03-05-2014 12:37 PM
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  1. Timelessblur's Avatar
    The clauses help protect pharmacists from doing anything that violates their personal beliefs. Obviously, if the clauses are a bad idea, people can get the laws repealed. In any case, not every state has them, so they may not affect you, depending on where you live.

    You bring up a great point about conscience clauses being bad for business. People can refuse to patronize pharmacies that follow the conscience clause. So, either the pharmacies will change their policies, or they will go out of business.
    It is a bad law and I would argue unconstitutional. An individual pharmacist yes (and that is pushing it) but a pharmacy should be required to have on staff at all time people who could fill those. Unwilling to do that your pharmacy loses it license completely.
    Refusing to stock the drug again same answer.

    I call the law unconstitutional because it forces religious beliefs onto others.
    If you have problems giving out the drugs then you need to find a new career.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    msndrstood likes this.
    01-06-2014 08:11 AM
  2. Tall Mike 2145's Avatar
    What if cooks refused to serve hamburgers at McDonald's? What if I refused to stock particular housewares items or chemicals at my retail job? What if everyone did this?
    msndrstood likes this.
    01-06-2014 08:17 AM
  3. SteveISU's Avatar
    This is why I believe we are better off as a secular society everywhere but in the home and in the church.
    msndrstood likes this.
    01-06-2014 10:48 AM
  4. rusty502's Avatar
    One of my biggest pet peeves is when people try to force their morality onto someone else (this of course excludes children that do need guidance so they may establish their own moral code). Strawman arguments tend to be, "So does that mean you're pro-murder and pro-rape?" If you follow the adage that your rights end when they intrude upon someone else's rights then you automatically eliminate that argument. You can take the argument in the opposite direction. If a gas station owner believes that your gas guzzling vehicle is killing the earth because of the emissions, is he then allowed to refuse to sell you fuel?

    These types of laws reek of the religious right trying to establish their moral code as law of the land. While I'm not Catholic, I can appreciate when Pope Francis came out and said enough is enough. If you want to judge someone judge yourself. Legislating morality does not make a country moral, it just means that its leaders don't trust the morality of its citizens, which is kind of sad.
    Could not agree more, well said!

    Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
    01-06-2014 11:38 AM
  5. llamabreath's Avatar
    If a gas station owner believes that your gas guzzling vehicle is killing the earth because of the emissions, is he then allowed to refuse to sell you fuel?
    Bad example.
    OF COURSE he could refuse to provide his service. It's his gas station!




    I think signatures are stupid.

    (⊙.⊙)
    01-06-2014 02:13 PM
  6. anon8126715's Avatar
    Bad example.
    OF COURSE he could refuse to provide his service. It's his gas station!




    I think signatures are stupid.

    (⊙.⊙)
    Ok, not the owner, but a gas station attendant, does that make for a better example? Here's one that should have the religious right totally confounded, what about a retail worker that refused to sell a gun to someone because they thought it was immoral for someone to have a product designed to kill?
    msndrstood likes this.
    01-06-2014 07:56 PM
  7. llamabreath's Avatar
    Here's one that should have the religious right totally confounded, what about a retail worker that refused to sell a gun to someone because they thought it was immoral for someone to have a product designed to kill?
    MUCH better.




    I think signatures are stupid.
    01-06-2014 08:04 PM
  8. SteveISU's Avatar
    Ok, not the owner, but a gas station attendant, does that make for a better example? Here's one that should have the religious right totally confounded, what about a retail worker that refused to sell a gun to someone because they thought it was immoral for someone to have a product designed to kill?
    More times than not if someone works at Wal-Mart and has an issue handling guns, the store manager won't have them perform that task. They'll stay out of the outdoors section and work women clothing. Problem here is there is usually only one Pharm per shift, the rest you see behind the counter are techs.

    Lets keep our eye on the subject though, which is a Pharmacist not filling a prescription that an MD wants his/her patient to take. Internists get nailed to the wall for delay of diagnosis/care, I hope Pharmacists have liability insurance if this is the road we're heading down.
    msndrstood likes this.
    01-07-2014 10:40 AM
  9. Mooncatt's Avatar
    More times than not if someone works at Wal-Mart and has an issue handling guns, the store manager won't have them perform that task. They'll stay out of the outdoors section and work women clothing. Problem here is there is usually only one Pharm per shift, the rest you see behind the counter are techs.
    If a pharmacist is unwilling, then go to another pharmacy. This is something that can easily be dealt with without more government interference. I'm willing to bet most doctors will know if a particular pharmacy doesn't sell a birth control option and can let the patient know ahead of time not to go there.
    01-07-2014 12:41 PM
  10. SteveISU's Avatar
    If a pharmacist is unwilling, then go to another pharmacy. This is something that can easily be dealt with without more government interference. I'm willing to bet most doctors will know if a particular pharmacy doesn't sell a birth control option and can let the patient know ahead of time not to go there.
    Hows that work in smaller towns that don't have a Walgreen's on every corner?
    msndrstood and nolittdroid like this.
    01-07-2014 12:53 PM
  11. Mooncatt's Avatar
    In this day in age, pretty much every town that has one pharmacy has two or more. Even the small one horse towns. If you happen to live in a town so small and only have one pharmacist that also happens to not deal birth control, it's a safe bet it's one of those tight knit communities where the patient is of the same belief. Can you demonstrate any actual stories where this has been a problem?

    Better yet, any stories where a pharmacist refused to sell a birth control prescription made for non-contraceptive reasons? I've never talked to anyone with such beliefs, but is it that plausible that a pharmacist would be so against birth control that they wouldn't even sell it for other legit reasons?
    01-07-2014 01:49 PM
  12. SteveISU's Avatar
    In this day in age, pretty much every town that has one pharmacy has two or more. Even the small one horse towns. If you happen to live in a town so small and only have one pharmacist that also happens to not deal birth control, it's a safe bet it's one of those tight knit communities where the patient is of the same belief. Can you demonstrate any actual stories where this has been a problem?

    Better yet, any stories where a pharmacist refused to sell a birth control prescription made for non-contraceptive reasons? I've never talked to anyone with such beliefs, but is it that plausible that a pharmacist would be so against birth control that they wouldn't even sell it for other legit reasons?
    A pharmacist doesn't know what that patient is taking BC for. They don't ask, they aren't told, you don't have to provide a diagnosis in order to get a prescription filled. My wife shouldn't have to have a conversation with him/her when she pick's it up, violating every HIPAA law on the books, about the manner in which she will be using it. That's between her and her doctor.

    Technically all sex should be for procreation in the eyes of the Catholic Church, lets start refusing to give a 65yr old viagra.
    msndrstood likes this.
    01-07-2014 01:56 PM
  13. Scott7217's Avatar
    If you have problems giving out the drugs then you need to find a new career.
    I did a quick search on the top prescription drugs sold in the US. Per WebMD, the top drugs prescribed in 2010 were:

    1. Hydrocodone (combined with acetaminophen) -- 131.2 million prescriptions

    2 .Generic Zocor (simvastatin), a cholesterol-lowering statin drug -- 94.1 million prescriptions

    3. Lisinopril (brand names include Prinivil and Zestril), a blood pressure drug -- 87.4 million prescriptions

    4. Generic Synthroid (levothyroxine sodium), synthetic thyroid hormone -- 70.5 million prescriptions

    5. Generic Norvasc (amlodipine besylate), an angina/blood pressure drug -- 57.2 million prescriptions

    6. Generic Prilosec (omeprazole), an antacid drug -- 53.4 million prescriptions (does not include over-the-counter sales)

    7. Azithromycin (brand names include Z-Pak and Zithromax), an antibiotic -- 52.6 million prescriptions

    8. Amoxicillin (various brand names), an antibiotic -- 52.3 million prescriptions

    9. Generic Glucophage (metformin), a diabetes drug -- 48.3 million prescriptions

    10. Hydrochlorothiazide (various brand names), a water pill used to lower blood pressure -- 47.8 million prescriptions.

    Source

    Given these data points, it sounds like a pharmacy could just sell these medications and still make a decent living. Birth control pills haven't even cracked the top 10 list.
    01-07-2014 02:13 PM
  14. NoYankees44's Avatar
    A pharmacist that works in a pharmacy refusing to fill a prescription is completely different than a pharmacy refusing to provide a prescription. 2 Separate discussions.
    01-07-2014 02:14 PM
  15. Scott7217's Avatar
    A pharmacist that works in a pharmacy refusing to fill a prescription is completely different than a pharmacy refusing to provide a prescription. 2 Separate discussions.
    The discussions can overlap if there is only one pharmacist that works at a particular pharmacy, but you do bring up a good point. If two or more pharmacists work at the same pharmacy, but only one of the pharmacists is invoking the conscience clause, there is no issue if the other pharmacist is willing to fill the prescription. If that's the situation, it may be difficult to challenge conscience clauses in court because the second pharmacist essentially removes the problem.
    01-07-2014 02:25 PM
  16. NoYankees44's Avatar
    The discussions can overlap if there is only one pharmacist that works at a particular pharmacy, but you do bring up a good point. If two or more pharmacists work at the same pharmacy, but only one of the pharmacists is invoking the conscience clause, there is no issue if the other pharmacist is willing to fill the prescription. If that's the situation, it may be difficult to challenge conscience clauses in court because the second pharmacist essentially removes the problem.
    A pharmacist is hired to fill prescriptions. If they do not like the policy of a pharmacy, they are free to work elsewhere if that pharmacy is not willing to accommodate. This is only an issue if ALL pharmacies are required to carry whatever drug by law. Then these pharmacists have a leg to stand on in court.

    Now i may be ignorant to how pharmacies work(if i am tell me), but does someone not own the pharmacy? That owner should have some control over the goods that the pharmacy provides. The owner refusing to provide any certain medicine in a store they own is a completely different conversation than a pharmacist refusing to perform a task they were hired to do.

    Are all pharmacies required to fill prescriptions for every imaginable drug? I have a hard time thinking this is true, but maybe it is. If it is, then there should be some sort of allowance for religious beliefs. I mean the Catholics did not start disbelieving in birth control yesterday. The owner should have some sort of say in what is provided under his roof.
    01-07-2014 02:37 PM
  17. jdbii's Avatar
    Are all pharmacies required to fill prescriptions for every imaginable drug? I have a hard time thinking this is true, but maybe it is. If it is, then there should be some sort of allowance for religious beliefs. I mean the Catholics did not start disbelieving in birth control yesterday. The owner should have some sort of say in what is provided under his roof.
    The pharmacy as well as the pharmacist has to comply with whatever the governing state licensing requirements are.
    palandri and msndrstood like this.
    01-07-2014 02:46 PM
  18. Timelessblur's Avatar
    The discussions can overlap if there is only one pharmacist that works at a particular pharmacy, but you do bring up a good point. If two or more pharmacists work at the same pharmacy, but only one of the pharmacists is invoking the conscience clause, there is no issue if the other pharmacist is willing to fill the prescription. If that's the situation, it may be difficult to challenge conscience clauses in court because the second pharmacist essentially removes the problem.
    If their is only one Pharmacist on staff at the time then the clause should be void and in that case it is the pharmacy refusing to fill it and as such should lose their license.

    In this day in age, pretty much every town that has one pharmacy has two or more. Even the small one horse towns. If you happen to live in a town so small and only have one pharmacist that also happens to not deal birth control, it's a safe bet it's one of those tight knit communities where the patient is of the same belief. Can you demonstrate any actual stories where this has been a problem?

    Better yet, any stories where a pharmacist refused to sell a birth control prescription made for non-contraceptive reasons? I've never talked to anyone with such beliefs, but is it that plausible that a pharmacist would be so against birth control that they wouldn't even sell it for other legit reasons?
    No it is not a safe bet. It is a very safe bet that in that small town there are a few people who want it. Relatively few but still a few. It is not acceptable and that so called wannabe pharmacist should get a new line of work.

    The law is a bad law as I addressed. Up above I explain the solutions. If the pharmany wants to allow that option they should be required by law to a Pharmacist on staff AND WORKING at the time. Other wise then no they should not be able to do it.
    This entire law is from Right wing crazy crew forcing their belief on others.
    msndrstood likes this.
    01-07-2014 03:06 PM
  19. palandri's Avatar
    ...Are all pharmacies required to fill prescriptions for every imaginable drug? I have a hard time thinking this is true, but maybe it is. If it is, then there should be some sort of allowance for religious beliefs. I mean the Catholics did not start disbelieving in birth control yesterday. The owner should have some sort of say in what is provided under his roof.
    You need to look at state licensing requirements. Religion and science (and medicine) don't mix. Look at the Holy Ghost people who play with live rattlesnakes. If they get bitten or their children get bitten, they aren't allowed by their religion to treat the bite. They believe that it was the will of God. and if they die, it was the will of God. Many are in jail for their ridiculous religious beliefs and letting their children die from a rattlesnake bite.
    msndrstood likes this.
    01-07-2014 03:12 PM
  20. SteveISU's Avatar
    Are all pharmacies required to fill prescriptions for every imaginable drug? I have a hard time thinking this is true, but maybe it is. If it is, then there should be some sort of allowance for religious beliefs. I mean the Catholics did not start disbelieving in birth control yesterday. The owner should have some sort of say in what is provided under his roof.
    Not all pharmacies carry all drugs, but most if not all can order anything. We're talking the rare drugs or the drugs that aren't generic in which the pharmacy may not want to carry because they don't make as much money on them.

    Let's say I'm the owner of Walgreen's and I want to allow birth control to be dispensed, yet I have a holy roller of a Pharmacist who refuses to do so in one of my stores. Can I fire him? Who's gonna protect me from the impending lawsuit? You know it's coming, I discriminated against him due to his religion. All i gotta say is your heading down a slippery slope.
    msndrstood and Tall Mike 2145 like this.
    01-07-2014 03:20 PM
  21. NoYankees44's Avatar
    You need to look at state licensing requirements. Religion and science (and medicine) don't mix. Look at the Holy Ghost people who play with live rattlesnakes. If they get bitten or their children get bitten, they aren't allowed by their religion to treat the bite. They believe that it was the will of God. and if they die, it was the will of God. Many are in jail for their ridiculous religious beliefs and letting their children die from a rattlesnake bite.
    This has nothing to do with religion vs science. You are allowing your hatred of religion to influence the discussion.

    This has everything to do with a person being able to control what goods the facility that they own provide. Do we require every store with a sporting goods section to sell guns and ammo? Do we require every store with a magazine rack to sell pornography? There should be some Avenue for a pharmacy to go down if their owner does not want to provide a drug for justifiable religious reasons.
    01-07-2014 03:23 PM
  22. SteveISU's Avatar
    This has nothing to do with religion vs science. You are allowing your hatred of religion to influence the discussion.

    This has everything to do with a person being able to control what goods the facility that they own provide. Do we require every store with a sporting goods section to sell guns and ammo? Do we require every store with a magazine rack to sell pornography? There should be some Avenue for a pharmacy to go down if their owner does not want to provide a drug for justifiable religious reasons.
    I can get my guns at a gun store, I can go to the porn shop if Borders is all out of Hustler, were do I go to get my drugs other than the pharmacy?
    msndrstood likes this.
    01-07-2014 03:26 PM
  23. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I can get my guns at a gun store, I can go to the porn shop if Borders is all out of Hustler, were do I go to get my drugs other than the pharmacy?
    Publicly owned pharmacy... Or private that provides whatever you need.
    01-07-2014 03:33 PM
  24. palandri's Avatar
    This has nothing to do with religion vs science. You are allowing your hatred of religion to influence the discussion.

    This has everything to do with a person being able to control what goods the facility that they own provide. Do we require every store with a sporting goods section to sell guns and ammo? Do we require every store with a magazine rack to sell pornography? There should be some Avenue for a pharmacy to go down if their owner does not want to provide a drug for justifiable religious reasons.
    It has everything to do with religion vs science/medicine.
    01-07-2014 03:35 PM
  25. Timelessblur's Avatar
    A pharmacist is hired to fill prescriptions. If they do not like the policy of a pharmacy, they are free to work elsewhere if that pharmacy is not willing to accommodate. This is only an issue if ALL pharmacies are required to carry whatever drug by law. Then these pharmacists have a leg to stand on in court.

    Now i may be ignorant to how pharmacies work(if i am tell me), but does someone not own the pharmacy? That owner should have some control over the goods that the pharmacy provides. The owner refusing to provide any certain medicine in a store they own is a completely different conversation than a pharmacist refusing to perform a task they were hired to do.

    Are all pharmacies required to fill prescriptions for every imaginable drug? I have a hard time thinking this is true, but maybe it is. If it is, then there should be some sort of allowance for religious beliefs. I mean the Catholics did not start disbelieving in birth control yesterday. The owner should have some sort of say in what is provided under his roof.
    It is really if you have problems filling any drug you need a different line of work. Sorry freedom of religion does not mean you can impose your religion on others. As drugs are perscribe for a long list of reason but does not mean you can use this as your get out of jail free card.

    The entire law is the extreme right wing forcing their belief down on others.
    msndrstood and nolittdroid like this.
    01-07-2014 03:36 PM
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