02-16-2014 07:38 AM
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  1. anon8126715's Avatar
    So essentially you have no problem with checks and balances being more or less violated as long as the policy you want gets through... In other words, you do not care about the system or how it is supposed to work. All you care about is your personal wishes being granted.
    I'm guessing you don't believe that what made this country great was a strong middle class.
    02-03-2014 05:43 PM
  2. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I'm guessing you don't believe that what made this country great was a strong middle class.
    I'm guessing that you fail to realize that has nothing to do with this discussion...
    02-03-2014 05:44 PM
  3. anon8126715's Avatar
    How about the fact that NY as well as a handful of other states (ie..Washington) have had their insurance markets regulated to the hilt well before the ACA. Some states have already been using a community rating that drove many younger people out of the insurance market all together. The individual mandate and subsides forced those people back in. NY premiums had no where to go but down because they were some of the highest in the nation. Partly due to Cuomo driving insurance carriers out of the state, resulting in less competition. Lets not forget that NY is more than just the 5 boroughs.
    You take an old car that hasn't been well maintained and then decide to bring it up and running again. I guarantee you it's going to cost you to get it up to where it needs to be initially, but then after some initial growing pains, if it's maintained the way it should be, you'll see the cost of maintaining it go down.

    What I find ironic about the ACA is all the right wing mouth breathers used to scream about "personal responsibility" and the ACA does that in spades (no pun intended, racism is over, we elected a black president right?!?!). If this legislation was authored by a Republican, everyone would be singing its praises. I still personally think it's a gift to the insurance companies without a single payer option, but it only goes to show how crazy-far-right the right wingers have become, when Bob Dole's old plan and Mitt Romney's plan has them screaming, "Oh no who told the black man he can force legislation on us? Isn't that what Kobe did to that woman in Colorado?

    HIDE YO WIFE HIDE YO KIDS!!!!

    State Of The Union-antoinedodson.gif

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm guessing that you fail to realize that has nothing to do with this discussion...
    That's kind of what I'd expect an obstructionist to say.
    02-03-2014 05:58 PM
  4. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I see a working class and an owning class. I stand by and support the working class. I think "we" rather than "me". The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. You won't change my mind, nor could I ever change your mind.
    I think "we" as well, but the way you talk, anyone that disagrees is thinking "me" or something else entirely. Supporting policy that YOU think means "we" is not the only way to fight for the greater good. Even if that is what you believe.

    And I sure hope that I never become so arrogant and blind that my views can never change. In fact, my views are constantly morphing. Maybe my beliefs are not making 180s, but they definitely move with every experience. That is the only reason I come to this section. To see the views of others and the rare occasion that someone posts something of value. To make posts to entice discussion and reaction. Never to try and win any sort of an argument and only rarely to make a point. Everyone has an opinion and a story. Visiting this section is a small way to see a few stories I would not see otherwise.
    02-03-2014 06:06 PM
  5. anon8126715's Avatar
    Considering I rarely listen to Fox news, that's interesting. Still, your video proved nothing. It's just a comedy bit and nothing more. There could have been a thousand people that gave answers the producers didn't want before finding the few that did, and you'd never know. You're also making the claim in a vacuum, not taking into account what can, and has happened for people to get those few perks.

    As for the trucking comment, there's good and bad workers in every job. Most people that try trucking don't last long because they aren't cut out for the lifestyle or can't grasp the skills. People willing to work as a cashier or flipping burgers can be trained in a day and are a dime a dozen. I don't expect you to understand the industry the same as an insider, but that doesn't mean you can write it off from one knuckle head you may have known in it. Mocking a business or person's name is just a willful insult.
    Your job is no more prestigious than anyone else's job. I could just as easily look down my nose at a truck driver as a mailman with a bigger truck. You taking offense to my remark was to show you that if you want to look down at someone because they work at a fast food restaurant or as a cashier, the same judgment can be thrown at you. Last I checked truck drivers weren't held in the highest esteem either, but does that mean that you should be treated any different than some upper management schmuck? I personally don't think so, but maybe if you were, you'd rethink your stance.
    02-03-2014 06:11 PM
  6. anon8126715's Avatar
    What's the most inexpensive way to insure that everyone, regardless of demographics, has basic comprehensive health insurance or otherwise access to health care?

    (It doesn't need to cover elective nose jobs, but does need to cover preventative care, emergency, most illnesses and injuries, etc...)
    Deport everyone to Canada?
    02-03-2014 06:14 PM
  7. NoYankees44's Avatar

    That's kind of what I'd expect an obstructionist to say.
    Obstructionist? If you actually read and comprehended my posts you would see something quite different. But that's Okay. Make blind accusations and muddy the waters all you like. It makes no difference too me.
    02-03-2014 06:14 PM
  8. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    The first shots were fired before Obama's first year. And say that Limbaugh doesn't represent the GOP all you want, he represents a large portion of the crazy fringe GOP.

    Wanting a socialist/big government agenda to fail? Wow...lol

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    02-03-2014 06:15 PM
  9. anon8126715's Avatar
    Wanting a socialist/big government agenda to fail? Wow...lol

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    ...Riiiiggghhht, because the previous administration's war-mongering-push-our-economy-to-the-brink-of-collapse policies worked sooo well....
    02-03-2014 06:24 PM
  10. Mooncatt's Avatar
    What do you do if you're making minimum wage? Do you expect people to save money making minimum wage?
    I didn't say make it forced, or only have those plans. I said allow them, meaning it'd be elective for those that want them. It still wouldn't be too hard to get the savings going for minimum wage workers. You need the insurance plan first before you can even get a medical savings account. You could kick start the savings with a tax refund, then finish funding it with the savings realized by the cheaper premiums catastrophic plans have. If a regular plan is $200 and a catastrophic is $100, then stick that extra $100. Into the medical savings account until fully funded or more.

    What would be enough money in a medical savings account? It's an important question to cut down on bankruptcy due to medical bills.
    It depends on the catastrophic plan deductible and what the insured feel comfortable with. Before they started going to the wayside, the lowest deductible available to me was $3000/yr. Once you hit the deductible, most plans cover everything 100%, as well as allowing for a physical each year being covered by the insurance. So you'd want at least that much. Probably more if you plan to increase the deductible, which also gives you lower rates. Plus, they grow interest tax free and can be used to supplement your retirement too if you'd like.

    If you need to go to the doctor, you pay from the savings account up to your deductible. This forces people to make more wise choices in care and generally treatments are able to be negotiated for less. At that point, it's a simple transaction for the doctor, no dealing with insurance companies, making sure you're covered, and then getting the insurance payment. It's simply more efficient on their part for patients to self pay.
    02-03-2014 06:24 PM
  11. nolittdroid's Avatar
    How about the fact that NY as well as a handful of other states (ie..Washington) have had their insurance markets regulated to the hilt well before the ACA. Some states have already been using a community rating that drove many younger people out of the insurance market all together. The individual mandate and subsides forced those people back in. NY premiums had no where to go but down because they were some of the highest in the nation. Partly due to Cuomo driving insurance carriers out of the state, resulting in less competition. Lets not forget that NY is more than just the 5 boroughs.
    Actually, you should blame your state or your employer for your plan going up in cost. They're the ones passing the cost off to you, not Obamacare. States that already satisfy many provisions of Obamcare have lower premiums (see: NY). ETA: And the Republicans don't want the law to succeed...that's why they've challenged it 40-something times.
    That's...what I said. NY is a state, why would I be referring to the 5 boroughs?
    02-03-2014 06:39 PM
  12. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Your job is no more prestigious than anyone else's job. I could just as easily look down my nose at a truck driver as a mailman with a bigger truck. You taking offense to my remark was to show you that if you want to look down at someone because they work at a fast food restaurant or as a cashier, the same judgment can be thrown at you. Last I checked truck drivers weren't held in the highest esteem either, but does that mean that you should be treated any different than some upper management schmuck? I personally don't think so, but maybe if you were, you'd rethink your stance.
    It's obvious you paying some attention what I've said. So what have I been saying all along regarding pay and the value of a person's job when talking about wages?
    02-03-2014 06:39 PM
  13. cdmjlt369's Avatar
    ...Riiiiggghhht, because the previous administration's war-mongering-push-our-economy-to-the-brink-of-collapse policies worked sooo well....
    And Obama's taken over 1/6 of the economy with obamacare. And Obama has continued Bush's war habits.

    Sent from my XT1060 using AC Forums mobile app
    02-03-2014 06:41 PM
  14. _Zguy__'s Avatar
    The fundamental ideas the government was founded on is that making laws would be a long slow hard process that would require compromise from a diverse constituency. Prevent the intensity of a short time from changing law instead requiring years of action.

    With modern society thats out the door completely.
    02-03-2014 08:05 PM
  15. _Zguy__'s Avatar
    What I find ironic about the ACA is all the right wing mouth breathers used to scream about "personal responsibility" and the ACA does that in spades (no pun intended, racism is over, we elected a black president right?!?!). If this legislation was authored by a Republican, everyone would be singing its praises. I still personally think it's a gift to the insurance companies without a single payer option, but it only goes to show how crazy-far-right the right wingers have become, when Bob Dole's old plan and Mitt Romney's plan has them screaming, "Oh no who told the black man he can force legislation on us? Isn't that what Kobe did to that woman in Colorado?
    Its a gift to insurance companies even though it places a huge burden on them in the early years so the law looks good and when they fail they have a bailout clause. Perfect safety net
    02-03-2014 08:07 PM
  16. Mooncatt's Avatar
    The fundamental ideas the government was founded on is that making laws would be a long slow hard process that would require compromise from a diverse constituency. Prevent the intensity of a short time from changing law instead requiring years of action.

    With modern society thats out the door completely.
    Sadly, in today's world, compromise is one side wanting to chop off your head and the other side saying that would kill you, so both sides agree to chop off your arm instead. It's technically a compromise, but that doesn't make the result a good choice.

    Which side is which depends on your political affiliation. Libertarians probably think they both want to chop your head off, but are trying to decide which implement to use.
    Aquila likes this.
    02-03-2014 08:37 PM
  17. Aquila's Avatar
    Sadly, in today's world, compromise is one side wanting to chop off your head and the other side saying that would kill you, so both sides agree to chop off your arm instead. It's technically a compromise, but that doesn't make the result a good choice.

    Which side is which depends on your political affiliation. Libertarians probably think they both want to chop your head off, but are trying to decide which implement to use.
    People in my camp probably think both sides want to chop off your head, but are trying to figure out who gets paid for it. And do they get paid more if it's both arms AND a head?
    02-03-2014 08:39 PM
  18. SteveISU's Avatar
    Would you allow the use of catastrophic plans, combined with medical savings accounts? That's the kind of plan I'd want and puts more power/responsibility into the hands of the people.
    No, there would be a set coverage and that is what everyone will carry. You can select plans with different deductibles and co-pays if you'd like to lower your premiums but the coverage is the same. Bottom line is EVERYONE will be responsible for the first 10% (capped at $5000 in case something catastrophic occurs) I'd get creative with plans as well. Refunding premiums if people maintain or improve their health over a 3 year term, determined by a series of metrics of course.
    02-04-2014 09:22 AM
  19. palandri's Avatar
    No, there would be a set coverage and that is what everyone will carry. You can select plans with different deductibles and co-pays if you'd like to lower your premiums but the coverage is the same. Bottom line is EVERYONE will be responsible for the first 10% (capped at $5000 in case something catastrophic occurs) I'd get creative with plans as well. Refunding premiums if people maintain or improve their health over a 3 year term, determined by a series of metrics of course.
    You have some good ideas. I question whether someone making minimum wage could afford to pay a $5,000 cap. Most people on minimum wage live week to week with no savings.
    msndrstood likes this.
    02-04-2014 09:37 AM
  20. Mooncatt's Avatar
    No, there would be a set coverage and that is what everyone will carry.
    That's half the problem with the ACA right now. There is no one size fits all for an entire country. Either too many get over insured, or you make the plan so basic that it's about worthless unless you buy the supplemental coverages to give at least some flexibility.
    02-04-2014 01:21 PM
  21. SteveISU's Avatar
    You have some good ideas. I question whether someone making minimum wage could afford to pay a $5,000 cap. Most people on minimum wage live week to week with no savings.
    Less than 3% of workers make the federal minimum wage. Some of the Bronze level plans on the exchanges have deductibles in excess of $12,000. The premiums are the lowest, but do you think the people you speak of can afford the deductible on that plan? People talk about medical bills bankrupting people, $12,000 would tank the very person you speak of. Did the ACA help that person?
    02-04-2014 01:26 PM
  22. SteveISU's Avatar
    That's half the problem with the ACA right now. There is no one size fits all for an entire country. Either too many get over insured, or you make the plan so basic that it's about worthless unless you buy the supplemental coverages to give at least some flexibility.
    There is a happy medium that must be looked at. If people want to argue that there should be free will to purchase as little insurance as they'd like, then I'd argue to then make medical debt non-dischargeable in bankruptcy court. You can take the gamble of buying the least amount of coverage, but when you lose don't look to be bailed out, I'd have no pity on you. There are minimum standards on auto policies, we would have to find the minimum for health insurance. Clearly other countries have shown that a one size fits all does work, we just have to figure out how large or how small to make it fit. The bottom line is what I'm talking about is consumer driven, not socialized medicine.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    02-04-2014 01:51 PM
  23. palandri's Avatar
    Less than 3% of workers make the federal minimum wage. Some of the Bronze level plans on the exchanges have deductibles in excess of $12,000. The premiums are the lowest, but do you think the people you speak of can afford the deductible on that plan? People talk about medical bills bankrupting people, $12,000 would tank the very person you speak of. Did the ACA help that person?
    Then there's people that make $7.30 an hour and $7.40 an hour. Then l believe there's about 15% of all workers that fall below the poverty line. Maybe make it an adjustable cap determined by your 1040 up to the poverty line? or something like that. I am just throwing an idea out. Like I said, you're thinking it through and tossing out good ideas.

    I agree that Bronze plan sucks unless you have a lot of money sitting around. ...and if someone can't pay the $12K in 30 days what happens? Collections? Wages garnished?
    02-04-2014 02:23 PM
  24. palandri's Avatar
    There is a happy medium that must be looked at. If people want to argue that there should be free will to purchase as little insurance as they'd like, then I'd argue to then make medical debt non-dischargeable in bankruptcy court. You can take the gamble of buying the least amount of coverage, but when you lose don't look to be bailed out, I'd have no pity on you. There are minimum standards on auto policies, we would have to find the minimum for health insurance. Clearly other countries have shown that a one size fits all does work, we just have to figure out how large or how small to make it fit. The bottom line is what I'm talking about is consumer driven, not socialized medicine.
    Why set up a gamble? Just cover everyone equally. Just a thought.
    02-04-2014 02:26 PM
  25. Mooncatt's Avatar
    There is a happy medium that must be looked at. If people want to argue that there should be free will to purchase as little insurance as they'd like, then I'd argue to then make medical debt non-dischargeable in bankruptcy court. You can take the gamble of buying the least amount of coverage, but when you lose don't look to be bailed out, I'd have no pity on you. There are minimum standards on auto policies, we would have to find the minimum for health insurance. Clearly other countries have shown that a one size fits all does work, we just have to figure out how large or how small to make it fit. The bottom line is what I'm talking about is consumer driven, not socialized medicine.
    I can agree to some of that, but there needs to be flexibility in the system for people to get plans that best suit them without a lot of extras they don't need. You say consumer driven, but did you read my short explanation of the catastrophic plans with savings option I posted above? That's about the most consumer driven insurance you could have. And once you meet your deductible, everything is covered 100%. No co-pays or anything like that. Yes, it's not for everybody, but why take that option off the table?

    Btw, careful how you use the car insurance analogy. That's a state by state regulation, not federal. It's also meant to cover others for your accidents more than anything. I.E. paying medical bills of the other party and their repair costs if you're at fault, and to protect a lien holder for the loss of collateral. You can get insurance to cover your costs too (some state do require it), but that's not the main purpose of car insurance requirements.
    cdmjlt369 likes this.
    02-04-2014 02:30 PM
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