04-23-2015 05:51 PM
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  1. Scott7217's Avatar
    IMO this is Obama's biggest problem with foreign policy.
    Leon Panetta is also criticizing Obama's policy.

    Former defense secretary lays out disagreements with President Obama -- CNN (article link here)

    Excerpt:

    "I take the position that when you're commander in chief that you oughta keep all options on the table ... to be able to have the flexibility to do what is necessary in order to defeat the enemy," former Defense Secretary and CIA Director Leon Panetta told CNN.

    "We're conducting airstrikes. But to make those airstrikes work, to be able to do what you had to do, you don't -- you don't just send planes in and drop bombs. You've gotta have targets. You've gotta know what you're goin' after. To do that, you do need people on the ground."
    10-07-2014 08:46 PM
  2. anon8126715's Avatar
    Leon Panetta is also criticizing Obama's policy.

    Former defense secretary lays out disagreements with President Obama -- CNN (article link here)

    Excerpt:

    "I take the position that when you're commander in chief that you oughta keep all options on the table ... to be able to have the flexibility to do what is necessary in order to defeat the enemy," former Defense Secretary and CIA Director Leon Panetta told CNN.

    "We're conducting airstrikes. But to make those airstrikes work, to be able to do what you had to do, you don't -- you don't just send planes in and drop bombs. You've gotta have targets. You've gotta know what you're goin' after. To do that, you do need people on the ground."
    I don't agree with boots on the ground. I actually think that Obama is keeping that option opened, but I learned a LONG TIME AGO that the commander-in-chief will tell the American people what he thinks they want to hear, "no new taxes" anyone? That being said, I still think the rest of the world needs to start pulling their own weight in such matters. We can't just bankrupt ourselves for every single incursion that takes place in the world, unless the rest of the world wants to help us start rebuilding our own crumbling infrastructure.
    10-08-2014 05:58 AM
  3. SteveISU's Avatar
    Leon Panetta is also criticizing Obama's policy.

    Former defense secretary lays out disagreements with President Obama -- CNN (article link here)

    Excerpt:

    "I take the position that when you're commander in chief that you oughta keep all options on the table ... to be able to have the flexibility to do what is necessary in order to defeat the enemy," former Defense Secretary and CIA Director Leon Panetta told CNN.

    "We're conducting airstrikes. But to make those airstrikes work, to be able to do what you had to do, you don't -- you don't just send planes in and drop bombs. You've gotta have targets. You've gotta know what you're goin' after. To do that, you do need people on the ground."

    It has been made abundantly clear that Obama doesn't listen to his advisers much. It is also clear that he doesn't have the stomach for the political battles that such decisions would evoke as it pertains to his foreign policy decisions, especially with the left. He would rather us be a weak country then answer to his constituents why he made the decisions he made. None of his hard line backers have ever pegged him on Gitmo remaining open and he'd like it to stay that way. It's a classic example of a campaign promise that was made without knowing the ramifications of such a silly promise.

    As I've said before, he needs to shut up and keep all options on the table and let our enemy's believe we are capable of anything. Stop ruling out strategies and then handing them a blueprint. I don't care if you are a pathetic weak minded man who pees sitting down, when it comes to the image and front you project to the rest of the world on where the US stands, it is that our security and the safety/freedom of others around the globe will be met with the utmost force if you challenge us. You want to use whatever back channel talks after the fact, so be it, it happens all the time. But this nation, for all our goods, cannot be viewed as weak. We sure as hell can't have our President drawing lines in the sand left and right and having everyone cross them with no consequence.
    10-08-2014 09:55 AM
  4. anon8126715's Avatar
    It has been made abundantly clear that Obama doesn't listen to his advisers much. It is also clear that he doesn't have the stomach for the political battles that such decisions would evoke as it pertains to his foreign policy decisions, especially with the left. He would rather us be a weak country then answer to his constituents why he made the decisions he made. None of his hard line backers have ever pegged him on Gitmo remaining open and he'd like it to stay that way. It's a classic example of a campaign promise that was made without knowing the ramifications of such a silly promise.

    As I've said before, he needs to shut up and keep all options on the table and let our enemy's believe we are capable of anything. Stop ruling out strategies and then handing them a blueprint. I don't care if you are a pathetic weak minded man who pees sitting down, when it comes to the image and front you project to the rest of the world on where the US stands, it is that our security and the safety/freedom of others around the globe will be met with the utmost force if you challenge us. You want to use whatever back channel talks after the fact, so be it, it happens all the time. But this nation, for all our goods, cannot be viewed as weak. We sure as hell can't have our President drawing lines in the sand left and right and having everyone cross them with no consequence.
    The problem is you and your ilk would prod him to go to war and then if he does, you'll scream "LOOK HE'S RUNNING US FURTHER INTO DEBT!" Why do you think no one on the right wants to vote much less even discuss what's taking place?

    I will say this, at least one GOP congressman has the backbone to say what his colleagues are up to.

    “It’s an election year. A lot of Democrats don’t know how it would play in their party, and Republicans don’t want to change anything. We like the path we’re on now. We can denounce it if it goes bad, and praise it if it goes well and ask what took him so long.”
    10-08-2014 06:45 PM
  5. SteveISU's Avatar
    The problem is you and your ilk would prod him to go to war and then if he does, you'll scream "LOOK HE'S RUNNING US FURTHER INTO DEBT!" Why do you think no one on the right wants to vote much less even discuss what's taking place?

    I will say this, at least one GOP congressman has the backbone to say what his colleagues are up to.
    I don't think anyone on the right with half a brain would talk about debt when it comes to the security of this country.

    Just about everyone has stated he is 2yrs too late. You know you've hit rock bottom when Jimmy Carter is ripping you on being gutless and narrow minded.
    Maladroit23 likes this.
    10-08-2014 06:50 PM
  6. anon8126715's Avatar
    I don't think anyone on the right with half a brain would talk about debt when it comes to the security of this country.

    Just about everyone has stated he is 2yrs too late. You know you've hit rock bottom when Jimmy Carter is ripping you on being gutless and narrow minded.
    The right has no problem about talking about debt when it comes to the health of the American public. I guarantee you that lack of quality healthcare has killed more Americans than ISIS will EVER kill. Lets look at guns, I don't hear the right addressing all the gun deaths in America. The only reason the right wing loves perpetuating the threat of ISIS is that it means more defense spending.

    I still think that we have no business in Iraq and if it weren't for the poor foreign policy of the previous administration, we wouldn't have ISIS to contend with right now. At this point we're obligated to help fix what GWB was perfectly ok with breaking. That is the ONLY reason I think we do have some level of obligation to help the people of that region.
    Maladroit23 likes this.
    10-08-2014 09:15 PM
  7. SteveISU's Avatar
    The right has no problem about talking about debt when it comes to the health of the American public. I guarantee you that lack of quality healthcare has killed more Americans than ISIS will EVER kill. Lets look at guns, I don't hear the right addressing all the gun deaths in America. The only reason the right wing loves perpetuating the threat of ISIS is that it means more defense spending.

    I still think that we have no business in Iraq and if it weren't for the poor foreign policy of the previous administration, we wouldn't have ISIS to contend with right now. At this point we're obligated to help fix what GWB was perfectly ok with breaking. That is the ONLY reason I think we do have some level of obligation to help the people of that region.
    Stick to one topic and let's not keep moving the goal posts. Last I checked the United States governments #1 priority to its people is the defense of this nation.
    10-08-2014 09:17 PM
  8. anon8126715's Avatar
    Stick to one topic and let's not keep moving the goal posts. Last I checked the United States governments #1 priority to its people is the defense of this nation.
    Why stick to the only one topic if we're really concerned for American lives? Why not address whatever does the most Americans the most harm? Is it maybe because the whole ISIS thing isn't really as big a deal as some of the "chicken littles" in the GOP claim it is?

    "BEFORE WE ALL GET KILLED BACK HOME!!" Really?

    10-09-2014 07:49 PM
  9. Maladroit23's Avatar
    Why stick to the only one topic if we're really concerned for American lives? Why not address whatever does the most Americans the most harm? Is it maybe because the whole ISIS thing isn't really as big a deal as some of the "chicken littles" in the GOP claim it is?

    "BEFORE WE ALL GET KILLED BACK HOME!!" Really?
    ISIS isn't exactly a storm in a tea cup. We can give equal time to them, as well as other threats to our nation's well-being. It's not a one-or-the-other choice.
    10-09-2014 08:11 PM
  10. Maladroit23's Avatar
    I don't care if you are a pathetic weak minded man who pees sitting down, when it comes to the image and front you project to the rest of the world on where the US stands, it is that our security and the safety/freedom of others around the globe will be met with the utmost force if you challenge us. You want to use whatever back channel talks after the fact, so be it, it happens all the time. But this nation, for all our goods, cannot be viewed as weak. We sure as hell can't have our President drawing lines in the sand left and right and having everyone cross them with no consequence.
    Um, who says Obama doesn't check our enemies when they cross the line? He placed sanctions on Russia for Putin's land grabbing. He executed the leader of Al Qaeda, not to mention innumerable drone strikes on other militant Islamists. He's using tactical airstrikes in Iraq and Syria as a response to ISIS's advances, which doesn't count for nothing even if it's not as effective without the implementation of ground troops.

    What more do you want from the guy? War with Russia?
    10-09-2014 08:19 PM
  11. anon8126715's Avatar
    Um, who says Obama doesn't check our enemies when they cross the line? He placed sanctions on Russia for Putin's land grabbing. He executed the leader of Al Qaeda, not to mention innumerable drone strikes on other militant Islamists. He's using tactical airstrikes in Iraq and Syria as a response to ISIS's advances, which doesn't count for nothing even if it's not as effective without the implementation of ground troops.

    What more do you want from the guy? War with Russia?
    If it helps, I think in another post he may have called Obama a tyrant......
    10-09-2014 09:27 PM
  12. SteveISU's Avatar
    Why stick to the only one topic if we're really concerned for American lives? Why not address whatever does the most Americans the most harm? Is it maybe because the whole ISIS thing isn't really as big a deal as some of the "chicken littles" in the GOP claim it is?

    "BEFORE WE ALL GET KILLED BACK HOME!!" Really?


    Our healthcare system has helped more people then it's hurt. It's saved and extended more lives that would have found themselves in the ground more times that it's put people in the ground. About 70% of physicians provide charity care in some way shape or form to those in need. We can discuss healthcare in this country, the reforms necessary to make it manageable, who should oversee it, but this isn't the thread to do it in.

    As far as what the GOP claims are regarding the threat of ISIL, the same claims are coming out of the democratic party just the same. Many Senate democrats have urged Obama to get hawkish in regards to ISIL
    10-10-2014 09:43 AM
  13. SteveISU's Avatar
    If it helps, I think in another post he may have called Obama a tyrant......
    It would help if you had a smidgen of honesty. I've never called Obama a tyrant, feel free to weed through 763 posts of mine.
    10-10-2014 09:45 AM
  14. SteveISU's Avatar
    Um, who says Obama doesn't check our enemies when they cross the line? He placed sanctions on Russia for Putin's land grabbing. He executed the leader of Al Qaeda, not to mention innumerable drone strikes on other militant Islamists. He's using tactical airstrikes in Iraq and Syria as a response to ISIS's advances, which doesn't count for nothing even if it's not as effective without the implementation of ground troops.

    What more do you want from the guy? War with Russia?
    There were no "lines drawn" when it came to getting Bin Laden, if there were they were drawn by Bush. People who have worked for him have firmly criticized him for allowing the word of the US government to be bucked and the damage that causes for our credibility. For drawing lines and watching others cross them. We're talking about when the POTUS makes a declarative statement that there will be consequences if so and so does XYZ and the consequences are MIA, it hurts our credibility. Others don't fear a word we say any longer and that is dangerous for our national security. A simple drone strike that is carried out in a region we continue to hunt terrorists in doesn't do anything for the above issue he has with drawing lines and letting others cross them. If he doesn't know what to do, STFU until you do. Don't be afraid to ask for help, I know he has a problem with that, but it's OK if he's not the smartest person in the room. We have a president who likes to "go at it alone" and many people who are smarter than him, with more experience than him (esp in foreign affairs), have identified that as one of his problems. I would be shocked if Biden wasn't an alcoholic by now with all the "Chiefs" foreign affairs blunders.
    10-10-2014 10:01 AM
  15. Maladroit23's Avatar
    There were no "lines drawn" when it came to getting Bin Laden, if there were they were drawn by Bush. People who have worked for him have firmly criticized him for allowing the word of the US government to be bucked and the damage that causes for our credibility. For drawing lines and watching others cross them. We're talking about when the POTUS makes a declarative statement that there will be consequences if so and so does XYZ and the consequences are MIA, it hurts our credibility. Others don't fear a word we say any longer and that is dangerous for our national security. A simple drone strike that is carried out in a region we continue to hunt terrorists in doesn't do anything for the above issue he has with drawing lines and letting others cross them. If he doesn't know what to do, STFU until you do. Don't be afraid to ask for help, I know he has a problem with that, but it's OK if he's not the smartest person in the room. We have a president who likes to "go at it alone" and many people who are smarter than him, with more experience than him (esp in foreign affairs), have identified that as one of his problems. I would be shocked if Biden wasn't an alcoholic by now with all the "Chiefs" foreign affairs blunders.
    Obama took the risk of damaging already shifty relations with Pakistan by running a secret mission within their borders without their knowledge or consent. Bush started the chase but Obama didn't shy away from it. He took the reigns.

    It'll be easier to discuss this if you explain exactly which lines you think Obama has drawn that people are crossing. It sounds like you're making a general judgement about Obama's foreign policy based off Panetta's gripe.
    10-10-2014 02:06 PM
  16. anon8126715's Avatar
    Obama took the risk of damaging already shifty relations with Pakistan by running a secret mission within their borders without their knowledge or consent. Bush started the chase but Obama didn't shy away from it. He took the reigns.

    It'll be easier to discuss this if you explain exactly which lines you think Obama has drawn that people are crossing. It sounds like you're making a general judgement about Obama's foreign policy based off Panetta's gripe.
    I think he's talking about the speech that Obama made in a press conference regarding Syria.

    President Obama’s ‘Red Line’: What He Actually Said About Syria and Chemical Weapons - ABC News

    It's typical right wing BS, just an attempt to try to get Obama to follow their policies. What they fail to realize is that they lost in 2008 AND 2012, which is the American people telling them flat out that we are tired of their failed policies. We're tired of nation building, we're tired of shoot first ask questions later, and most of all we're tired of policy that sends our troops in blindly to the benefit of special interest groups.

    The 57s mark sums it up......

    10-10-2014 09:34 PM
  17. Scott7217's Avatar
    Are we talking if/when ISIS is defeated or are we talking about during the campaign against ISIS?
    I was mainly concerned about what would happen if the coalition falls apart before ISIS is defeated. Allied countries may drop support for many reasons: receiving too many casualties on the battlefield, change in leadership, waning public support, and so on.

    If the allies leave before ISIS is defeated, should the US continue the fight, even if it must go on alone?
    10-10-2014 11:06 PM
  18. palandri's Avatar
    I was mainly concerned about what would happen if the coalition falls apart before ISIS is defeated. Allied countries may drop support for many reasons: receiving too many casualties on the battlefield, change in leadership, waning public support, and so on.

    If the allies leave before ISIS is defeated, should the US continue the fight, even if it must go on alone?
    No.
    10-11-2014 08:49 AM
  19. anon8126715's Avatar
    I was mainly concerned about what would happen if the coalition falls apart before ISIS is defeated. Allied countries may drop support for many reasons: receiving too many casualties on the battlefield, change in leadership, waning public support, and so on.

    If the allies leave before ISIS is defeated, should the US continue the fight, even if it must go on alone?
    No.
    What the pinko said (and by Pinko I mean I'm guessing Palandri supports breast cancer research on breast cancer month Ukraine (and Russia)-10751077-cancer-awareness-pink-ribbon-over-white-background-drop-shadow.jpg )

    There will always be a terroristic threat. When the U.S. tries to take it upon itself to meet terror head on, all it does is seems to put a target on our back. Eventually the terrorists will find a way to get here and all it does is ramps up hysteria. What we're doing is becoming a crutch for the rest of the world to sit idly by, "We'll just wait for the Americans to come clean this mess". Look at what took place in Iraq. They elected a leader that decided he wanted to oppress the minority group in his country. That oppression boiled over into the creation of ISIS/ISIL. Now they're desperate for our help. Lets focus on how this terror started and try to stop the next group from coming into power in the first place. The U.S. seems to have short term memory loss when it comes to these types of incursions. We need to stop trying to put out all these fires with gasoline (drone attacks that only enrage people more) and take a more intellectual and rational course.
    palandri likes this.
    10-11-2014 09:31 AM
  20. palandri's Avatar
    What the pinko said (and by Pinko I mean I'm guessing Palandri supports breast cancer research on breast cancer month Click image for larger version. 

Name:	10751077-cancer-awareness-pink-ribbon-over-a-white-background-with-drop-shadow.jpg 
Views:	26 
Size:	5.1 KB 
ID:	140547 )

    There will always be a terroristic threat. When the U.S. tries to take it upon itself to meet terror head on, all it does is seems to put a target on our back. Eventually the terrorists will find a way to get here and all it does is ramps up hysteria. What we're doing is becoming a crutch for the rest of the world to sit idly by, "We'll just wait for the Americans to come clean this mess". Look at what took place in Iraq. They elected a leader that decided he wanted to oppress the minority group in his country. That oppression boiled over into the creation of ISIS/ISIL. Now they're desperate for our help. Lets focus on how this terror started and try to stop the next group from coming into power in the first place. The U.S. seems to have short term memory loss when it comes to these types of incursions. We need to stop trying to put out all these fires with gasoline (drone attacks that only enrage people more) and take a more intellectual and rational course.
    Say anything that doesn't praise private enterprise as a deity and you'll be labeled a pinko.

    Here's something to think about. I was watching the Anthony Bourdain episode on Shanghai, China and at one point he's eating with a U.S. education Chinese Economist and he asked why the China economy is doing so well. The Economist said that China doesn't have the enemies and wars like the U.S. has so they aren't spending the billions on a war machine that the U.S. does.
    10-11-2014 10:20 AM
  21. anon8126715's Avatar
    Say anything that doesn't praise private enterprise as a deity and you'll be labeled a pinko.

    Here's something to think about. I was watching the Anthony Bourdain episode on Shanghai, China and at one point he's eating with a U.S. education Chinese Economist and he asked why the China economy is doing so well. The Economist said that China doesn't have the enemies and wars like the U.S. has so they aren't spending the billions on a war machine that the U.S. does.
    Not that I want to use China as a shining example of what the U.S. can become (especially since it can be argued that their enemies are their own citizens that they wage war on via worker exploitation), but it can be argued that the former USSR's collapse came because of all their resources going towards their nuclear buildup. I guess I can see why our government is so fanatical about weapons and war mongering when you see how many of our citizens are paranoid gun nuts.
    10-11-2014 11:15 AM
  22. Scott7217's Avatar
    No.
    You've basically described one of the strategies that ISIS could use to stop the US.

    If ISIS can make the war unpopular in the countries that are US allies, those countries will leave the coalition. If the US stops fighting ISIS because the coalition falls apart, then ISIS gets an opportunity to regroup and recover from its losses.
    10-11-2014 11:19 AM
  23. anon8126715's Avatar
    You've basically described one of the strategies that ISIS could use to stop the US.

    If ISIS can make the war unpopular in the countries that are US allies, those countries will leave the coalition. If the US stops fighting ISIS because the coalition falls apart, then ISIS gets an opportunity to regroup and recover from its losses.
    The U.S. then needs to let these countries know that they face a greater threat from ISIS/ISIL from a geographical perspective, and if these other countries want to continue to receive U.S. support then these countries need to take this threat serious. I understand that Turkey will quite possibly be the first country next country (since Iraq was technically the first) to decide how dedicated they are to keeping this type of threat at bay.
    10-11-2014 11:55 AM
  24. palandri's Avatar
    You've basically described one of the strategies that ISIS could use to stop the US.

    If ISIS can make the war unpopular in the countries that are US allies, those countries will leave the coalition. If the US stops fighting ISIS because the coalition falls apart, then ISIS gets an opportunity to regroup and recover from its losses.
    I am more concerned about issues we have within the United States. Do you really think ISIS is going to travel across the Atlantic ocean and invade the U.S.? France? Spain? Italy?

    How big do you think ISIS is? One battalion (800 soldiers), just one, not two, of any U.S. infantry unit could wipe ISIS off the map. What do you think the motivation is to continue this war against ISIS?
    Scott7217 likes this.
    10-11-2014 12:35 PM
  25. anon8126715's Avatar
    I am more concerned about issues we have within the United States. Do you really think ISIS is going to travel across the Atlantic ocean and invade the U.S.? France? Spain? Italy?

    How big do you think ISIS is? One battalion (800 soldiers), just one, not two, of any U.S. infantry unit could wipe ISIS off the map. What do you think the motivation is to continue this war against ISIS?
    The right wing is quite motivated with this threat. Granted, they're the party of emotion and fear.
    palandri and A895 like this.
    10-11-2014 04:30 PM
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