted trying to disprove it that are liberal should also be thrown out with that logic.
    Yes, that's what media entertainment sites do. They spread propaganda, not news.

    This article: Proof the IRS Didn't Target Just Conservatives - Garance Franke-Ruta - The Atlantic was misleading in it's title and conclusions.

    The subtitle: "Almost one third of the tax-exemption applications selected for additional scrutiny by the IRS were from groups that were not conservative."

    Is directly contradicted by the information below the chart at the top, which states: "The Treasury Report on tax exempt groups showed that only a third of targeted groups were Tea Party class groups, but no explanation was given for the identity of the majority marked "other". (TIGTA)

    Those numbers don't add up.

    This article: IRS scoreboard: 100 percent of “targeted” liberal groups were approved, conservatives languished « The Greenroom is misleading in it's title and conclusions. Given that we don't know the makeup of over 2/3 of the data, making any claims about 100% of anything, etc, is absurd.

    Both "sides" spin and both sides should have automatic fact checks by readers. Accepting either "side" blindly is just silly.

    12-04-2013 12:25 PM
  5. Rule9's Avatar

    Yes, that's what media entertainment sites do. They spread propaganda, not news.
    And apparently tech media sites are now a place for click bait no-names to grind their own agendas now too. Lots of PC people blowing XBox One commercials WAY out of proportion with sexism allegations.

    Guess just covering the tech wasn't good enough?
    12-04-2013 09:54 PM
  6. Aquila's Avatar
    And apparently tech media sites are now a place for click bait no-names to grind their own agendas now too. Lots of PC people blowing XBox One commercials WAY out of proportion with sexism allegations.

    Guess just covering the tech wasn't good enough?
    I'm not up to speed on the current issue(?) but I do know that I've stopped reading quite a few sites over the last couple of years because of what I perceive as a lack of objectivity and/or content worth the time to report. I do agree many blogs are too quick to reword and repost "news" items from other sites with very little value add or verification on their own part, solely to not be "scooped" or be the one site missing the sensational story. Honestly, sometimes being the site/source ignoring something unworthy of you is a good thing.
    12-04-2013 10:02 PM
  7. SteveISU's Avatar
    There are maybe 2 objective news outlets left in our society. Everyone else has an agenda, ABC, CBS, NBC's was to get our current president elected, they made that clear as day.
    12-05-2013 09:07 AM
  8. JW4VZW's Avatar
    My opinion on Fake news would stay the same.
    That is so lopsided and unbalance that it is a joke.
    MSNBC I consider a bad news station and they support it. If it is political generally toss MSNBC out as not valid. Fake news is so bad that it never considered a valid news source.
    There is no getting around the fake that Fox news is the worse news stations. Has the most errors per 1000 stories by a very healthy margin (NBC is 2nd worse but close to the norm.) That fox news watchers are time after time the least informed and most incorrect about anything.

    Oh and saying they precent both sides equally that is a joke. They precent one side. They are crap. This just show how much they focused on a single issue WAY WAY out of line with the 2nd worse. Noticed if you add up the times they do not cover 8 hours. Fake news left 8 mins TOTAL for non ACA. 8 minutes. Saying it is American most watch news station speaks volumes. Volumes that most people are *****. It is the worse news station. There is a reason it is called Fake news and not considered a valid source on anything.
    And CNN is different how? Oh right, it supports your views so you will not bash them.
    12-05-2013 12:21 PM
  9. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Benghazi, Fast and Furious, IRS, Obamacare........Beginning to look like Fox is the only one to get it right.
    But those are not important to the democrats.

    Posted on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on America's largest 4G LTE Network. Please excuise any errors.
    12-05-2013 12:24 PM
  10. JW4VZW's Avatar
    They are not journalists and have not been for quite a long time. They are news entertainment shows that can be compared with Rush Limbaugh, the Daily Show, etc. This has been proven many times, including Fox News going to bat with a defense that said they were under no obligation to refrain from knowingly lying while reporting. This was partly because FCC policies are not techincally laws, but an agreement for use of standard media (spectrum, dedicated lanes, broadcast rights, etc) and partly because of the distinction between "the press" and "the media". Their job is NOT to report the news, inform the public nor to ensure transparency in public affairs. That's the press... and it doesn't really exist anymore.

    The Media:
    The media's job is to sell, on behalf of their owners (corporations that are interlinked with the vast majority of all transactions that their reporting on) a product, in the form of views/readers/viewers/etc, TO their own business partners and chained subsidiaries (advertisers). There are 6 media companies that control 90% of the media content consumed and they happen to be chained to 4 banks that carry over 90% of transactions between their own interests, the 10 consumer product companies that sell literally everything. 20 "companies" have at a recent count (2010) 190 of the 290 boardroom seats in common. When you add in the defense industry (Carlyle, Boeing, Halliburton, Lockheed-Martin, etc) that 65% raises to 85%. That's just the boards. The top shareholders make this one giant supercorp trading amongst it's various channels across names in a giant game of 3 (trillion) card Monte by less than 430 individuals.

    The ads are not the product, nor are the shows. You are the product, or more importantly your value as an incremental lift in consumer count which is traded as a commodity.
    I guess what I posted on facebook a few years ago is correct then. "The press and media care about nothing but the money."

    Posted on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on America's largest 4G LTE Network. Please excuise any errors.
    12-05-2013 12:27 PM
  11. JW4VZW's Avatar
    (Just like the thirty-something quotes of Obama saying we can keep our health plans.)

    Herein lies the ol' Taken Out of Context Crutch -
    http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/05/ygygunyz.jpg





    (⊙_⊙) I think people that take the time out of their day (or night) to think of some clever, memorable or just plain dumb signature probably have way too much time on their collective hands and they should get back to work and earn their paycheck, instead of just expecting their paycheck. People like this make me sick to my stomach.
    Don't even get me started on that. The health insurance for my wife and I is going up by over $200 come January 1st, and so are the deductibles. This seriously has me considering going back into the military as an officer now that I have my degree. Like I have said before, it is unfair to punish me by raising my health insurance cost because I voted against it. Hopefully those hurt the worse voted for it. It seems to be fair after all.

    Posted on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on America's largest 4G LTE Network. Please excuise any errors.
    12-05-2013 12:36 PM
  12. JW4VZW's Avatar
    There are maybe 2 objective news outlets left in our society. Everyone else has an agenda, ABC, CBS, NBC's was to get our current president elected, they made that clear as day.
    Who are the two that are left?

    Posted on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on America's largest 4G LTE Network. Please excuise any errors.
    12-05-2013 12:43 PM
  13. Timelessblur's Avatar
    And CNN is different how? Oh right, it supports your views so you will not bash them.
    Cnn is the tmz of the news stations. But in terms of news they are more accurate that Fox.

    You can not get around the fact Fox is the worse by a very healthy margin.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    12-05-2013 12:47 PM
  14. SteveISU's Avatar
    Who are the two that are left?

    Posted on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on America's largest 4G LTE Network. Please excuise any errors.
    I would say AP and Reuters.
    12-05-2013 12:54 PM
  15. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Cnn is the tmz of the news stations. But in terms of news they are more accurate that Fox.

    You can not get around the fact Fox is the worse by a very healthy margin.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    They are "more accurate" because they support your views. I find nothing that CNN says to be accurate as all they do is talk about how great obamacare is, and are nothing short of being a democrat party news agency.
    Posted on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on America's largest 4G LTE Network. Please excuise any errors.
    12-05-2013 01:01 PM
  16. JW4VZW's Avatar
    I would say AP and Reuters.
    I will give them a look, thanks SteveISU.
    Posted on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on America's largest 4G LTE Network. Please excuise any errors.
    12-05-2013 01:03 PM
  17. Timelessblur's Avatar
    They are "more accurate" because they support your views. I find nothing that CNN says to be accurate as all they do is talk about how great obamacare is, and are nothing short of being a democrat party news agency.
    Posted on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on America's largest 4G LTE Network. Please excuise any errors.
    Yeah the fact that you call them the democrats news agency pretty much speaks volumes.
    You have not address the issue that time and time again Fox news viewers are the least informed amd wrong on the issues. This along with the issue that Fox news has the most errors pure 1000 stories by healthy margin.
    msndrstood likes this.
    12-05-2013 01:08 PM
  18. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Yeah the fact that you call them the democrats news agency pretty much speaks volumes.
    You have not address the issue that time and time again Fox news viewers are the least informed amd wrong on the issues. This along with the issue that Fox news has the most errors pure 1000 stories by healthy margin.
    I would trust Fox over CNN on any issue. That being said, Fox is not the only source I view.
    Posted on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on America's largest 4G LTE Network. Please excuse any errors.
    12-05-2013 01:17 PM
  19. Timelessblur's Avatar
    I would trust Fox over CNN on any issue and I know that I am more educated on these issues than you. That being said, Fox is not the only source I view.
    Posted on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on America's largest 4G LTE Network. Please excuse any errors.
    Yeah that answers a lot right there.
    You only trust Fox because they are the mouth piece of the GOP.

    Fox news earned their reputation as fake news for a reason. If it is political Fox is by far the most worthless.
    As for news I tend to turn to NPR.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    msndrstood likes this.
    12-05-2013 01:21 PM
  20. JW4VZW's Avatar
    Yeah that answers a lot right there.
    You only trust Fox because they are the mouth piece of the GOP.

    Fox news earned their reputation as fake news for a reason. If it is political Fox is by far the most worthless.
    As for news I tend to turn to NPR.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    You couldn't be anymore wrong.
    Posted on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 on America's largest 4G LTE Network. Please excuse any errors.
    12-05-2013 02:21 PM
  21. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Yeah that answers a lot right there.
    You only trust Fox because they are the mouth piece of the GOP.

    Fox news earned their reputation as fake news for a reason. If it is political Fox is by far the most worthless.
    As for news I tend to turn to NPR.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    It makes for excellent fact checking and entertainment, if nothing else. Far more entertaining than The Onion.

    ✌SG3/iPad2
    msndrstood likes this.
    12-09-2013 07:20 PM
71 123

Similar Threads

  1. It is still time to buy an HTC one ?
    By lurkerzz in forum HTC One M7
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 11-29-2013, 05:57 PM
  2. Samsung Galaxy Note 3 - Questions about s-pen writing?
    By dragoro in forum Samsung Galaxy Note 3
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-26-2013, 11:29 AM
  3. ART - Where is it?
    By capnfatpants in forum Google Nexus 7 Tablet (2012)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-26-2013, 09:19 AM
  4. My Note 3 T-Mobile phone Keeps Rebooting When I turn it off and then on again
    By Angel Martinez3 in forum General Help and How To
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-26-2013, 09:00 AM
  5. Republic Wireless and Moto X: Yes It's Amazing
    By michaels_epp in forum Moto X (2013)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-25-2013, 08:45 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD