04-23-2015 05:51 PM
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  1. Scott7217's Avatar
    Do you consider the enforcement of treaties to be meaningless?
    I can agree that we should fulfill our treaty obligations. If the Russian army starts shooting, the Ukrainian government can ask for help under the terms of the treaty, and the US will respond with military force, if necessary. However, all the news reports I've read state that no one is shooting yet. Do you have a source that says otherwise?
    03-05-2014 06:58 PM
  2. Justin Cardwell's Avatar
    My views on involvement in other nations is if a nation is causing the destruction of mass lives, or a potential threat to us in the near future it needs to be dealt with. If not then we do not need to get involved. I think if a nation wants to be free, then it is their job to achieve their goal.
    03-05-2014 07:04 PM
  3. Scott7217's Avatar
    As to how I would rate Obama in this, it is waaaaaaaaay too early to give that assessment. It amazes me that with this situation only being a week old, people want to Monday Morning Quarterback this thing already. There will be plenty of time for looking back later. Right now, we are still in the middle of things.
    It's turning in to a big big deal.
    We can certainly voice our opinion on Obama's action (or lack thereof) in this situation, especially if it's turning into a big, big deal. For example, has Obama ordered any US Navy carriers into the area as a show of force? Many presidents have done that in the past to defuse tense situations.
    03-05-2014 07:11 PM
  4. GadgetGator's Avatar
    I can agree that we should fulfill our treaty obligations. If the Russian army starts shooting, the Ukrainian government can ask for help under the terms of the treaty, and the US will respond with military force, if necessary. However, all the news reports I've read state that no one is shooting yet. Do you have a source that says otherwise?
    THAT'S the criteria? Shots fired? So if say, Cuba wanted to occupy Florida that would be cool as long as no shots were fired??

    My views on involvement in other nations is if a nation is causing the destruction of mass lives, or a potential threat to us in the near future it needs to be dealt with. If not then we do not need to get involved. I think if a nation wants to be free, then it is their job to achieve their goal.
    What if it is a nation that is hopelessly outgunned and outmanned that wants to be free? Do we say, "sucks to be you, should have birthed more babies and built a bigger army"?

    We can certainly voice our opinion on Obama's action (or lack thereof) in this situation, especially if it's turning into a big, big deal. For example, has Obama ordered any US Navy carriers into the area as a show of force? Many presidents have done that in the past to defuse tense situations.
    Our carriers were already there in case anything went down during the Olympics.
    Scott7217 and msndrstood like this.
    03-05-2014 08:58 PM
  5. Scott7217's Avatar
    THAT'S the criteria? Shots fired? So if say, Cuba wanted to occupy Florida that would be cool as long as no shots were fired??
    If Cuba attempted to occupy Florida, the US military would attack the invading Cuban forces. I would not expect American allies (such as Canada or the UK) to intervene first.
    03-05-2014 09:07 PM
  6. Scott7217's Avatar
    Our carriers were already there in case anything went down during the Olympics.
    Thank you for the reminder. I looked into that, and this is what I've found so far:

    These Are the American Forces That Could Fight in Ukraine - Medium.com

    1 aircraft carrier - the USS George H.W. Bush, carrying:
    - 2 squadrons of F/A-18E/F Super Hornets
    - 2 squadrons of F/A-18C Hornets
    - 1 squadron of EA-6B Prowler electronic warfare planes
    - 1 squadron of E-2C Hawkeye early-warning aircraft
    - 2 squadrons of Seahawk helicopters
    - 2 C-2 transport planes

    2 destroyers - the USS Truxtun and the USS Roosevelt

    1 cruiser - the USS Philippine Sea

    1 command ship - the USS Mount Whitney

    1 attack submarine (classified)

    Additional support comes from:

    USS Arleigh Burke and USS Donald Cook (2 destroyers based in Spain)

    USS Bataan (helicopter carrier) Amphibious Ready Group, consisting of:
    - 2nd Marine Expeditionary Unit (2,400 Marines)
    - 2 Assault Ships (the USS Gunston Hall and USS Mesa Verde)

    Armys 173rd Airborne Brigade (3,300 soldiers) in Vicenza, Italy

    3 squadrons of F-15s (RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England)

    2 squadrons of F-16s (Aviano Air Force Base, Italy)

    1 squadron of F-16s (Spangdahlem in Germany)

    4 F-15s (NATO air patrol in Lithuania)

    82nd Airborne Division (on standby in Fort Bragg, North Carolina)
    palandri likes this.
    03-05-2014 09:40 PM
  7. palandri's Avatar
    Thank you for the reminder. I looked into that, and this is what I've found so far:

    These Are the American Forces That Could Fight in Ukraine - Medium.com

    1 aircraft carrier - the USS George H.W. Bush, carrying:
    - 2 squadrons of F/A-18E/F Super Hornets
    - 2 squadrons of F/A-18C Hornets
    - 1 squadron of EA-6B Prowler electronic warfare planes
    - 1 squadron of E-2C Hawkeye early-warning aircraft
    - 2 squadrons of Seahawk helicopters
    - 2 C-2 transport planes

    2 destroyers - the USS Truxtun and the USS Roosevelt

    1 cruiser - the USS Philippine Sea

    1 command ship - the USS Mount Whitney

    1 attack submarine (classified)

    Additional support comes from:

    USS Arleigh Burke and USS Donald Cook (2 destroyers based in Spain)

    USS Bataan (helicopter carrier) Amphibious Ready Group, consisting of:
    - 2nd Marine Expeditionary Unit (2,400 Marines)
    - 2 Assault Ships (the USS Gunston Hall and USS Mesa Verde)

    Army’s 173rd Airborne Brigade (3,300 soldiers) in Vicenza, Italy

    3 squadrons of F-15s (RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England)

    2 squadrons of F-16s (Aviano Air Force Base, Italy)

    1 squadron of F-16s (Spangdahlem in Germany)

    4 F-15s (NATO air patrol in Lithuania)

    82nd Airborne Division (on standby in Fort Bragg, North Carolina)
    We aren't going to war with Russia.
    Scott7217 and msndrstood like this.
    03-05-2014 10:00 PM
  8. Tall Mike 2145's Avatar
    We aren't going to war with Russia.
    Ah, c'mon. You know we are just spoiling for another meaningless, gloryless war in which we can have wall-to-wall coverage and advertising, and enormous casualties on the other side, so that we can ring up trillions more in national debt and then also bail out two more destroyed economies instead of actually doing anything to repair our own nation.
    msndrstood and palandri like this.
    03-11-2014 02:08 PM
  9. wolfhead's Avatar
    In Jersey City NJ Ukrainians boycott outside a Lukoil gas station which is owned by a Russian company. Which then feeds the Russian economy therefore it's military. Show your support and REFUSE to buy your gasoline from any Lukoil gas stations.

    Sent from my C5170 using Tapatalk
    Attached Thumbnails Ukraine (and Russia)-uploadfromtaptalk1395105534972.jpg  
    GadgetGator likes this.
    03-17-2014 08:21 PM
  10. Bratigan's Avatar
    I have banished myself from here before but its time to make some comments.

    I am posting these suggestions but will not argue the merits with the lefties, period.

    Recipe for dealing with Russia.
    Install all the missile defense systems that Poland wanted immediately.
    Make a long term contract with the Ukraine to establish air bases within the country.
    Establish a port of call for the fleet on Ukrainian soil if there is a deep port available.
    Allow Ukraine entry into NATO immediately
    Freeze any and all Russian assets.
    Unleash any and all oil assets that we can and supply our allies. We are the largest producers of oil and natural gas, time we used them, it will also fuel our economy. It will devastate Russia.
    Go down to Cuba and take command of the Russian spy vessel stationed there when it leaves port, after all it is close enough to compromise American citizens which is the logic that Vlad used, why not us. When we have the vessel we empty its fuel load and weapons and sink it in shallow water so the world can see it rot. The crew can be sent to Guantanamo, indefinitely if need be.
    While we are there its time to make Cuba American, we have the resources and those poor people need to start driving cars that were not made in the fifties.
    Americans saved the world twice before, its time we did it again.
    Russia is no match for our people or equipment, in the Iraq war we lost not one American tank and killed every Russian tank on the battlefield. Russian soldiers also train and move so close together that they are a ready made target, keeps costs down when dispensing armaments.
    I am sure there is more but this is a good place to start.
    Now if only we had a president with some life experience and not a Chicago Community Organizer.
    Its almost time to fight again people, so lets grow a pair.
    palandri and jdbii like this.
    03-18-2014 08:46 AM
  11. Aquila's Avatar
    We aren't going to war with Russia.
    Recipe for dealing with Russia.
    Install all the missile defense systems that Poland wanted immediately.
    Make a long term contract with the Ukraine to establish air bases within the country.
    Establish a port of call for the fleet on Ukrainian soil if there is a deep port available.
    Allow Ukraine entry into NATO immediately
    Freeze any and all Russian assets.
    Unleash any and all oil assets that we can and supply our allies. We are the largest producers of oil and natural gas, time we used them, it will also fuel our economy. It will devastate Russia.
    Go down to Cuba and take command of the Russian spy vessel stationed there when it leaves port, after all it is close enough to compromise American citizens which is the logic that Vlad used, why not us. When we have the vessel we empty its fuel load and weapons and sink it in shallow water so the world can see it rot. The crew can be sent to Guantanamo, indefinitely if need be.
    While we are there its time to make Cuba American, we have the resources and those poor people need to start driving cars that were not made in the fifties.
    Americans saved the world twice before, its time we did it again.
    Russia is no match for our people or equipment, in the Iraq war we lost not one American tank and killed every Russian tank on the battlefield. Russian soldiers also train and move so close together that they are a ready made target, keeps costs down when dispensing armaments.
    I am sure there is more but this is a good place to start.
    Now if only we had a president with some life experience and not a Chicago Community Organizer.
    Its almost time to fight again people, so lets grow a pair.
    These two statements do not agree at all.
    palandri likes this.
    03-18-2014 12:15 PM
  12. palandri's Avatar
    These two statements do not agree at all.
    LOL!
    03-18-2014 02:39 PM
  13. Tall Mike 2145's Avatar
    Ok, so let us assume the following:

    1. The treaty we have with Ukraine finds the conditions for its invoking to occur (and Ukraine exercises its option);
    2. We try all other non-military options first, and they fail;
    3. The President goes to congress and gets legitimate approval to engage militarily;
    4. Let's even throw in the option that Russia decides to militarily threaten the U.S.

    At this point, all the correct procedures have been followed, along with obvious common sense approaches being taken. We're at the stage where military action is required, it is justified, and is Constitutional (for a change!!!) so here's what I would say.

    We can absolutely wipe the walls with whatever Russia's got. We can absolutely rain living death down upon those folks, and not that they couldn't do the same to us, but we could do it to them in spades. What we should do is to ensure we have "eyes" on Putin at all times, along with his cronies, and take them out, along with all support personnel and assets. At that point, we render what aid is required to ensure internal stability in Russia lest we have another repeat of WWI Germany, and once the Russian people get their collective heads screwed on straight and put in a good government, we GTFO. Period. The whole area is a disaster area of corruption and intrigue, so the less time we have to spend over there, the better.

    I'd actually also suggest working through the Internet and international news media and as quickly as possible send the message to the Russian population that now is the time for them to stand on their own and deal with the idiots who are propping up the system of corruption they have to deal with, and that we really don't desire being over there any more than they would desire us being there.
    03-18-2014 02:42 PM
  14. GadgetGator's Avatar
    I have banished myself from here before but its time to make some comments.

    I am posting these suggestions but will not argue the merits with the lefties, period.

    Recipe for dealing with Russia.
    Install all the missile defense systems that Poland wanted immediately.
    Make a long term contract with the Ukraine to establish air bases within the country.
    Establish a port of call for the fleet on Ukrainian soil if there is a deep port available.
    Allow Ukraine entry into NATO immediately
    Freeze any and all Russian assets.
    Unleash any and all oil assets that we can and supply our allies. We are the largest producers of oil and natural gas, time we used them, it will also fuel our economy. It will devastate Russia.
    Go down to Cuba and take command of the Russian spy vessel stationed there when it leaves port, after all it is close enough to compromise American citizens which is the logic that Vlad used, why not us. When we have the vessel we empty its fuel load and weapons and sink it in shallow water so the world can see it rot. The crew can be sent to Guantanamo, indefinitely if need be.
    While we are there its time to make Cuba American, we have the resources and those poor people need to start driving cars that were not made in the fifties.
    Americans saved the world twice before, its time we did it again.
    Russia is no match for our people or equipment, in the Iraq war we lost not one American tank and killed every Russian tank on the battlefield. Russian soldiers also train and move so close together that they are a ready made target, keeps costs down when dispensing armaments.
    I am sure there is more but this is a good place to start.
    Now if only we had a president with some life experience and not a Chicago Community Organizer.
    Its almost time to fight again people, so lets grow a pair.
    Problem with all that is you need to argue the merits with the RIGHTIES who also are pretty war weary at this point. John McCain excluded.

    Your ideas are all pie in the sky at this point simply because the American people don't want to spend our money or lives on some foreign soil for awhile Been there done that. Which is why Putin is doing this now to begin with. Timing is everything. He knows we are war weary, and now that he has his precious Olympics behind him, and Europe wrapped around his finger with needed oil supplies, the time was never more right for him to do what he wants.

    And while nice in theory...transporting natural gas to Europe would be a problem for us to do. Which is why they use Russia's to begin with.
    msndrstood and jdbii like this.
    03-18-2014 05:12 PM
  15. jdbii's Avatar
    I am posting these suggestions but will not argue the merits with the lefties, period.
    I love this quote.

    While we are there its time to make Cuba American, we have the resources and those poor people need to start driving cars that were not made in the fifties.
    Just lift the travel and trade restrictions.
    03-18-2014 07:28 PM
  16. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Ok, so let us assume the following:

    1. The treaty we have with Ukraine finds the conditions for its invoking to occur (and Ukraine exercises its option);
    2. We try all other non-military options first, and they fail;
    3. The President goes to congress and gets legitimate approval to engage militarily;
    4. Let's even throw in the option that Russia decides to militarily threaten the U.S.

    At this point, all the correct procedures have been followed, along with obvious common sense approaches being taken. We're at the stage where military action is required, it is justified, and is Constitutional (for a change!!!) so here's what I would say.

    We can absolutely wipe the walls with whatever Russia's got. We can absolutely rain living death down upon those folks, and not that they couldn't do the same to us, but we could do it to them in spades. What we should do is to ensure we have "eyes" on Putin at all times, along with his cronies, and take them out, along with all support personnel and assets. At that point, we render what aid is required to ensure internal stability in Russia lest we have another repeat of WWI Germany, and once the Russian people get their collective heads screwed on straight and put in a good government, we GTFO. Period. The whole area is a disaster area of corruption and intrigue, so the less time we have to spend over there, the better.

    I'd actually also suggest working through the Internet and international news media and as quickly as possible send the message to the Russian population that now is the time for them to stand on their own and deal with the idiots who are propping up the system of corruption they have to deal with, and that we really don't desire being over there any more than they would desire us being there.
    There's a lot of ideology to overcome. We'd need help with some allies that Russians haven't been conditioned (through propaganda) to hate as much. That's always been our problem IMO. We go somewhere, destroy, rebuild (how does that turn of events even make sense anyway?), fail because of weariness of the local people and lack of assistance from allies that have a better "rapport" for lack of a better word.

    I avoided the justification part of the statement because I agree with you, and we're well past that for my other references.
    03-21-2014 03:14 AM
  17. xchange's Avatar
    Putin is a ******. We should've let the boys in black put the fear of Prussia into them first and mopped up later and avoided the cold war altogether.
    03-24-2014 06:38 PM
  18. SteveISU's Avatar
    They're well on their way to swallowing up eastern Ukraine. Obama should draw another line in the sand like he did with Syria.
    04-15-2014 04:45 PM
  19. anon8126715's Avatar
    C'mon you guys, stop being such gloomy guses. Am I the only one that is already looking forward to a "Spies Like Us II" from all this cold war resurgence?


    04-16-2014 08:03 PM
  20. AirSupply's Avatar
    I believe that there will be no military intervention from the NATO or U.S. in Ukraine. Our country simply doesn't have enough resources to police the whole world anymore. The Army is experiencing lot of changes lately, involuntary separation, pays, promotion .... We have more problems here at home to solve
    04-22-2014 12:04 PM
  21. SteveISU's Avatar
    I believe that there will be no military intervention from the NATO or U.S. in Ukraine. Our country simply doesn't have enough resources to police the whole world anymore. The Army is experiencing lot of changes lately, involuntary separation, pays, promotion .... We have more problems here at home to solve
    See... Budapest memorandum
    04-23-2014 09:03 AM
  22. Letsgo1001's Avatar
    Guys, I am from Ukraine. The situation is really bad. This is new type of war from Russia. It's terrorist-type, KGB-developed war. Russia sends well-trained mercenaries with the best special weapons to Ukraine. Thousands of them are inside of my country now. Ukraine need help now. Please sign petition to White House to designate Russia as country - sponsor of terrorism: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...orism/XMjbTltM.
    Please re-post invitation to sign this petition everywhere possible!
    Let's stop KGB monster Putin! Thanks!
    05-10-2014 07:22 AM
  23. SteveISU's Avatar
    Clearly the rest of the world doesn't take our current Presidents threats and "lines in the sand" very seriously. Obviously we wouldn't go to war. So how do we stop Putin from his imperial aspirations of a reunification of the old Soviet Union?
    07-29-2014 01:00 PM
  24. msndrstood's Avatar
    And what would you have him do? You make it sound like it's just happening because it's him and anyone else would have slapped Putin into shape. Putin has been out of control for a long time.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    07-29-2014 01:06 PM
  25. Timelessblur's Avatar
    Clearly the rest of the world doesn't take our current Presidents threats and "lines in the sand" very seriously. Obviously we wouldn't go to war. So how do we stop Putin from his imperial aspirations of a reunification of the old Soviet Union?
    Yeah they know our do nothing congress will never approve anything. Sorry you can not put the blame on the president on this one alone. Most of the blame falls on congress and its complete dysfunction. Hell I would be shocked if anything even got out House as the party of No will just to it standard BS.

    Do you really expect the GOP to anything but bad mouth the president? Your post started off with pretty much the typical GOP BS and it is pretty clear you do not want ot anything but bad mouth the president.
    07-29-2014 01:07 PM
247 1234 ...

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