06-30-2015 05:00 PM
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  1. anon8126715's Avatar
    The biggest problem I have with the death penalty is that killing even ONE truly innocent person is unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. Imagine if you had a family member that you knew was innocent yet sentenced to death. How would it make you feel knowing that the justice system has killed your innocent family member? Now if we somehow manage to correctly convict 100% of those people that DO deserve death, then I'm all for it. As a matter of fact, I'm all for killing them in as close to the same manner that they killed their victims if they're convicted with 100% certainty.

    The problem we have with our justice system is that it's run by man, and man by nature is flawed (not man the gender, but man the species--sorry ladies ). Sometimes you will get convictions because a police officer is trying to get the case closed, a city is trying to show its citizens that justice has prevailed. There are a lot of reasons that we get false convictions. The sad part is when someone knows that a person is innocent and has no problem letting that person die.

    My last point is how each side of the aisle views the death penalty. I find it kind of curious how many of the pro-choice people are anti death penalty and how the pro-life people are pro-death penalty. I can understand the pro-choice people claiming that life doesn't begin until birth (not sure I buy the whole, "there's a heartbeat thus there's life" argument, myself), thus they can insist it's different. What tends to puzzle me more are the pro-life people that want to claim it's a moral issue yet putting someone to death, there's no moral boundary being overstepped there. I'm not exactly sure how they can reconcile it as much as the pro-choice/anti-death penalty group. Then again, I don't know how they can reconcile a lot of what they stand for.
    palandri and Fairclough like this.
    01-18-2014 11:33 AM
  2. msndrstood's Avatar
    I am for the death penalty in certain cases, the one in question was especially heinous and he confessed.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    01-18-2014 12:47 PM
  3. anon8126715's Avatar
    I am for the death penalty in certain cases, the one in question was especially heinous and he confessed.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    The only problem with that is I've heard of some cases where the suspect was isolated, starved of water and food, and deprived of his basic civil rights because they were trying to get a confession out of him. Under those conditions, you could probably get a confession out of just about anyone. But I agree that under certain iron-clad evidence, I have no problem with someone that has no regard for human life to have theirs terminated.

    If prison life was stripped down to what it should be (and prisoners were forced to work hard enough to pay for the cost of their incarceration and their debt to society), meaning no TV, no recreation, and only the most basics of food, shelter, and water, then I would have no problem with the most wretched of our society languishing in prison for the rest of their pathetic lives.
    msndrstood likes this.
    01-18-2014 01:38 PM
  4. Martin Disch's Avatar
    Sharia was the furthest thing from my mind.

    >>> Sent from Hotlanta
    That's what I wanted to point out. I find the similarities concerning though.

    Posted via Android Central App
    01-18-2014 02:27 PM
  5. llamabreath's Avatar
    That's what I wanted to point out. I find the similarities concerning though.

    Posted via Android Central App
    I understand completely, and there's a lot more to Sharia that I would agree with you is to be concerned about.




    >>> Sent from Hotlanta
    01-18-2014 02:56 PM
  6. anon8126715's Avatar
    I understand completely, and there's a lot more to Sharia that I would agree with you is to be concerned about.


    >>> Sent from Hotlanta

    I am concerned about your concern for his concerning....
    01-18-2014 03:23 PM
  7. llamabreath's Avatar
    I am concerned about your concern for his concerning....
    I don't know if that's disconcerting or not.




    >>> Sent from Hotlanta
    01-18-2014 03:31 PM
  8. Tall Mike 2145's Avatar
    I don't really buy into the argument that any penalty is a serious deterrent for heinous crime. Such things are typically committed in hot blood or by people who are mentally disturbed. Do you honestly believe a psychopath, a sociopath, etc., are going to be frightened?

    That being said, as far as I'm concerned, if we can't treat those people before they get into situations like that (or institutionalize them if treatment wouldn't be effective) then I have no problem whatsoever with removing them from the planet. Once due process and full due diligence have been exercised, then I say they should be executed by the most horrific means possible.
    01-19-2014 12:02 AM
  9. Scott7217's Avatar
    I for one isn't for the eye for eye policy. If you do have to do it, least make it quick and half dignified.
    It's interesting to read the punishment for the first murderer in history:

    - The murderer was marked to warn others.
    - If anyone harmed the murderer, they would also be harmed, and the damage would be much greater.
    - The murderer was banned from working in the agricultural industry.
    - The murderer was banished and forced to wander restlessly.

    Genesis 4:11-16 New International Version (NIV)
    01-19-2014 03:00 AM
  10. llamabreath's Avatar
    It's interesting to read the punishment for the first murderer in history:

    - The murderer was marked to warn others.
    - If anyone harmed the murderer, they would also be harmed, and the damage would be much greater.
    - The murderer was banned from working in the agricultural industry.
    - The murderer was banished and forced to wander restlessly.

    Genesis 4:11-16 New International Version (NIV)
    We all know that isolation and marking wouldn't make any iota of an impact on someone in today's world. Criminals today have no fear, no conscience. Conscience is the only thing that isolation and marking would address.




    >>> Sent from Hotlanta
    01-19-2014 04:36 AM
  11. Aquila's Avatar
    Murder predates society.... ergo, there was no society, industry to banish or ban the murderer from, or even a word for it when the first murder occurred. Also, agree with Hotlanta. Most degenerates would wear it as a badge of honor... in fact, they do. Many prisoners have tattoos on their arms and even faces indicating how many people they've murdered. They're proud of their psychosis, not ashamed.

    Aside from that, the main sentiment of this thread is deeply disturbing. The death penalty, and justice in general, are not about "punishment", and if they are, we're doing something wrong. When we remove someone from society, whether it be by cell or grave, it should be in the spirit of protecting those their being removed from, not vengeance. I definitely understand the hurt and rage that come along with senseless crime and violence, but us sinking to or even below their level is MUCH worse. Our current system goes way to far in "punishing" small, stupid stuff and doesn't go anywhere near far enough in protecting society from the worst among us. The priority cannot be punishment or deterrence or anything stupid like that. A society based on rule of law is also based on the principles that justice is blind, reasonable and without ego. We fail at that every day, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to get it right.

    I'm not saying don't protect society, nor don't kill people who have shown no ability to exist within it. I personally think every ******, most child molesters and people who steal more than say, $1 million dollars (to throw out a number, I'm not attached to the figure) should be added to the list of those eligible for the sentence. Also, if you think about it, a life sentence and a death sentence are the same thing, save for the definition of the duration.... there's no reason to have two different sentences. That person isn't coming out of prison, period. Why are we stalling?

    But if we lose sight of the REASON for laws and a criminal justice system, then it'd be much more efficient for us to just handle everything ourselves without the bureaucracy, such as the way we did before laws. While the emotions attached to justice are understandable, we need to be above acting on the emotions and focus on the goal: a more secure and free society for those that do no harm to others.
    01-19-2014 05:43 AM
  12. msndrstood's Avatar
    I make no excuses for my opinion in THIS particular case. Vengeance? Yes it is. It's a visceral thing for me. In other cases where the facts are ambiguous, no DNA confirmation, no confession then benefit of doubt steps in and an appropriate length of incarceration is called for.

    This particular case we are discussing is cut and dried. Read my description of the way she died again. That is why I feel the way I do. Sorry if that offends anyone.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    Live2ride883 and Scott7217 like this.
    01-19-2014 09:22 AM
  13. gamefreak715's Avatar
    Any punishment we inflict on him will pale in comparison to the afterlife he faces. Nothing can beat the justice of hell. Take solace in that.

    Posted via Android Central App
    01-19-2014 01:21 PM
  14. anon8126715's Avatar
    I make no excuses for my opinion in THIS particular case. Vengeance? Yes it is. It's a visceral thing for me. In other cases where the facts are ambiguous, no DNA confirmation, no confession then benefit of doubt steps in and an appropriate length of incarceration is called for.

    This particular case we are discussing is cut and dried. Read my description of the way she died again. That is why I feel the way I do. Sorry if that offends anyone.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    You did touch on something earlier. You stated that whatever punishment is given to the suspect, that it wouldn't bring back your loved one. That's typically the sentiment that most victims' family members carry with them. Many also claim that they didn't feel the closure they thought they would, and even more regretted going to the execution of their loved one's murderer. I can understand being overwhelmed with emotion, but ultimately there's nothing we can do to replace the loss of our loved ones. Trying to replace that loss by taking another life, that doesn't seem to reconcile for me.
    01-19-2014 01:45 PM
  15. msndrstood's Avatar
    I can't get the thought-out of my head of what she had to be feeling in those last moments when she knew she was dying and her baby was thrashing inside of her dying too. It could have been my daughter. I can't get past that. I'm sorry, I just can't.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    01-19-2014 03:46 PM
  16. anon8126715's Avatar
    I definitely understand. That piece of garbage Castro that abducted those women in Ohio, I personally think he should be tortured relentlessly, or the monster that abducted Elizabeth Smart, I think he should be tortured as well. I find male violence against women and children to be the most enraging. What I've found about punishment (especially when dealing with children) is that you never dish it out while you're emotionally charged.
    01-19-2014 04:10 PM
  17. Scott7217's Avatar
    I make no excuses for my opinion in THIS particular case. Vengeance? Yes it is. It's a visceral thing for me.
    It's your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it. I find it interesting that you acknowledge what you feel as vengeance, but then again, it is an accurate word for that. Would you agree that kindness is only for those who deserve it? Also, would you agree that man can behave like an animal sometimes and may be, in fact, the most vicious animal of all due to his intellect?
    01-19-2014 05:17 PM
  18. msndrstood's Avatar
    It's your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it. I find it interesting that you acknowledge what you feel as vengeance, but then again, it is an accurate word for that. Would you agree that kindness is only for those who deserve it? Also, would you agree that man can behave like an animal sometimes and may be, in fact, the most vicious animal of all due to his intellect?
    I couldn't be kind to a deliberate conscious murderer, no. Does everyone deserve kindness, maybe. Your premise is too vague for a difinitive answer though, it depends on the circumstances.

    I've had a long 2 days, I'll think about this and post an addendum tomorrow.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    Scott7217 likes this.
    01-19-2014 09:59 PM
  19. Scott7217's Avatar
    We all know that isolation and marking wouldn't make any iota of an impact on someone in today's world. Criminals today have no fear, no conscience. Conscience is the only thing that isolation and marking would address.
    Would you say that the judge of the first murderer in history was soft on crime? Maybe the sentence was too light?
    01-22-2014 07:44 AM
  20. Scott7217's Avatar
    Texas still has both. Ky does too I believe. And like I said earlier, to me if you take someones rights in such a way you shouldn't have any. Hell, look at the military. ...
    I believe that modern methods of execution include electrocution, the firing squad, the gas chamber, hanging, and lethal injection. Which one do you believe is the best method?
    01-22-2014 07:51 AM
  21. newbroot83's Avatar
    I believe that modern methods of execution include electrocution, the firing squad, the gas chamber, hanging, and lethal injection. Which one do you believe is the best method?
    Its not a question of which is best. Out of those only 2 are actually used. I am just a firm believer that punishment should fit the crime. This guy got by easy.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
    01-22-2014 08:00 AM
  22. Scott7217's Avatar
    I am just a firm believer that punishment should fit the crime. This guy got by easy.
    Which method fits this crime the best, assuming that you don't want the criminal to get by easy? Is it electrocution, the firing squad, the gas chamber, hanging, or something else?
    01-22-2014 08:11 AM
  23. newbroot83's Avatar
    Which method fits this crime the best, assuming that you don't want the criminal to get by easy? Is it electrocution, the firing squad, the gas chamber, hanging, or something else?
    Electrocution and lethal injection are the only ones really used these days. To me, this guy tortured this woman and killed her child as well as her. He should be tortured. Then slit his throat and let him drown in his own blood as the woman did. Suffocation isnt pleasant. This poor woman did nothing to this man. That is why this crime is totally heinous. She was honestly just an innocent bystander.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
    01-22-2014 08:18 AM
  24. Scott7217's Avatar
    He should be tortured.
    Assuming you could choose any execution method, past or present, what would you choose for this criminal?
    01-22-2014 08:28 AM
  25. newbroot83's Avatar
    Assuming you could choose any execution method, past or present, what would you choose for this criminal?
    The rack, iron maiden, or keel hauling. But this is precisely why I am not a judge or any of the like. I am too black and whit

    Sent from my NB09 using Tapatalk
    01-22-2014 08:30 AM
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