04-15-2014 04:39 PM
77 1234
tools
  1. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Here's an example.

    A close friend of mine has 3 boys. The oldest graduated high school with a 3.7, never struggled with school. He is in college in Colorado and is getting student loans and will be in debt when he graduates. He is self supporting, his parents cannot help him at this time. Not the greatest way to start out in life, but it's what he has to do.

    Her middle son graduated last year, barely. He's a good kid, loves to work with his hands (matter of fact he's helping me around the house next week because he can't find a job and I'd rather pay him than a stranger). He's good with mechanics but he cannot find a job with a high school diploma in the mechanical field of any kind. He graduated with a 2.0 after some extra classes in 12th grade. He would be able to benefit from the TN program by entering a mechanical trades school but by your standards, it would be wasted on him. He had planned to go to one of the technical schools, but tuition was $35000 for a 18 month certificate program (not including room and board). His family cannot afford it, yet he would benefit tremendously if he could attend any similar trade school.


    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    And maybe he would be successful, but maybe he wouldn't. Either way, how many others would treat the program like the 13th grade because someone told them to and then just flunk out because there was no initial standard? That money could have gone to kids that would have actually benefited from it. I have known lots of kids to flunk out of community college paying for it themselves just because they did not take it seriously and had no drive to actually try. There has to be some sort gauge for who gets the "free" money. It does not grow on trees despite our government printing it like it does.
    04-09-2014 02:58 PM
  2. msndrstood's Avatar
    And maybe he would be successful, but maybe he wouldn't. Either way, how many others would treat the program like the 13th grade because someone told them to and then just flunk out because there was no initial standard? That money could have gone to kids that would have actually benefited from it. I have known lots of kids to flunk out of community college paying for it themselves just because they did not take it seriously and had no drive to actually try. There has to be some sort gauge for who gets the "free" money. It does not grow on trees despite our government printing it like it does.
    I think the problem for you and some others is the word 'free'.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    04-09-2014 03:00 PM
  3. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I think the problem for you and some others is the word 'free'.

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    I have no issue with anyone getting the funding that proves they are capable of making use of it. Just like I would not pay for my own child to go to college if I thought they would flunk out the first year.

    I don't understand why in order to be a "good" program, it has to be completely void of requirements. Maybe we should take away all requirements for welfare. That way everyone can get the funding whether they need it or not.
    04-09-2014 03:11 PM
  4. msndrstood's Avatar
    That's where we are different. I would pay for my child to go, if they flunk the first semester, it then becomes their responsibility. I would rather give everyone the benefit of the doubt than to refuse that child that needs a break to succeed.

    It sounds like you need to address this with the legislators in your state if you want to see changes to the program. Maybe you could even ask them what their rationale for the non requirements were when they set up the program. Just a thought. I don't think debating it on AC is going to help get the results you hoped for. 😊

    Sent via The Big, Bad, Beautiful Note 3
    A895 likes this.
    04-09-2014 04:10 PM
  5. A895's Avatar
    A dollar a day, ~$30/mo, can provide you with at least 3 good meals for a family, likely more if you really stretch it and have leftovers. That could also be extra used to pay down a credit card faster. Or car loan. Or put into a Christmas fund to give the kids a lot better selection of presents. Take your pick, there's lots of better uses for that money. That's assuming you're playing the cheap $1 tickets. Those are getting less popular with states going to $2-5 tickets. I've seen some for $10 before. Depending what article you read and survey base, average yearly lotto spending can be $500-600 or more per person. That's a lot of money for those most likely to buy them.
    And? So now we have to dictate how people spend their money?

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-09-2014 04:10 PM
  6. A895's Avatar
    I have no issue with anyone getting the funding that proves they are capable of making use of it. Just like I would not pay for my own child to go to college if I thought they would flunk out the first year.

    I don't understand why in order to be a "good" program, it has to be completely void of requirements. Maybe we should take away all requirements for welfare. That way everyone can get the funding whether they need it or not.
    That's not a bad idea. I would like some food stamps.

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-09-2014 04:29 PM
  7. A895's Avatar
    If you were going to donate money out of your own pocket to send a college, would you choose to give it to the kid that passed with a D or the kid with the 4.0? It has nothing to do with having issues with anyone. It is about ensuring that the funding is spent in the most effective and beneficial way. There is only so much money to be spent.

    I agree. This is a great way to fill the work force with more skilled laborers, but if half the kids drop out the first year and never benefit from the program, it is money wasted that could be better spent elsewhere. Give it to the kids that try hard in high school. That way the program has the best chance of being effective. If there is money left over, lower the standards. If there is not enough funding, raise them. Simple as that.
    A lot of times those who try the hardest can fail. This ensures everyone has a chance to go regardless.

    Posted via Android Central App
    msndrstood likes this.
    04-09-2014 04:31 PM
  8. A895's Avatar
    I graduated from a high school in TN.

    You had to pass tests in specific courses, but there was no exit exam or anything of the sort. I had taken and passed all the required tests by the end of my sophomore year. You of course have to pass classes to get all your credits, but the required courses are not known for their level of difficulty we will say. You were not there if you didn't pass.
    Level of difficulty depends on the state. Georgia is not as advanced as say NY with regards to class content (went to high school in both). Tennessee wants to make a difference, let them.

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-09-2014 04:33 PM
  9. Mooncatt's Avatar
    And? So now we have to dictate how people spend their money?

    Posted via Android Central App
    No, you pointed out how you thought playing lotto doesn't amount to much. I just took your numbers and showed how that money could be better spent than on something that isn't likely to pay you back. I never said we should force them to do anything, so that's just putting words in my keyboard.
    04-09-2014 04:35 PM
  10. A895's Avatar
    No, you pointed out how you thought playing lotto doesn't amount to much. I just took your numbers and showed how that money could be better spent than on something that isn't likely to pay you back. I never said we should force them to do anything, so that's just putting words in my keyboard.
    And? They more than likely aren't thinking "wow that's $30 I could be saving a month!". It still does not add up to much (and that is assuming they play the lotto everyday).

    Posted via Android Central App
    Mooncatt likes this.
    04-09-2014 04:57 PM
  11. nolittdroid's Avatar
    So I'm getting the impression that only rich kids are entitled to college. Because sending kids to college is frivolous and wasteful.

    Get real, conservatives are going to ruin education as we know it.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    04-09-2014 05:34 PM
  12. Mooncatt's Avatar
    And? They more than likely aren't thinking "wow that's $30 I could be saving a month!". It still does not add up to much (and that is assuming they play the lotto everyday).
    $30 is more than you think when you're not making much. And that's the low end. What about the people spending twice as much or more. You want to help people, but yet when I point out how people can do better with the money they already have, you dismiss it. Why is that?


    So I'm getting the impression that only rich kids are entitled to college. Because sending kids to college is frivolous and wasteful.
    Is it really so bad to expect kids to show some real effort before paying for their college?
    04-09-2014 05:46 PM
  13. A895's Avatar
    $30 is more than you think when you're not making much. And that's the low end. What about the people spending twice as much or more. You want to help people, but yet when I point out how people can do better with the money they already have, you dismiss it. Why is that?
    More than I think? If you read a couple posts before I was actually there before. Taking the bus with my mom when she didn't couldn't afford a car. Having a car and then it getting stolen overnight and then found on the side of the freeway. Living in the projects/hood for most of my time in elementary school and most of high school. I know very well how much $30 is. But listen to me when I say you don't see $30 until a month later. All you see then is $1 is not going to hurt just to play the lottery today.

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-09-2014 06:00 PM
  14. A895's Avatar
    Is it really so bad to expect kids to show some real effort before paying for their college?
    They already showed effort by passing high school. What else do you want from them? They are trying to get an education to be a more productive member of society. 2 years of community college is better than nothing.

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-09-2014 06:02 PM
  15. NoYankees44's Avatar
    A lot of times those who try the hardest can fail. This ensures everyone has a chance to go regardless.

    Posted via Android Central App
    In a perfect world where there is unlimited money, that sounds like a great idea.
    04-09-2014 06:13 PM
  16. Mooncatt's Avatar
    But listen to me when I say you don't see $30 until a month later. All you see then is $1 is not going to hurt just to play the lottery today.
    It sounds like you're saying it's ok to throw away a dollar or two a day but holding on to it and throwing it all away at the end of the month is not. Am I reading you right? When you look at the odds of a lottery, that's pretty much what's happening. So I'll ask again a different way, why do you seem to like giving people more of other people's money without asking anything in return, but seem so against helping them do more with what they do have?

    They already showed effort by passing high school.
    Passing high school doesn't take a lot of effort. Eeking by with a D average doesn't sound like a very scholarly objective of a scholarship to me.
    04-09-2014 06:28 PM
  17. toober's Avatar
    You talk like a person who has never actually struggled.
    I have struggled very much in the past. I am currently struggling to make it from one payday to the next. Thing is, my struggles are my own and I will deal with them on my own without asking someone to dig a little deeper into someone else's pocket to ease my burden. I created this family, not the government. It is MY responsibility to feed, clothe, and house MY children. I have had to make many hard choices, but they are mine to make. I know the value of a dollar because I know that every drop of sweat, every pulled muscle, every missed dinner was traded for that dollar. I have been in a position of having to choose what my last dollar was to be spent on and know how much Ramen it takes to feed a family of five. I do not talk like a person that has not struggled, but like someone that accepts his struggles as his own and knows that he has no right to what was earned by another person.
    Now we can argue semantics all day, but its not a tax on the poor. People play the lottery on the hopes of striking it big, and being able to "make it". A dollar a day for a lottery ticket is nothing compared to the cost of living, putting food on the tablet, and taking care of a family. A dollar a day....I mean *sigh*. Of course a person with more money values a dollar less than someone who is broke. But anyone rich or poor can find a dollar to hope that they make some free money. It's like..... I can't even explain how ridiculous a notion this is.
    The value of a dollar is not determined by what it will buy, but what was given to get it. A person that works for their money values it much more than someone that does not. It does not matter if that person is rich or poor. When a man(not discounting women, as I know that many women work as hard if not harder than men, man just being a convenient pronoun instead of using man/woman at every instance) receives his paycheck, he knows exactly what was traded for it. He has traded his time, his labor, and his mind. What he chooses to spend that money on is a direct reflection of the value he has placed on his time. When he goes into a store, he knows how much of his life was sacrificed to purchase what is in his cart. This is not the case with unearned money. Be it money from a trust fund or a welfare check, money that is not earned does not have the same value. A person spending money that was not earned by himself will not spend the same because he has no concept of what was traded or sacrificed for it. The person spending unearned money will spend it more frivolously because he knows that someone else will always make more while a man spending money he has earned knows what it will take to replace what he spends.

    That dollar that you think is so easy for anyone to come by does not mean the same thing to everyone. To some people, it may not mean anything, but to others, it may mean everything. There is a reason so many poor people stay poor while others rise out of poverty and become successful. Most of the time, it is simply that those who rise above their surroundings know the true value of a dollar.
    04-09-2014 06:54 PM
  18. oz123's Avatar
    This is a very positive initiative by TN, investing in the future of their youth. Giving the next generation the opportunity to learn,and gain more beneficial employement, without the burden of debt,is very honorable.
    A895 and msndrstood like this.
    04-09-2014 07:51 PM
  19. A895's Avatar
    It sounds like you're saying it's ok to throw away a dollar or two a day but holding on to it and throwing it all away at the end of the month is not. Am I reading you right? When you look at the odds of a lottery, that's pretty much what's happening. So I'll ask again a different way, why do you seem to like giving people more of other people's money without asking anything in return, but seem so against helping them do more with what they do have?


    Passing high school doesn't take a lot of effort. Eeking by with a D average doesn't sound like a very scholarly objective of a scholarship to me.
    Its the lottery. People have been throwing their money away on the lottery and now its a problem because it funds free education?

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-09-2014 08:16 PM
  20. A895's Avatar
    In a perfect world where there is unlimited money, that sounds like a great idea.
    Its coming from the lottery money not tax money.

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-09-2014 08:17 PM
  21. A895's Avatar
    I have struggled very much in the past. I am currently struggling to make it from one payday to the next. Thing is, my struggles are my own and I will deal with them on my own without asking someone to dig a little deeper into someone else's pocket to ease my burden. I created this family, not the government. It is MY responsibility to feed, clothe, and house MY children. I have had to make many hard choices, but they are mine to make. I know the value of a dollar because I know that every drop of sweat, every pulled muscle, every missed dinner was traded for that dollar. I have been in a position of having to choose what my last dollar was to be spent on and know how much Ramen it takes to feed a family of five. I do not talk like a person that has not struggled, but like someone that accepts his struggles as his own and knows that he has no right to what was earned by another person.

    The value of a dollar is not determined by what it will buy, but what was given to get it. A person that works for their money values it much more than someone that does not. It does not matter if that person is rich or poor. When a man(not discounting women, as I know that many women work as hard if not harder than men, man just being a convenient pronoun instead of using man/woman at every instance) receives his paycheck, he knows exactly what was traded for it. He has traded his time, his labor, and his mind. What he chooses to spend that money on is a direct reflection of the value he has placed on his time. When he goes into a store, he knows how much of his life was sacrificed to purchase what is in his cart. This is not the case with unearned money. Be it money from a trust fund or a welfare check, money that is not earned does not have the same value. A person spending money that was not earned by himself will not spend the same because he has no concept of what was traded or sacrificed for it. The person spending unearned money will spend it more frivolously because he knows that someone else will always make more while a man spending money he has earned knows what it will take to replace what he spends.

    That dollar that you think is so easy for anyone to come by does not mean the same thing to everyone. To some people, it may not mean anything, but to others, it may mean everything. There is a reason so many poor people stay poor while others rise out of poverty and become successful. Most of the time, it is simply that those who rise above their surroundings know the true value of a dollar.
    This is money someone threw away on the lottery a mong time ago. You have to talk to the people now still doing it.

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-09-2014 08:20 PM
  22. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Its coming from the lottery money not tax money.

    Posted via Android Central App
    There is a limit to those funds like any funds. If that limit is adequate it meet the demands of this program and also the scholarship program that is also funded by the lottery is yet to be seen.
    04-09-2014 08:29 PM
  23. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Its the lottery. People have been throwing their money away on the lottery and now its a problem because it funds free education?
    It's always been an issue. What makes this different is that it's no longer a scholarship, but full on free money to any high school graduate regardless of merit. There's no longer any built in checks to help at least funnel the money to the students most deserving.

    But since you keep dodging my direct question, I'm going to guess that you have no answer and that you somehow believe simply giving people more money will make their lives better than teaching them how to better handle the money they do have (and thus any extra money they get, earned or otherwise).
    toober likes this.
    04-09-2014 08:46 PM
  24. A895's Avatar
    There is a limit to those funds like any funds. If that limit is adequate it meet the demands of this program and also the scholarship program that is also funded by the lottery is yet to be seen.
    Tell that to those in charge. Its happening.

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-09-2014 09:07 PM
  25. A895's Avatar
    It's always been an issue. What makes this different is that it's no longer a scholarship, but full on free money to any high school graduate regardless of merit. There's no longer any built in checks to help at least funnel the money to the students most deserving.

    But since you keep dodging my direct question, I'm going to guess that you have no answer and that you somehow believe simply giving people more money will make their lives better than teaching them how to better handle the money they do have (and thus any extra money they get, earned or otherwise).
    This program makes everyone get a chance at college regardless and it ups college graduation rates which is the end game.

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-09-2014 09:13 PM
77 1234

Similar Threads

  1. Click date / time to add calendar event
    By Cyberdelia in forum HTC One M8
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-11-2014, 01:19 PM
  2. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-09-2014, 11:01 PM
  3. Galaxy S5: Pedometer and temperature sensor?
    By eyecon82 in forum Samsung Galaxy S5
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-08-2014, 06:17 PM
  4. Sandboxing all apps - Nexus 5 - Modding for complete control
    By dickgrayson in forum Android Security Talk
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-08-2014, 09:43 AM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-08-2014, 09:15 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD