02-16-2014 07:38 AM
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  1. anon8126715's Avatar
    Its called personal responsibility. Look it up. Why does everyone look toward the government for everything?

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    So lets take that attitude and apply it across the board. Public roads you say? Lets go ahead and tear them down. If you need to get somewhere, buy yourself an off road vehicle, personal responsibility, take care of it yourself. Police and Fire, the hell with it, personal responsibility, if someone's trying to rob you of your wealth, hire your own security team. You say your house is on fire? Looks like you could use a fire hose, or maybe you just need a dose of personal responsibility. What's that, the tap water in your home looks like raw sewage? Personal responsibility, buy yourself a system to clean your own water.

    When someone attempts to argue from a macho bravado or moral high ground perspective when it comes to women's health issues only makes that man look that much more ignorant on the subject of women's health.

    I found a nice video of what most right wing guys sound like on the topic of Women's health issues. I swear this series needs to be remade with ANY Tea Party Republican reprising the role of Archie Bunker.

    msndrstood likes this.
    02-15-2014 01:01 PM
  2. Mooncatt's Avatar
    So lets take that attitude and apply it across the board. Public roads you say? Lets go ahead and tear them down. If you need to get somewhere, buy yourself an off road vehicle, personal responsibility, take care of it yourself. Police and Fire, the hell with it, personal responsibility, if someone's trying to rob you of your wealth, hire your own security team. You say your house is on fire? Looks like you could use a fire hose, or maybe you just need a dose of personal responsibility. What's that, the tap water in your home looks like raw sewage? Personal responsibility, buy yourself a system to clean your own water.
    Contraception is something anyone can easily buy in a number of forms if they want it. All the items you just listed are needed available at all times, and impractical/impossible for people to take care of individually.
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    02-15-2014 01:34 PM
  3. _Zguy__'s Avatar
    Contraception is something anyone can easily buy in a number of forms if they want it. All the items you just listed are needed available at all times, and impractical/impossible for people to take care of individually.
    If its so easy to get than why is it an issue to have it covered like every other medication
    msndrstood and nolittdroid like this.
    02-15-2014 01:56 PM
  4. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    If its so easy to get than why is it an issue to have it covered like every other medication
    Because if people can get other people to pay for something, they will do it.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    02-15-2014 01:58 PM
  5. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Because if people can get other people to pay for something, they will do it.
    Pretty much. I guess expecting two people to come up with enough money between them to buy a pack of condoms is just too much to ask.
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    02-15-2014 02:06 PM
  6. msndrstood's Avatar
    If all guys were to exert the same energy into birth control (condoms) as they do trying to get a woman in bed, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    nolittdroid likes this.
    02-15-2014 02:16 PM
  7. _Zguy__'s Avatar
    Pretty much. I guess expecting two people to come up with enough money between them to buy a pack of condoms is just too much to ask.
    First off they are on public assistance to begin with for a reason. These people aren't the most intelligent, responsible or best decision makers. It should be obvious that these people even if they are using condoms aren't having much luck with them or are deciding to go without them so the public can pay for the kid.
    02-15-2014 02:19 PM
  8. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    If all guys were to exert the same energy into birth control (condoms) as they do trying to get a woman in bed, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    Like women don't do the same. The woman has the option to not get in bed.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    02-15-2014 02:19 PM
  9. _Zguy__'s Avatar
    If all guys were to exert the same energy into birth control (condoms) as they do trying to get a woman in bed, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    The reliability of condoms used improperly is very poor and that ignores all the women who use birth control as medication
    02-15-2014 02:21 PM
  10. msndrstood's Avatar
    Like women don't do the same. The woman has the option to not get in bed.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    Then she should be on continuous birth control. The guy should ask and then take precautions no matter what the answer is, he's the ultimate inseminator.

    I would think the right would encourage birth control no matter what to prevent abortions and I will never understand the reason they don't. (Skip the free birth control thing, we know how the right feels about 'personal responsibility' ad nauseum).

    Unless it's just about control, well then...

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    02-15-2014 02:25 PM
  11. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Then she should be on continuous birth control. The guy should ask and then take precautions no matter what the answer is, he's the ultimate inseminator.

    I would think the right would encourage birth control no matter what to prevent abortions and I will never understand the reason they don't. (Skip the free birth control thing, we know how the right feels about 'personal responsibility' ad nauseum).

    Unless it's just about control, well then...

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    Birth control isn't 100 percent either.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    02-15-2014 02:28 PM
  12. Mooncatt's Avatar
    First off they are on public assistance to begin with for a reason.
    This has nothing to do with public assistance. It's about covering BC medication under all insurance plans.
    02-15-2014 02:28 PM
  13. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Then she should be on continuous birth control. The guy should ask and then take precautions no matter what the answer is, he's the ultimate inseminator.

    I would think the right would encourage birth control no matter what to prevent abortions and I will never understand the reason they don't. (Skip the free birth control thing, we know how the right feels about 'personal responsibility' ad nauseum).

    Unless it's just about control, well then...

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    And birth control is encouraged, we're just talking about being personally responsible for paying for your own.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    02-15-2014 02:29 PM
  14. msndrstood's Avatar
    Birth control isn't 100 percent either.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    Birth control pills and condoms used together are 99.9% effective for preventing pregnancy.

    See? Personal responsibility for all!

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    nolittdroid likes this.
    02-15-2014 02:31 PM
  15. _Zguy__'s Avatar
    This has nothing to do with public assistance. It's about covering BC medication under all insurance plans.
    My fault i lacked explanation there, your going to pay one way or another. Either I pay 5 cents more for insurance covering universal birth control or I'm paying for welfare children because the mom didnt get coverage
    02-15-2014 02:37 PM
  16. msndrstood's Avatar
    And birth control is encouraged, we're just talking about being personally responsible for paying for your own.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    Again, you don't want abortions but want to make birth control difficult to afford for low income women. Because women with money won't have that problem because they just don't have to worry about paying for their protection. And again, then all men should use condoms.

    Here we go 'round in circles.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    nolittdroid likes this.
    02-15-2014 02:48 PM
  17. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Again, you don't want abortions but want to make birth control difficult to afford for low income women. Because women with money won't have that problem because they just don't have to worry about paying for their protection. And again, then all men should use condoms.

    Here we go 'round in circles.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    While we're at it, let's dig into their finances and see if they smoke or drink. Because obviously if I can afford to do those things then they can afford their own birth control.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    02-15-2014 02:52 PM
  18. _Zguy__'s Avatar
    And birth control is encouraged, we're just talking about being personally responsible for paying for your own.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    The whole idea of insurance is to pay for medical services you need, for half the population birth control is one of those things at some point in their lives
    02-15-2014 02:53 PM
  19. msndrstood's Avatar
    While we're at it, let's dig into their finances and see if they smoke or drink. Because obviously if I can afford to do those things then they can afford their own birth control.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    Going all communist are we, investigating personal habits? Last I checked, smoking and drinking doesn't prevent unwanted pregnancy. How about just letting them all get pregnant and have welfare babies or an abortion. Just what is it that you guys want? You can't have it all.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    nolittdroid likes this.
    02-15-2014 02:56 PM
  20. _Zguy__'s Avatar
    While we're at it, let's dig into their finances and see if they smoke or drink. Because obviously if I can afford to do those things then they can afford their own birth control.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    If you do those things you can pay for all other prescriptions too right?
    02-15-2014 02:58 PM
  21. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    If you do those things you can pay for all other prescriptions too right?
    Sure. My point is , people will throw money away on stuff like that and then claim they can't afford the other stuff that they really need.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    02-15-2014 03:11 PM
  22. _Zguy__'s Avatar
    Sure. My point is , people will throw money away on stuff like that and then claim they can't afford the other stuff that they really need.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    So its not an issue with birth control but with the whole insurance/welfare mess
    02-15-2014 03:15 PM
  23. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    So its not an issue with birth control but with the whole insurance/welfare mess
    Granted there are people that truly need help. But the system is very flawed and creates and atmosphere conducive for misuse. For instance, in the grocery store a few days ago there was a guy that bought approximately 200 dollars worth of groceries with his e.b.t card. After he paid for that, he paid for 2 cases of beer and a carton of cigarettes with cash. I see things like this all the time.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    02-15-2014 03:25 PM
  24. _Zguy__'s Avatar
    Granted there are people that truly need help. But the system is very flawed and creates and atmosphere conducive for misuse. For instance, in the grocery store a few days ago there was a guy that bought approximately 200 dollars worth of groceries with his e.b.t card. After he paid for that, he paid for 2 cases of beer and a carton of cigarettes with cash. I see things like this all the time.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    Yeah I understand how bad the system is but thats a much more difficult argument.
    02-15-2014 03:28 PM
  25. Mooncatt's Avatar
    The whole idea of insurance is to pay for medical services you need, for half the population birth control is one of those things at some point in their lives
    Not quite. You need gas to run your car, but you don't charge it to your car insurance, do you? Insurance is supposed to be (and under our current situations, that term is being used loosely) for covering major things that are unforeseen and hope don't happen. It's like a gamble of sorts, where you are saying I think X could happen to me, will you pay for it? The insurance company says there's a Y% that it won't happen, but if you pay us enough, we will. That's how shared risk comes into play to fund the payouts.

    Birth control isn't a risk, it's a known expense when used as such. Off label uses excluded for this point. So perhaps if women want birth control, then the insurance companies should just make the premium for whatever without BC, then attach a revenue neutral amount equal to the cost of the BC?

    For the off label, non-contraceptive uses, allow the doctor writing it up to note it's for non-contraceptive use related to a specific medical issue, and that would be covered under regular insurance like other meds. I'm not saying the doctor has to list the specific reason, just a blanket non-BC usage code for entering into the computer systems for insurance. It may not be perfect, but I'm trying to think of a way to separate the two uses so that it's more fair to the insured and their premiums.

    I think we've beat the dead horse long enough on the issue, so perhaps some others here would like to discuss alternatives more?
    02-15-2014 03:53 PM
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