03-05-2014 12:37 PM
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  1. llamabreath's Avatar
    If someone wants to preach their religion, MY RIGHTS should not be violated. I agree, they should find a more suitable profession.

    ✌SG3/iPad2
    It's also a right to preach your religion. But to PUSH it on others is wrong, imo.




    >>> Sent from Hotlanta
    nolittdroid and Scott7217 like this.
    01-20-2014 08:18 AM
  2. anon8126715's Avatar
    If someone wants to preach their religion, MY RIGHTS should not be violated. I agree, they should find a more suitable profession.

    ✌SG3/iPad2
    That's what I'm saying, if they want to spread their religion (much like a farmer spreads fertilizer IMO) do not share it with those that do not want to hear it, and do not subject someone to your moral standards. It is the trait of a tyrant if you ask me.

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2
    01-20-2014 09:52 AM
  3. jdbii's Avatar
    The original case took 7 years to reach a decision from the appeals court. It's possible that someone could challenge Plan B in court in another 7 years, even with its over the counter status.
    I don't know what the issue would be to bring something like this to court. The pharmacists were challenging a law. There is no law to challenge the hypothetical you present. Seems to be easier if there is actually a law on the books, both for the pharmacist or the customer trying to legally attack it. Otherwise you just fall back onto constitutional challenges. There is no specially protected class of persons, like race, or in the Oregon wedding cake case, sexual orientation.

    Birth control, or rather reproductive rights of women, I believe, has some constitutional privacy protections extended to it, but I don't see how privacy could be raised by not stocking an unregulated product that can be bought and sold anywhere, short of proving deliberate discrimination. But then you still need to prove discrimination against a "who." I suppose you could go after it as discrimination against women because gender (I think) is protected, and most state constitutions probably have no-discrimination based on gender written into them. That might be the best legal challenge, but the problem is we are talking about an unregulated consumer product that probably could be sold anywhere. Not any sort of expert on any of this, but I think the store owner rights, (whatever they are, First Amendment??), would trump. As a side note, this might seem pathetically pedantic, but men can buy OTC Plan B as well. Even though men don't use it, I believe the simple fact that they can purchase it would complicate any gender-based discrimination lawsuit against a store.

    I want to add this caveat -- I'm not in any way shape or form supportive of denying woman access to health, meds, or Plan B, and I feel kind of like a scumbag for even writing about it and conceding that it is probably legal to deny Plan B if its non-prescription. I'm more or less raising issues and discussing hurdles that potentially stand in the way of compelling a store owner to sell an unregulated product. What's really out of whack about this whole discussion, and it was raised earlier, is that men should not be the ones are the principle players on this issue. It is ludicrous, insane, and whatever crazy word I can think of, that this issue is in any way determined by men, but sadly most legislators and judges are men. Sure, we have wives and daughters and loved ones and have a right to be part of the discussion, but not the ones who decide.
    01-20-2014 02:17 PM
  4. Scott7217's Avatar
    To me it's a slippery slope. Why only make exceptions for Christian based beliefs? Why not allow Muslim pharmacists to stone a woman who requests birth control because he was taught that it is inappropriate for a woman to be sexually active?
    The conscience clauses I've read are written in a way that don't mention any religion by name. So they could apply to anyone with any religion. They could also apply to people who don't follow a religion at all. In any case, pharmacists are only allowed to refuse dispensing the prescription. Pharmacists are not allowed to attack their customers.
    01-22-2014 07:21 AM
  5. Scott7217's Avatar
    If someone wants to preach their religion, MY RIGHTS should not be violated. I agree, they should find a more suitable profession.
    I would agree. We simply need to specify which rights have been violated, then we can bring the people responsible to court. For example, let's say the pharmacists at a drug store decide to only sell products suitable for women, including contraceptives like birth control pills. There are no products for men at this particular pharmacy. Since I am a man, are any of my rights violated if I decide to shop there? Honestly, I would probably just go to a different pharmacy if I were faced with such a situation.

    As for figuring out whether pharmacists are suitable for the profession, I leave that judgment to the drug store employer and the state board of pharmacy.
    01-22-2014 07:32 AM
  6. Scott7217's Avatar
    It's also a right to preach your religion. But to PUSH it on others is wrong, imo.
    Are customers allowed to push their beliefs onto the pharmacists? For example, let's say the pharmacists are fine with selling birth control pills in the pharmacy. However, a group of customers who don't believe in contraception demand that the pharmacists take the birth control pills out of the inventory. Should the pharmacists simply do what the customers ask and just remove the birth control pills?
    01-22-2014 07:36 AM
  7. Scott7217's Avatar
    It is the trait of a tyrant if you ask me.
    Have you ever shopped at CVS, Rite-Aid, Walgreens, or Walmart? They all have conscience clauses as part of their official store policies. Are these tyrannical companies?
    01-22-2014 07:40 AM
  8. llamabreath's Avatar
    Are customers allowed to push their beliefs onto the pharmacists? For example, let's say the pharmacists are fine with selling birth control pills in the pharmacy. However, a group of customers who don't believe in contraception demand that the pharmacists take the birth control pills out of the inventory. Should the pharmacists simply do what the customers ask and just remove the birth control pills?
    Maybe if it was a one-horse town and it was the only pharmacy around and that was the opinion of all the customers....
    but otherwise, no.
    Like I just said before -
    Nobody should PUSH their beliefs on ANYBODY.



    >>> Sent from Coldlanta
    01-22-2014 07:48 AM
  9. Scott7217's Avatar
    Maybe if it was a one-horse town and it was the only pharmacy around and that was the opinion of all the customers....
    So, what if one customer disagrees with the other customers? Should the pharmacy yield to the majority, or should it stick up for the lone hold-out?
    01-22-2014 07:55 AM
  10. llamabreath's Avatar
    So, what if one customer disagrees with the other customers? Should the pharmacy yield to the majority, or should it stick up for the lone hold-out?
    Notice I said "ALL".




    >>> Sent from Coldlanta
    01-22-2014 07:57 AM
  11. Scott7217's Avatar
    Notice I said "ALL".
    Exactly. So, the pharmacy should support the lone hold-out. There's nothing to prevent the pharmacist from shopping at the same store, right? The pharmacist would be the hold-out.
    01-22-2014 08:22 AM
  12. llamabreath's Avatar
    Exactly. So, the pharmacy should support the lone hold-out. There's nothing to prevent the pharmacist from shopping at the same store, right? The pharmacist would be the hold-out.
    LOL LOL, good one, you got me.




    >>> Sent from Coldlanta
    01-22-2014 09:11 AM
  13. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Have you ever shopped at CVS, Rite-Aid, Walgreens, or Walmart? They all have conscience clauses as part of their official store policies. Are these tyrannical companies?
    Wal-Mart definitely is, but these companies know better than to patronize these conservative wing nuts. Its bad for business.

    ✌SG3/iPad2
    01-22-2014 10:32 AM
  14. anon8126715's Avatar
    Have you ever shopped at CVS, Rite-Aid, Walgreens, or Walmart? They all have conscience clauses as part of their official store policies. Are these tyrannical companies?
    Maybe, Maybe, Maybe, and YES......
    01-22-2014 06:36 PM
  15. Scott7217's Avatar
    Wal-Mart definitely is, but these companies know better than to patronize these conservative wing nuts. Its bad for business.
    If conscience clauses were bad for business, do you expect CVS, Rite-Aid, Walgreens, and Walmart to change their policies and drop the conscience clauses?
    01-24-2014 04:21 PM
  16. Scott7217's Avatar
    Maybe, Maybe, Maybe, and YES......
    So, basically these 4 companies have you cornered, right? You have no choice but to buy your medication from them, even though they have conscience clauses.
    01-24-2014 04:24 PM
  17. Scott7217's Avatar
    What's really out of whack about this whole discussion, and it was raised earlier, is that men should not be the ones are the principle players on this issue. It is ludicrous, insane, and whatever crazy word I can think of, that this issue is in any way determined by men, but sadly most legislators and judges are men. Sure, we have wives and daughters and loved ones and have a right to be part of the discussion, but not the ones who decide.
    Who should decide issues that affect contraception? Is this strictly a woman's issue, or is it an issue shared between women and men?
    01-24-2014 04:35 PM
  18. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Who should decide issues that affect contraception? Is this strictly a woman's issue, or is it an issue shared between women and men?
    It is a WOMAN'S decision and HER DOCTOR'S decision. Men have NO PLACE in the discussion of birth control! Stop trying to act like you have the right to something you know nothing of, because at the end of the day a phamarcist has the right to deny me a medication because he believes in a nonentity higher power, in the name of "his conscience". Men have no business in these discussions, whatsoever, yet for some reason feel they have the right to an opinion, no matter how misinformed they are.

    We should be not discussing whether or not a nosy pharmacist has the right to deny a CUSTOMER the right to purchase medication a REAL DOCTOR prescribed to them when people cannot feed their families or find jobs. The religious right needs to refocus on Jesus's methods and stop trying to control what women do in an effort to cut down Roe V Wade. I'm so sick of it.

    This graphic sums it up nicely:
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...61999177_n.jpg

    Conscience Clauses-1536733_637292779665598_1561999177_n.jpg
    01-24-2014 07:09 PM
  19. Mooncatt's Avatar
    It is a WOMAN'S decision and HER DOCTOR'S decision. Men have NO PLACE in the discussion of birth control! Stop trying to act like you have the right to something you know nothing of... Men have no business in these discussions, whatsoever, yet for some reason feel they have the right to an opinion, no matter how misinformed they are.
    So the man in a committed relationship should go by whatever the woman wants with no input as well? What if the situation was reversed, and the woman wanted a kid but the man didn't? By your logic, the man should give it up to her without question, without so much as a condom. That isn't exactly right either. Or lets say it's a woman of lesser morals that gets knocked up just to trap a man for the child support. Sure, he could turn her down, but I wouldn't put it past that kind of woman to then try blackmail for refusing.

    Sorry, when it comes to contraception, the men DO have a say when they are the ones involved. Otherwise you're saying they're nothing but a "donor" with a bank account to mooch off of.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    01-24-2014 07:40 PM
  20. nolittdroid's Avatar
    So the man in a committed relationship should go by whatever the woman wants with no input as well? What if the situation was reversed, and the woman wanted a kid but the man didn't? By your logic, the man should give it up to her without question, without so much as a condom. That isn't exactly right either. Or lets say it's a woman of lesser morals that gets knocked up just to trap a man for the child support. Sure, he could turn her down, but I wouldn't put it past that kind of woman to then try blackmail for refusing.

    Sorry, when it comes to contraception, the men DO have a say when they are the ones involved. Otherwise you're saying they're nothing but a "donor" with a bank account to mooch off of.
    Sorry, but we're not talking about condoms. There is no conscience clause with regard to condoms. If men are being tricked by women as often as people think it happens, maybe the men should pick their partners better and insist on condoms more often instead of trusting a woman who says she's on birth control. It is really irritating how if two people have sex, only one party has to live with the consequences, don't you think? We should have the rights to our own bodies.

    And with regard to the thread topic, birth control is far more than just contraception. Men typically have no clue what other benefits birth control offers. Since they don't benefit from it, other than contraception, I don't really understand why men think they should have an opinion.
    01-24-2014 08:41 PM
  21. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Birth control is more than just the pill. It's any form of contraception. Regardless, if a man has a role in making a baby, he has a role in deciding contraception, be it a pill, condom, or otherwise. It's something all parties involved need to agree on. That's different than the thread topic, but the way you laid out that opinion was very insulting to any self respecting male.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    01-24-2014 09:19 PM
  22. palandri's Avatar
    .....but the way you laid out that opinion was very insulting to any self respecting male.
    Not to me.
    jdbii, msndrstood and nolittdroid like this.
    01-24-2014 09:29 PM
  23. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Not to me.
    Must be because someone not on the left is saying all parties involved with a sex act should be responsible when it comes to the reality that it could lead to an unwanted pregnancy.
    01-24-2014 09:37 PM
  24. Scott7217's Avatar
    Men have NO PLACE in the discussion of birth control!
    When you say men have no place in the discussion of birth control, does that include their votes? I will give an example. Let's say there is a state ballot initiative to decide whether health insurance should cover birth control pills and other forms of contraception.

    At the end of voting, the results are 1500 votes to allow coverage of birth control pills. Out of those 1500 votes, 900 votes were from women, and 600 votes were from men. On the other side, 1100 votes were against the coverage. Out of those 1100 votes, 1000 votes were from women, and 100 votes were from men.

    Should we count the votes from the men? If we do, the final tally will be 1500 versus 1100, and the ballot initiative passes (i.e. birth control pills are covered by insurance). If we exclude men (under the assumption that men have no place in the discussion of birth control), the new tally will be 900 versus 1000, and the ballot initiative fails (i.e. birth control pills are NOT covered by insurance).

    How should we handle voting when the issue at stake is birth control?
    01-24-2014 11:19 PM
  25. Scott7217's Avatar
    It is a WOMAN'S decision and HER DOCTOR'S decision.
    Can the prescribing physician be a man, or are only physicians who are women eligible to write a prescription for birth control pills?
    01-24-2014 11:23 PM
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