12-12-2014 08:04 AM
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  1. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    So you don't accept the possibility that workers understand what they want and that it differs from what the UAW could provide?
    No, I said the UAW failed on the communications front. Even with all garbage the right wing was pushing out about how "evil" unions were, the UAW should have been able to overcome the right wing garbage with the truth. The UAW should have been able to convince the workers to at least give it a try and if they didn't like it, they could just as easily vote it out. That's where the UAW failed.
    I think in this case Palandri you failed to address what Mooncatt said, or at least didn't address it in a "direct" manner. I get what he's saying, and it's a definite possibility.

    It's possible that the UAW communicated exactly what they wanted to communicate in a perfect way, and the workers just didn't like it.
    03-21-2014 03:01 AM
  2. oz123's Avatar

    It's possible that the UAW communicated exactly what they wanted to communicate in a perfect way, and the workers just didn't like it.
    This may well be the case, but there was definitely more at play here. The outrageous behavior of politicians threatening workers with making the wrong choice, is beyond belief.

    msndrstood and palandri like this.
    03-21-2014 03:34 AM
  3. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    This may well be the case, but there was definitely more at play here. The outrageous behavior of politicians, threatening workers with making the wrong choice is beyond belief.

    http:// http://youtu.be/B_re6bKvLNI
    There's always more at play. From every possible angle.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    03-21-2014 03:35 AM
  4. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Delete post
    03-21-2014 06:42 AM
  5. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    The term "right to work" was brought to you by the same people that came up with the phrase, "Patriot Act", "Death Tax", "Advanced Interrogation", and other phrases that have been tweaked to hide their real meaning. I've heard many people refer to it as the "right to get fired" law. I'm willing to bet that most of the states in that map that are right to work are also near the bottom in education, medically covered, and poverty, and it's no coincidence.

    While I've seen some of the worst unions have to offer (I once knew a guy that assaulted his supervisor, sat in his car after he was fired, possibly contemplating violence, and then being rehired), I can walk into most Walmart stores and see the worst a union-less corporate America has to offer. I honestly believe there is some equilibrium that can be reached, but that equilibrium may take some sort of unionization of some type.....
    Kinda like the Affordable healthcare act? Dem or rep, they are only in it for the party. Not us.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    plumbrich likes this.
    03-21-2014 06:48 AM
  6. palandri's Avatar
    I think in this case Palandri you failed to address what Mooncatt said, or at least didn't address it in a "direct" manner. I get what he's saying, and it's a definite possibility.

    It's possible that the UAW communicated exactly what they wanted to communicate in a perfect way, and the workers just didn't like it.
    You're correct, I didn't answer it directly, but I certainly can and the answer is No.. You probably won't agree with what I am about to say, but I'll explain it the best I can. Lets reference back to this post of mine: http://forums.androidcentral.com/pol...ml#post3518221

    I've salted (there's a new term for you) enough nonunion shops to clearly see the UAW failed on the communications front. Now I am not trying to be arrogant, but here's how confident I am in that statement. I can say with 100% certainty (based on my previous record) that I could have convinced the workers to at least try it.
    Now let me be more specific and trust me, I could write 12 pages on this, but I'll keep it as short as possible. What we're dealing with here is a persons livelihood. People want the means of securing the best in life for themselves and their family. Now is that statement true or false? If your boss offered you better pay and benefits would you say no, I am not worthy? Would anyone really want the antithesis of that? This is where communications is so critical and important. This is where communicating the truth is so important. There's no spuriousness in the statistic that union workers make more money and have better benefits than nonunion workers. Now how was that countered by the right at the VW plant, they were saying look at what the UAW did in Detroit, not to mention all the other crap they threw out. Now, was it really the UAW that totally destroyed Detroit? Is it really that simple? No, it's not and that's what has to be communicated.

    Let me give you a fairly recent personal example. I wasn't organizing or salting at the time. I was working at a new condo building in Chicago and as I was leaving I ran into a couple of Comcast guys walking into the building. I approached them and said, I read in the IBEW journal that you guys have a vote coming up to join the IBEW, you guys are voting for the union, right? They both said, I don't know. I said, why? and he responded, benefits are extremely important to me and he went on about some family issues and ended it with, Comcast said the IBEW would eliminate all the Comcast benefits. So now he thinks he won't have any healthcare or pension or retirement benefits if he joins the union. I immediately told him No, that's not the whole truth. I went on to explain that by joining the union he'll have union negotiated benefits that will be better than his Comcast benefits and went into specifics about my benefit package. I called the IBEW union that was organizing these Comcast guys and told them exactly what these Comcast guys said, and they immediately knew they had to do a better job on the communications front.
    ffejjj likes this.
    03-21-2014 10:36 AM
  7. xchange's Avatar
    Strikes are bad for my liver. Last one I went through was a lot of fun hanging out and bonding with my coworkers with some pints, but damn it I lost so many beer mugs when they fell off the tp ledge in the port-o-john into the toilet!

    Strikes are also a great way to tap that coworker you're in to after a few. God bless unions
    03-24-2014 06:32 PM
  8. Paul627g's Avatar

    Strikes are also a great way to tap that coworker you're in to after a few. God bless unions
    A comment like that today in the work place, any work place (union /non union) could get you fired immediately.

    Paul, Moderator Team Leader.
    03-24-2014 08:56 PM
  9. xchange's Avatar
    A comment like that today in the work place, any work place (union /non union) could get you fired immediately.

    Paul, Moderator Team Leader.
    I'm not making the comment at work, unless you intended that as a general piece of advice? Am I in violation of a forum rule? Just asking because I'm not sure if that was a reprimand. Awaiting further direction from AC staff. Thanks in advance
    03-24-2014 09:30 PM
  10. Aquila's Avatar
    I'm not making the comment at work, unless you intended that as a general piece of advice? Am I in violation of a forum rule? Just asking because I'm not sure if that was a reprimand. Awaiting further direction from AC staff. Thanks in advance
    My interpretation of it is that it is a general comment about the comment, not a moderation comment about the comment, if that makes sense. In my opinion, that could turn into an HR or other official rep's nightmare and in some jurisdictions the consumption of alcohol can be considered impaired judgement and unable to provide consent (even between two married (to each other) adults). Thus, depending on point of view, the comment is referencing something that can be construed on the spectrum between an innocuous good time and a sexual harassment or possible sexual assault scenario. Hence, many employers would wash their hands of it immediately.
    Johnly and Paul627g like this.
    03-24-2014 09:55 PM
  11. Paul627g's Avatar
    I'm not making the comment at work, unless you intended that as a general piece of advice? Am I in violation of a forum rule? Just asking because I'm not sure if that was a reprimand. Awaiting further direction from AC staff. Thanks in advance
    That was a general comment and was not done with a Moderator tone.

    But since you seem to be confused as to the comment taking a moderator tone or breaking forum rules is there something your feeling guilty about? Something you'd wish to discuss privately?
    Kevin OQuinn likes this.
    03-24-2014 10:51 PM
  12. xchange's Avatar
    is there something your feeling guilty about? Something you'd wish to discuss privately?
    Well .... I did go a little over the speed limit on my way home last night...
    A895 likes this.
    03-25-2014 07:07 AM
  13. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Volkswagen Chattanooga Update:
    Hearing with the NLRB is on the 21st. 24 people have been subpoenaed to be at the meeting including Gov. Haslam and the leader of practically every antiunion organization in that part of the country. Haslam and several others claim they will not comply with the subpoena.

    Documents leaked that stated VW was offered 300 million in incentives to expand dependent on the outcome of the UAW vote.

    VW workers filed lawsuit against VW and the UAW for working together and not allowing equal opportunity for those against the union to campaign.


    Long story short, its a massive cluster. It will be interesting to watch how the NLRB hearing goes.
    palandri likes this.
    04-16-2014 08:59 AM
  14. palandri's Avatar
    Volkswagen Chattanooga Update:
    Hearing with the NLRB is on the 21st. 24 people have been subpoenaed to be at the meeting including Gov. Haslam and the leader of practically every antiunion organization in that part of the country. Haslam and several others claim they will not comply with the subpoena.

    Documents leaked that stated VW was offered 300 million in incentives to expand dependent on the outcome of the UAW vote.

    VW workers filed lawsuit against VW and the UAW for working together and not allowing equal opportunity for those against the union to campaign.


    Long story short, its a massive cluster. It will be interesting to watch how the NLRB hearing goes.
    Thanks for the update.

    Did the Governor state why he wouldn't comply with the subpoena?

    That leaked document is as close to extortion as one can get.
    04-16-2014 09:33 AM
  15. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Thanks for the update.

    Did the Governor state why he wouldn't comply with the subpoena?

    That leaked document is as close to extortion as one can get.
    Stated something like "legal reasons". Others are stating that it is an attempt at fishing and public humiliation.

    It's is, but that is between the state of TN and vw. The works did not know of it at the time of the vote, so it has no relevance to this hearing past possibly showing intent.
    04-16-2014 09:43 AM
  16. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    It would be pretty good if everything went ok there for everyone. Tennessee not having a state income tax helps people out. I wish my state would follow suit.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    04-16-2014 10:06 AM
  17. palandri's Avatar
    Stated something like "legal reasons". Others are stating that it is an attempt at fishing and public humiliation.

    It's is, but that is between the state of TN and vw. The works did not know of it at the time of the vote, so it has no relevance to this hearing past possibly showing intent.
    LOL! I suppose the Governor doesn't want to look like Lois Lerner and take the 5th.

    The workers knew about a possible stop to expansion if there was a Yes vote. We talked about it in this thread before the vote because the issues was raised.
    04-16-2014 10:23 AM
  18. NoYankees44's Avatar
    LOL! I suppose the Governor doesn't want to look like Lois Lerner and take the 5th.

    The workers knew about a possible stop to expansion if there was a Yes vote. We talked about it in this thread before the vote because the issues was raised.
    Right, but this does not add to what they knew at the time and thus did not affect he vote.

    It's interesting how everyone is up in arms about politicians threatening to block incentives for expansion if they vote yes, but no one cares about the leader of the vw European Union threatening to directly block expansion if they don't unionize. A bias me thinks...
    04-16-2014 11:57 AM
  19. jonnaver's Avatar
    Hey private sector peeps, I've been off with pay from July to Sept with pay 😁
    Commence hate now
    08-17-2014 03:40 PM
  20. anon8126715's Avatar
    On a day set aside for celebrating the working class in America, I'm taking it one step further by celebrating the unions that have fought to improve the working class conditions in the workplace AND their living conditions. Regardless of all the bad press given to Unions, we wouldn't be where we are as a nation if not for the contribution of Unions.
    09-01-2014 03:02 PM
  21. Mooncatt's Avatar
    On a day set aside for celebrating the working class in America, I'm taking it one step further by celebrating the unions that have fought to improve the working class conditions in the workplace AND their living conditions. Regardless of all the bad press given to Unions, we wouldn't be where we are as a nation if not for the contribution of Unions.
    I will agree with you to the extent that the old unions helped make working conditions better. The unions of today, not so much. If we still heard about unions making big changes, then maybe I'd consider them more. The problem is, they aren't really doing much. The only stories you hear about them are when they are fighting over money, have questionable political practices, protecting the lazy workers, etc. Not to mention big government is so far down the throats of business that there really isn't much more unions could do in that regard anyway.
    09-01-2014 03:17 PM
  22. anon8126715's Avatar
    I will agree with you to the extent that the old unions helped make working conditions better. The unions of today, not so much. If we still heard about unions making big changes, then maybe I'd consider them more. The problem is, they aren't really doing much. The only stories you hear about them are when they are fighting over money, have questionable political practices, protecting the lazy workers, etc. Not to mention big government is so far down the throats of business that there really isn't much more unions could do in that regard anyway.
    If anything, they help increase wages, which increases the middle class's standard of living, which increases demand while keeping higher management's pay in check.

    And the reason you hear those stories is by design. Negative press makes it easier to villainize them.
    09-01-2014 03:42 PM
  23. Mooncatt's Avatar
    If anything, they help increase wages, which increases the middle class's standard of living, which increases demand while keeping higher management's pay in check.

    And the reason you hear those stories is by design. Negative press makes it easier to villainize them.
    And with artificial higher wage increases comes higher prices, more over seas outsourcing and automation to replace the worker. So that's a debate that could be had even without unions. Just look at the minimum wage issue.

    If you think those stories are by design (though I've heard enough feedback from those that have been in unions to know that way too many problems do exist), then why aren't the unions getting with the media to promote the good they do? After all, the major unions lean liberal and most of the media does too, so it should be easy for them to get some air time to explain the other good things they've done that could not have been accomplished otherwise.

    Perhaps you could point to something that was a major union accomplishment recently? Something on the scale of the 5 day standard work week, for example.
    09-01-2014 04:40 PM
  24. anon8126715's Avatar
    And with artificial higher wage increases comes higher prices, more over seas outsourcing and automation to replace the worker. So that's a debate that could be had even without unions. Just look at the minimum wage issue.

    If you think those stories are by design (though I've heard enough feedback from those that have been in unions to know that way too many problems do exist), then why aren't the unions getting with the media to promote the good they do? After all, the major unions lean liberal and most of the media does too, so it should be easy for them to get some air time to explain the other good things they've done that could not have been accomplished otherwise.

    Perhaps you could point to something that was a major union accomplishment recently? Something on the scale of the 5 day standard work week, for example.
    In order for me to point to a major union accomplishment recently would mean that I'd have to undo all the negative campaigning that has been done to unions in the last 50 years that ultimately rendered them ineffective. You just don't get it do you? The negative campaign smear is part of the plan to get people to vote against their best interest. If you can't open your eyes to it then there's no way for me to explain it in terms that you'd understand.

    As far as "Artificial higher wages", that so called "artificial higher wage" didn't seem to bother us when the U.S. economy was at its strongest (the same time unions were at their strongest, btw feel free to look it up).

    I'm sure the media loves reporting on stories that point to union members making more money than their counter parts. I mean the media isn't ultimately comprised of workers right? So why not just become an entity of propaganda for unions right? It's not like they have a workforce of their own that would benefit from unionization right? While we're at it, lets get McDonalds to start advertising about the benefits of eating foods that aren't processed all to hell, or lets get Walmart to start talking about products made in the U.S. being superior to those made in China, again.

    It never ceases to amaze me when someone can be manipulated into being against the middle working class of this country. This is exactly why our country is in the state it's in.
    palandri likes this.
    09-01-2014 05:29 PM
  25. Timelessblur's Avatar
    I will agree with you to the extent that the old unions helped make working conditions better. The unions of today, not so much. If we still heard about unions making big changes, then maybe I'd consider them more. The problem is, they aren't really doing much. The only stories you hear about them are when they are fighting over money, have questionable political practices, protecting the lazy workers, etc. Not to mention big government is so far down the throats of business that there really isn't much more unions could do in that regard anyway.
    I say it is a 2 way street. Companies used to care about their employees. Now they will let any of them go if it means 1 extra buck of profit. Or they do illegal agreements to suppresses wages like a lot of the big tech companies did and are still got off easy.


    Stop shifting worker over seas. Top executives need to start getting more reasonable wages and heck need to take a massive pay cut. Part of the reason they are look so down on and the sob stories from them are worthless is their pay has sky rocketed and everyone else's not so much. Us executives pay is out of line with other develop nations.

    Sadly I say unions should of started targeting off shoring and made that part of all their demand. Aka no off shoring and reduction of reliance on off shore work.

    Also they should of demanded board members and votes there.



    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    09-01-2014 10:24 PM
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