03-05-2014 12:37 PM
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  1. Scott7217's Avatar
    Men have no business in these discussions, whatsoever, yet for some reason feel they have the right to an opinion, no matter how misinformed they are.
    Isn't expressing an opinion, even if it is unpopular, protected under the First Amendment? If the opinion is misinformed, the solution would be to simply present the correct information, not shut down someone's ability to speak freely.
    01-24-2014 11:28 PM
  2. jdbii's Avatar
    Who should decide issues that affect contraception? Is this strictly a woman's issue, or is it an issue shared between women and men?
    Women trump. It is a shared issue between couples, but it's a woman's choice. Woman are the ones who carry the child to term, assume the health risks for herself which even today can put a woman's life in danger, and invariably are the primary caretakers. It is wonderful that men are responsible and active parents these days but there is no comparison -- no equivalency -- between what women face during pregnancy and what men face.
    01-24-2014 11:29 PM
  3. jdbii's Avatar
    Can the prescribing physician be a man, or are only physicians who are women eligible to write a prescription for birth control pills?
    Any doctor. It is a pretty darn high standard to become a doctor. Doctor's also can't be forced to write prescriptions. (Funny that I"m saying that after all the talk about pharmacists and me saying they would have to fill the prescription and comply with state licensing boards). Doctors adhere to a standard of care, something like what other similarly situated doctor would do. They just don't blindly give out prescriptions, and not all doctors agree on courses of treatment. It's consensus driven.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    01-24-2014 11:34 PM
  4. Scott7217's Avatar
    Sorry, when it comes to contraception, the men DO have a say when they are the ones involved.
    I'd like to throw in another example. Let's say there is a couple consisting of a man who is in a heterosexual relationship with a woman who uses birth control pills. Let's also say there is a second couple consisting of a woman who is in a lesbian relationship with a different woman. Which one has more say in the issue of birth control? Is it the man or the lesbian woman? Does the fact that the lesbian is a woman automatically mean that she has more standing when it comes to birth control issues?
    01-24-2014 11:38 PM
  5. Scott7217's Avatar
    Men typically have no clue what other benefits birth control offers.
    Would better education solve this problem? Maybe men should learn more about contraception, especially the methods that women use.
    01-24-2014 11:41 PM
  6. jdbii's Avatar
    I'd like to throw in another example. Let's say there is a couple consisting of a man who is in a heterosexual relationship with a woman who uses birth control pills. Let's also say there is a second couple consisting of a woman who is in a lesbian relationship with a different woman. Which one has more say in the issue of birth control? Is it the man or the lesbian woman? Does the fact that the lesbian is a woman automatically mean that she has more standing when it comes to birth control issues?
    There is no difference in that scenario between couples. The child-bearing women in both couples trumps. (imo).
    Scott7217 likes this.
    01-24-2014 11:43 PM
  7. Scott7217's Avatar
    Women trump. It is a shared issue between couples, but it's a woman's choice.
    So, in court cases involving birth control pills, should male judges recuse themselves? Should only female judges decide on court cases involving birth control pills?
    01-24-2014 11:48 PM
  8. jdbii's Avatar
    So, in court cases involving birth control pills, should male judges recuse themselves? Should only female judges decide on court cases involving birth control pills?
    Judges are suppose to recuse themselves from cases where they will be bias. There probably have been cases like this where a male judge did in fact recuse himself. But to answer your question, "no," judges male and female have the right to hear cases like this if they feel like they will follow the law.

    A more pertinent question would actually be, I believe, is should male jurors be allowed to hear cases like this. And I guess my answer to that would be yes. The law is not perfect, but judges do ask jurors to follow the law and not let personal bias dictate how they decide.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    01-24-2014 11:56 PM
  9. Tall Mike 2145's Avatar
    This discussion has become completely irrational and now amounts to little more than the petulant squabbling between children. In my opinion, this thread should be locked.
    01-25-2014 12:21 AM
  10. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Would better education solve this problem? Maybe men should learn more about contraception, especially the methods that women use.
    As if this solution would solve anything. Plenty of GOP leaders have shown they ignore science in the name of religion. Education wouldn't solve a religious bias.

    ✌SG3/iPad2
    01-25-2014 10:36 AM
  11. Scott7217's Avatar
    Education wouldn't solve a religious bias.
    If that's the case, what can solve a religious bias? Is there a solution?
    01-25-2014 11:36 AM
  12. palandri's Avatar
    If that's the case, what can solve a religious bias? Is there a solution?
    Contact with an alien civilization a million years ahead of us.
    01-25-2014 12:20 PM
  13. llamabreath's Avatar
    Contact with an alien civilization a million years ahead of us.
    Or... a million years BEFORE us.
    Hmm....




    >>> Sent from Hotlanta
    01-25-2014 12:22 PM
  14. llamabreath's Avatar
    If that's the case, what can solve a religious bias? Is there a solution?
    I seriously doubt that anything can fix a religious bias. It would have to come from within.




    >>> Sent from Hotlanta
    01-25-2014 12:23 PM
  15. anon8126715's Avatar
    So, basically these 4 companies have you cornered, right? You have no choice but to buy your medication from them, even though they have conscience clauses.
    Actually, I haven't bought a prescription drug in about 4 years. Back about 10 years ago when my grandfather passed away at the ripe old age of 93, he was at my aunt's house when she noticed that he stopped breathing. She called the ambulance and when the EMTs asked her what medications he was on, they were genuinely surprised when she told them that he wasn't on any medications.

    From that point I told myself that I would aspire to live to those standards. Not to mention the fact that I don't really subscribe to the notion that I can take a little pill that, while it won't actually cure my ailment, will actually mask a symptom of the actual disease, AND may induce other symptoms that may require OTHER medications. The way I see it, the symptom is my body's way of trying to fix itself. Why would I try to disable a function of my own body?

    It's a good thing I didn't decide to become a Pharmacist, ehh? I'd deny all this crap to all you *#&!&#ers!!
    Scott7217 likes this.
    01-25-2014 01:30 PM
  16. msndrstood's Avatar
    Actually, I haven't bought a prescription drug in about 4 years. Back about 10 years ago when my grandfather passed away at the ripe old age of 93, he was at my aunt's house when she noticed that he stopped breathing. She called the ambulance and when the EMTs asked her what medications he was on, they were genuinely surprised when she told them that he wasn't on any medications.

    From that point I told myself that I would aspire to live to those standards. Not to mention the fact that I don't really subscribe to the notion that I can take a little pill that, while it won't actually cure my ailment, will actually mask a symptom of the actual disease, AND may induce other symptoms that may require OTHER medications. The way I see it, the symptom is my body's way of trying to fix itself. Why would I try to disable a function of my own body?

    It's a good thing I didn't decide to become a Pharmacist, ehh? I'd deny all this crap to all you *#&!&#ers!!
    I'd love to say that, unfortunately if I stopped taking my 4 BP meds, I'd be dead in a week.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    01-25-2014 01:59 PM
  17. anon8126715's Avatar
    I'd love to say that, unfortunately if I stopped taking my 4 BP meds, I'd be dead in a week.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    With some of the posts in this section, you should ask Android Central if they can get you a prescription strength ignore button that would.... Conscience Clauses-computer-slap.gif
    01-25-2014 02:18 PM
  18. msndrstood's Avatar
    With some of the posts in this section, you should ask Android Central if they can get you a prescription strength ignore button that would.... Click image for larger version. 

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    Ahaha, that would a well used button!

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    01-25-2014 02:19 PM
  19. Scott7217's Avatar
    A more pertinent question would actually be, I believe, is should male jurors be allowed to hear cases like this. And I guess my answer to that would be yes.
    Of course, male jurors would have to go through a strict jury selection process. Anyone with obvious conflicts of interest would be excluded. However, if they can get through jury selection, it would appear that men could hear testimony in court cases related to birth control and vote on the outcome. Would you agree?
    01-26-2014 12:43 PM
  20. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Often times at least one side will bring in an expert witness to educate the jury on things relating to a trial. So it shouldn't matter who's on the jury.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    01-26-2014 01:04 PM
  21. jdbii's Avatar
    Of course, male jurors would have to go through a strict jury selection process. Anyone with obvious conflicts of interest would be excluded. However, if they can get through jury selection, it would appear that men could hear testimony in court cases related to birth control and vote on the outcome. Would you agree?
    Yes. I agree.

    If no women jurors were selected, I think the outcome would be vulnerable on appeal due to incompetency of the lawyer.
    palandri and Scott7217 like this.
    01-26-2014 01:45 PM
  22. Scott7217's Avatar
    If no women jurors were selected, I think the outcome would be vulnerable on appeal due to incompetency of the lawyer.
    That's a good point. So, let's say the jury is comprised of both women and men. Would the female jurors trump the male jurors in court cases related to birth control?
    01-27-2014 04:31 AM
  23. jdbii's Avatar
    That's a good point. So, let's say the jury is comprised of both women and men. Would the female jurors trump the male jurors in court cases related to birth control?
    She only trumps with her vote. All votes are equal during jury deliberations. Whether or not one single juror can influence the vote of others is an open question. The outcome is determined by competing personalities, beliefs, and life experiences. Once those doors close and jury deliberations begin it's outside everybody's control except those in the room casting votes.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    01-27-2014 10:04 AM
  24. Scott7217's Avatar
    All votes are equal during jury deliberations.
    So, when it comes to birth control, we have looked at the following situations so far:

    1. Both female and male physicians can prescribe birth control pills.

    2. Both female and male judges can preside over court cases involving birth control issues.

    3. Both female and male jurors can deliberate in court cases that deal with birth control issues, and their jury votes are equal.

    Therefore, should we accept or reject the notion that men have no business in issues related to birth control?
    01-27-2014 02:04 PM
  25. jdbii's Avatar
    So, when it comes to birth control, we have looked at the following situations so far:

    1. Both female and male physicians can prescribe birth control pills.

    2. Both female and male judges can preside over court cases involving birth control issues.

    3. Both female and male jurors can deliberate in court cases that deal with birth control issues, and their jury votes are equal.

    Therefore, should we accept or reject the notion that men have no business in issues related to birth control?
    Touche, but yes.... woman get to decide. Any adult gets to make their own decisions about their health regardless of gender. Many others have vested interests, participate, provide health, make policy, enforce the law, and vote on outcomes, but in matters of health there is a long established tradition that individuals have personal autonomy over their bodies. So, for instance, if you have cancer you get to decide whether or not you want to undergo a third round of chemotherapy, or if you've simply had enough and you're ready to go peacefully. Throw testicular cancer as the example above, or Viagra if we want the example to be male meds, and all those bullet points you make would equally apply. I would support a man to make his own decisions about his health in those cases as well. Pregnancy and matters of reproduction are so much more difficult and complicated because of the controversy of when life begins. However, woman have been dying in childbirth since the beginning of time. Not so much the last 50 to 100 years, but they still get gestational diabetes, ectopic pregnancies and any other number of serious health consequences. They bear and face those consequences alone. So as far as I am concerned they get to make their own decisions.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    01-27-2014 05:52 PM
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