02-16-2014 07:38 AM
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  1. _Zguy__'s Avatar
    Not quite. You need gas to run your car, but you don't charge it to your car insurance, do you? Insurance is supposed to be (and under our current situations, that term is being used loosely) for covering major things that are unforeseen and hope don't happen. It's like a gamble of sorts, where you are saying I think X could happen to me, will you pay for it? The insurance company says there's a Y% that it won't happen, but if you pay us enough, we will. That's how shared risk comes into play to fund the payouts.

    Birth control isn't a risk, it's a known expense when used as such. Off label uses excluded for this point. So perhaps if women want birth control, then the insurance companies should just make the premium for whatever without BC, then attach a revenue neutral amount equal to the cost of the BC?

    For the off label, non-contraceptive uses, allow the doctor writing it up to note it's for non-contraceptive use related to a specific medical issue, and that would be covered under regular insurance like other meds. I'm not saying the doctor has to list the specific reason, just a blanket non-BC usage code for entering into the computer systems for insurance. It may not be perfect, but I'm trying to think of a way to separate the two uses so that it's more fair to the insured and their premiums.

    I think we've beat the dead horse long enough on the issue, so perhaps some others here would like to discuss alternatives more?
    Major unforseen things you hope dont happen, sounds like a child for many people.

    Car insurance is way different than health insurance

    Are any prescriptions and doctors appointments a risk, no, but thats why you buy health insurance to help pay for them. Birth control is no different from others.

    And your sepreate system is totally flawed as every woman who wanted the birth control and is on a plan where they can easily and affordably schedule a doctors visit will get the medical use for some reason or another.
    02-15-2014 04:07 PM
  2. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Ive got an iPhone with internet, satellite/cable TV, car payment, carton of cigarettes, internet, and a flat screen TV, but it cant afford condoms.
    Condoms have been free at certain places for years and still no one used them. http://m.sodahead.com/united-states/...stion-4174217/
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    02-15-2014 04:24 PM
  3. anon8126715's Avatar
    Contraception is something anyone can easily buy in a number of forms if they want it. All the items you just listed are needed available at all times, and impractical/impossible for people to take care of individually.
    Like I said, some people think it's all about rubbers and recreational sex. Please go research Endometriosis, Mittelschmerz, and other ovulation symptoms that are treated with birth control before you make any other assumptions.

    I'm a man and am damn fortunate that I don't have to deal with what it means to be a woman. That being said, I sure wish some of my male counter parts would stop dragging their knuckles and realize that it's not always about only what they experience. I believe the phrase is egocentric.
    nolittdroid and msndrstood like this.
    02-15-2014 04:38 PM
  4. anon8126715's Avatar
    Ive got an iPhone with internet, satellite/cable TV, car payment, carton of cigarettes, internet, and a flat screen TV, but it cant afford condoms.
    Condoms have been free at certain places for years and still no one used them. SodaHead - How can a woman who can't afford her own birth control afford to pay a $1,740 filing fee to run for Congress?
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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    02-15-2014 04:40 PM
  5. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Major unforseen things you hope dont happen, sounds like a child for many people.
    Fine, call it preventative maintenance.

    Car insurance is way different than health insurance
    Agreed, but the purpose of each is similar. It's for major problems/accidents/etc you can't afford or prevent. It's pretty easy to avoid having a kid, even without using BC.

    Are any prescriptions and doctors appointments a risk, no, but thats why you buy health insurance to help pay for them. Birth control is no different from others.
    You're misplacing the risk as was presented, but I will go ahead and say doctors and meds are a risk in the sense of misdiagnosis, side effects, etc. Birth control as contraceptive to mitigate the risk of having a kid is due to lifestyle choices. Catching a cold isn't.

    On the other side, people that drink and smoke are also making lifestyle choices that result in higher premIums. Since contraceptive is due to lifestyle choices too, then it's at least only fair that their premiums be higher as a result.

    And your sepreate system is totally flawed as every woman who wanted the birth control and is on a plan where they can easily and affordably schedule a doctors visit will get the medical use for some reason or another.
    You're assuming doctors are running rampant, knowingly giving out false prescriptions. There may be a few, but I doubt that would be the case in the vast majority of them. It would also require other steps to hide the lie, such as other insurance claims filed in relation to whatever medical condition was claimed. I.e. initial diagnosis and other ongoing care. The insurance companies could monitor for that.


    Like I said, some people think it's all about rubbers and recreational sex. Please go research Endometriosis, Mittelschmerz, and other ovulation symptoms that are treated with birth control before you make any other assumptions.
    I don't know if you read my post after the one you quoted, but I addressed this issue in it. If you have any other ideas, then let's hear it.
    02-15-2014 05:38 PM
  6. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Everyone doesn't look at the government for everything. Your thought process simply has an emphasis on "me", rather than "we". You believe in rugged individualism, each man on their own two feet, always looking out for number #1, sink or swim buddy, don't expect a helping hand from "me".
    That is actually completely false and has nothing to do with the discussion.

    The role the government should play is society is the debate. Just because someone believes entitlements should be cut back, does not mean they do not believe in helping each other. Actually, quite the opposite. I believe in citizens taking responsibility for those around them. I believe that I can do more good with my money then the government can by taking it away from me the then distributing it out through comity and burocracy (that take a cut of my money of course). I can personally see when someone is hurting. I can personally see when I am just giving a drunk a drink. The government has been proven not only be inefficient, but also to have a terrible time distinguishing when fraud is happening. So instead, I want to keep my own money so I can better help "we". It has little to do with selfishness or greed like you and many other liberals love to spew off like you are so much better than everyone that disagrees with you.
    02-15-2014 06:05 PM
  7. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    That is actually completely false and has nothing to do with the discussion.

    The role the government should play is society is the debate. Just because someone believes entitlements should be cut back, does not mean they do not believe in helping each other. Actually, quite the opposite. I believe in citizens taking responsibility for those around them. I believe that I can do more good with my money then the government can by taking it away from me the then distributing it out through comity and burocracy (that take a cut of my money of course). I can personally see when someone is hurting. I can personally see when I am just giving a drunk a drink. The government has been proven not only be inefficient, but also to have a terrible time distinguishing when fraud is happening. So instead, I want to keep my own money so I can better help "we". It has little to do with selfishness or greed like you and many other liberals love to spew off like you are so much better than everyone that disagrees with you.
    Bingo. This is exactly right. This is also why entitlement fraud continues. It's not the government's money really, it comes from John Q public. Other people care less about spending your money than you do.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    02-15-2014 06:13 PM
  8. _Zguy__'s Avatar
    Fine, call it preventative maintenance.



    Agreed, but the purpose of each is similar. It's for major problems/accidents/etc you can't afford or prevent. It's pretty easy to avoid having a kid, even without using BC.



    You're misplacing the risk as was presented, but I will go ahead and say doctors and meds are a risk in the sense of misdiagnosis, side effects, etc. Birth control as contraceptive to mitigate the risk of having a kid is due to lifestyle choices. Catching a cold isn't.

    On the other side, people that drink and smoke are also making lifestyle choices that result in higher premIums. Since contraceptive is due to lifestyle choices too, then it's at least only fair that their premiums be higher as a result.



    You're assuming doctors are running rampant, knowingly giving out false prescriptions. There may be a few, but I doubt that would be the case in the vast majority of them. It would also require other steps to hide the lie, such as other insurance claims filed in relation to whatever medical condition was claimed. I.e. initial diagnosis and other ongoing care. The insurance companies could monitor for that.




    I don't know if you read my post after the one you quoted, but I addressed this issue in it. If you have any other ideas, then let's hear it.
    Not misdiagnosis but any woman can claim bad cramps and get the prescription much like people get sleep medicines by making their hard time sleeping into full inability to sleep
    02-15-2014 06:26 PM
  9. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I'll third that notion. A couple I know was ready to file bankruptcy, which would mean giving up their house in the process. I found out about it, got more info on the situation and not only probably talked them out of it, but also going to help them learn how to be more wise with the money they do have to be more self sustaining.

    Show me a government program that can do that without trying to funnel them into some other entitlement program. Oh, and will do it at no charge anyone, including the taxpayer.
    02-15-2014 06:29 PM
  10. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Not misdiagnosis but any woman can claim bad cramps and get the prescription much like people get sleep medicines by making their hard time sleeping into full inability to sleep
    Again, I doubt that will be a wide spread problem.
    02-15-2014 06:32 PM
  11. palandri's Avatar
    That is actually completely false and has nothing to do with the discussion.

    The role the government should play is society is the debate. Just because someone believes entitlements should be cut back, does not mean they do not believe in helping each other. Actually, quite the opposite. I believe in citizens taking responsibility for those around them. I believe that I can do more good with my money then the government can by taking it away from me the then distributing it out through comity and burocracy (that take a cut of my money of course). I can personally see when someone is hurting. I can personally see when I am just giving a drunk a drink. The government has been proven not only be inefficient, but also to have a terrible time distinguishing when fraud is happening. So instead, I want to keep my own money so I can better help "we". It has little to do with selfishness or greed like you and many other liberals love to spew off like you are so much better than everyone that disagrees with you.
    If the right is really all about caring for others, then they need to follow the words of Reince Priebus and be more careful with what they say and how they word it, because the perception of caring is not there. The perception is more of a cold and callus one.
    msndrstood likes this.
    02-15-2014 06:47 PM
  12. Mooncatt's Avatar
    The perception is more of a cold and callus one.
    That's usually the reaction of people being given tough love.
    02-15-2014 06:54 PM
  13. nolittdroid's Avatar
    So its not an issue with birth control but with the whole insurance/welfare mess
    Some people just like making people suffer because they're difficult. Person A has issue with the system insurance coverage and welfare? Well lets make birth control coverage full cost because that will force the poor to deal with their consequences and then.... I can complain about my taxes going to support those on welfare! Rinse & repeat broken cycle. Makes total sense!

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    palandri and msndrstood like this.
    02-15-2014 06:59 PM
  14. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Fine, call it preventative maintenance.



    Agreed, but the purpose of each is similar. It's for major problems/accidents/etc you can't afford or prevent. It's pretty easy to avoid having a kid, even without using BC.



    You're misplacing the risk as was presented, but I will go ahead and say doctors and meds are a risk in the sense of misdiagnosis, side effects, etc. Birth control as contraceptive to mitigate the risk of having a kid is due to lifestyle choices. Catching a cold isn't.

    On the other side, people that drink and smoke are also making lifestyle choices that result in higher premIums. Since contraceptive is due to lifestyle choices too, then it's at least only fair that their premiums be higher as a result.



    You're assuming doctors are running rampant, knowingly giving out false prescriptions. There may be a few, but I doubt that would be the case in the vast majority of them. It would also require other steps to hide the lie, such as other insurance claims filed in relation to whatever medical condition was claimed. I.e. initial diagnosis and other ongoing care. The insurance companies could monitor for that.




    I don't know if you read my post after the one you quoted, but I addressed this issue in it. If you have any other ideas, then let's hear it.
    If a woman uses birth control as contraception AND to control her rampant pre menstrual depression what do we do then? Should we split the premium, lower your deductible by a quarter (because shes using it for legitimate medical purpsoe, not to run around like a *****) and then require a copay with monthly visits?

    Small government for the win!

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    02-15-2014 07:06 PM
  15. Mooncatt's Avatar
    If it's for a legitimate medical treatment, then cover it. That's something that would be needed regardless of the contraceptive issue.
    02-15-2014 07:29 PM
  16. NoYankees44's Avatar
    If the right is really all about caring for others, then they need to follow the words of Reince Priebus and be more careful with what they say and how they word it, because the perception of caring is not there. The perception is more of a cold and callus one.
    When one side will do nothing but screem at the top of their lungs that the right hates them and that they want to take away all we will just give you, it is hard to sound caring. It is also hard convey a message of "we will take less from you so you can help each other" when the other side is preaching a message of "we will just take from others and give to you". You want to talk about which side is selfish? Lol

    The people have already learned that they can bribe themselves with their own money. Next they will learn that the "rich" (that are also evil and hate them apparently) have plenty of money they can take and make their own. It is all turning into a perfect storm really. We will have to hit bottom before we can rise again. This country was built on the backs of creators and doers. People that were told no and then created their own yes. I see very little of that in today's society. I see people that demand more money for no more work and care nothing for each other. When we have a government that tells us every day how much we need them and even encourages the people to work less and rely on them, we are already half sunk.

    Buying votes is easier than earning them. The People have no concept of owning the government or even the money that is taken out of their check every week. They just know it happens. They see no consequence of voting and no reason to care. All they know is the wealth they receive. Whether it be just pay check or government assistance. Any easy way to get more is a good way. Who cares what the consequences are?
    02-15-2014 07:56 PM
  17. _Zguy__'s Avatar
    Again, I doubt that will be a wide spread problem.
    Haha haha haha haha haha haha haha haha

    Free with a visit or pay for it what will people chose.

    Every woman has cramps and mood swings with periods, doctors will never be able to draw a line so its just up to the patient to self report their conditions.

    And look at medical marijuana in a colorado or california for another example
    nolittdroid likes this.
    02-15-2014 08:56 PM
  18. Mooncatt's Avatar
    And look at medical marijuana in a colorado or california for another example
    That was the government turning a blind eye to the misuse and was a joke from the start.
    02-15-2014 09:38 PM
  19. anon8126715's Avatar
    If it's for a legitimate medical treatment, then cover it. That's something that would be needed regardless of the contraceptive issue.
    Sounds like the whole "legitimate rape" comment made by the right. Why not make trans-vaginal probing of all women mandatory? We can line them all up for the probe to make sure that they're not using the contraception for recreational sex.
    02-15-2014 09:50 PM
  20. nolittdroid's Avatar
    If it's for a legitimate medical treatment, then cover it. That's something that would be needed regardless of the contraceptive issue.
    How do we determine this though? Do we have to schedule meetings with every female to discuss whether or not her birth control is used for medicinal purposes, in a way that the board of directors and insurance company see fit? I could see this eventually becoming a violation of HIPAA standards, somehow. If nothing else, a massive waste of time and resources to essentially do a doctor's job for them, based on white house politics over a law that none of us have any control over. I just really can't believe all of this nonsense over medication that costs $10-50 a month, solves a number of reproductive issues, helps protect women from reproductive cancers AND prevents pregnancy.

    Do these conservatives actually WANT unwanted pregnancies and abortion rates to go up again?
    02-15-2014 10:05 PM
  21. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Sounds like the whole "legitimate rape" comment made by the right. Why not make trans-vaginal probing of all women mandatory? We can line them all up for the probe to make sure that they're not using the contraception for recreational sex.
    Which one?
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    02-15-2014 10:11 PM
  22. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I presented a possible solution to at least try to work from, regardless of which side you're on. I admit it wasn't perfect, but I've yet to see any other alternatives presented other than an all or nothing argument.
    02-15-2014 10:24 PM
  23. _Zguy__'s Avatar
    I presented a possible solution to at least try to work from, regardless of which side you're on. I admit it wasn't perfect, but I've yet to see any other alternatives presented other than an all or nothing argument.
    I still dont see the problem you have with the all argument?
    Sex is a choice so it shouldn't be covered?
    Riding in a car is a choice so I dont want that covered either
    Poor diet is a choice so I dont want people covered

    You have a problem with the idea of insurance not the birth control I think and sadly insurance isnt going anywhere
    02-15-2014 10:35 PM
  24. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    Riding in a car is totally different. You are driving a vehicle that puts others at risk of property damage, bodily injury, or death.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    02-15-2014 10:38 PM
  25. _Zguy__'s Avatar
    Riding in a car is totally different. You are driving a vehicle that puts others at risk of property damage, bodily injury, or death.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    If you are a guy you have parts to put females at risk of pregnancy

    Its not that different from a general view
    02-15-2014 10:48 PM
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