05-02-2014 08:34 PM
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  1. GadgetGator's Avatar
    U do realize that whole them using women as sheilds was a false story right ? Get your facts first please stop spreading false info

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk
    You do realize that I've seen news broadcast video of these plans, right? It's s little difficult to make the false story claim when such quotes are captured on video in interviews.

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-20-2014 09:28 AM
  2. palandri's Avatar
    This isn't 1776. In this day and age, if you don't like a federal law or a federal ruling, you don't take up arms against the government, you work to change the law or the ruling. These people think anything federal is part of this imaginary plot by globalist with unmarked black helicopters to enslave the world and wipe out any freedom.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    04-20-2014 09:55 AM
  3. NoYankees44's Avatar
    This isn't 1776. In this day and age, if you don't like a federal law or a federal ruling, you don't take up arms against the government, you work to change the law or the ruling. These people think anything federal is part of this imaginary plot by globalist with unmarked black helicopters to enslave the world and wipe out any freedom.
    And this is why, when the government truly does overstep it's bounds, we will bend over and it, and the only way to transfer the power back to the people will be massive bloodshed. The line will be long sense too far crossed.

    Any display of power in of this magnitude should ALWAYS be questioned. Where is the investigation? Where is the fear and outcry? Why is the government not being questioned? Why are the ones asking these questions being labeled as "ultra conservatives" and nut jobs?

    Were the people that showed up with arms in the wrong and idiots? Probably. But what is worse? Questioning a large scale operation by the federal government that involved a huge display of force and cost the tax payers over a million dollars, or being mad at a citizen that does not like the federal government and has been ALLOWED by that same government to supposedly break the law for over 20 years and has up until now gone mostly unchecked.

    There is no over site. There is no one to answer to. There is only the huge display of force over a man letting his cows eat federal grass and The People screaming about the wrong thing. I won't even care to tell the ignorant "I told you so" when the government does the same thing to them. Anyone that questions the flow of power will long sense be discredited by the government and he media that they manipulate.
    04-20-2014 03:29 PM
  4. GadgetGator's Avatar
    And this is why, when the government truly does overstep it's bounds, we will bend over and it, and the only way to transfer the power back to the people will be massive bloodshed. The line will be long sense too far crossed.

    Any display of power in of this magnitude should ALWAYS be questioned. Where is the investigation? Where is the fear and outcry? Why is the government not being questioned? Why are the ones asking these questions being labeled as "ultra conservatives" and nut jobs?

    Were the people that showed up with arms in the wrong and idiots? Probably. But what is worse? Questioning a large scale operation by the federal government that involved a huge display of force and cost the tax payers over a million dollars, or being mad at a citizen that does not like the federal government and has been ALLOWED by that same government to supposedly break the law for over 20 years and has up until now gone mostly unchecked.

    There is no over site. There is no one to answer to. There is only the huge display of force over a man letting his cows eat federal grass and The People screaming about the wrong thing. I won't even care to tell the ignorant "I told you so" when the government does the same thing to them. Anyone that questions the flow of power will long sense be discredited by the government and he media that they manipulate.
    Nonsense. The only way the same thing would happen to us is if we didn't pay our fees too. Stop defending lawbreakers who don't deserve it. Why should this man be able to use someone else's property free of charge without permission? That's called trespassing.

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-20-2014 08:45 PM
  5. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Nonsense. The only way the same thing would happen to us is if we didn't pay our fees too. Stop defending lawbreakers who don't deserve it. Why should this man be able to use someone else's property free of charge without permission? That's called trespassing.

    Posted via Android Central App
    I never defended him, but you have the habit of not reading my posts(like now), so I am not sure why I am being curious and reading yours.
    04-20-2014 08:54 PM
  6. GadgetGator's Avatar
    I never defended him, but you have the habit of not reading my posts(like now), so I am not sure why I am being curious and reading yours.
    Unless you are looking over my shoulder, you have no way of knowing what I do and do not read. That being said, I read all the post I reply to. Why do you think I don't?

    And you still haven't answered my question. Why should this guy be able to use other's land without paying? While a rather large response yes, at some point you say enough is enough. As for the cost, him not paying has already cost taxpayers a million. Yet I see no complaints about that cost. Why?

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-21-2014 10:57 AM
  7. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Unless you are looking over my shoulder, you have no way of knowing what I do and do not read. That being said, I read all the post I reply to. Why do you think I don't?

    And you still haven't answered my question. Why should this guy be able to use other's land without paying? While a rather large response yes, at some point you say enough is enough. As for the cost, him not paying has already cost taxpayers a million. Yet I see no complaints about that cost. Why?

    Posted via Android Central App
    If you actually read and comprehended my post you would see that I never defended him. The only thing I said that could be misconstrued into defending him is that it took the government 20 years to actually doing anything substantial about it.

    The "costs" he accrued are being reported as both lost fees and penalties. Assuming that the penalties are like every other legal penalties I have ever delt with, I am sure that the penalties are the vast majority of that sum. Penalties are made up figures designed to deter. They are not direct costs from the tax payers.

    The strike operation to get this guy's cattle was reported to cost 980k. That was only for the strike operation. Not all the fees to organize the operation and pay all the government agents to stake out for several days and all the other nameless costs. I would speculate the actual cost to the tax payers is closer to 2 million, so this is a net loss no matter what. Even if they end up getting 100% of the fees out of him and force him to pay all of the court costs accrued by both sides.

    As I already stated, this was not about the tax payers. This was either a display of power or a grossly mishandled operation. 20 years of little action followed by a massive display of force shows incompetence.

    And this is all assuming Bundy is completely at fault. I don't pretend to know if he is or not. Every article is so bias one way or the other it is impossible to get a clear idea of the chain of events. But people like yourself don't care what really happened. All you care about is making a bunch of people with guns look bad in order to further your own agenda.



    Point is, remember what power you have given your government. Then remember how historically trustworthy governments are. All it takes is a small group of evil people and a country of sheep for something terrible to happen. The more power that is given to the government, the more easily that power is abused and the harder it is to take it back. Give your government only the power that is necessary and keep it on a short leash with high consequences for abuse.
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    04-21-2014 01:58 PM
  8. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Doing some research :
    Brundy paid grazing fees from 1954 to 1993. In 1993 he determined that the federal government was not up keeping the land, but rather the state was, so he stopped paying the feds and tried to petition and pay the state for grazing rights. The state of course did not take his fees.

    1993 he lost his case to pay the state. 1994 he lost his permit. 2013 he lost in court again. 2014 the feds showed up with guns and helicopters and took his cattle until armed men showed up and forced them to stop operations.

    What happened in between 1994 and 2013 I do not know.

    I also am not sure when the federal government actually took control of the property. It looks like 1954, but I am not sure.


    Legally, the man has little to stand on. He may have some merit on principal depending on the details of the federal takeover and upkeep of the land, but legally he screwed.


    None of this distracts from the federal government's horrible mismanagement of this case and the gross misuse of power and funds...
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    04-21-2014 03:13 PM
  9. Timelessblur's Avatar
    if I had to guess what happen is several pending court cases and him ignoring warning and threats. They finally took him to court in 2013 and after he lost he geared up. Then the crazies super far right came to his defense with guns.

    As for what happen between several years of ignoring warning and do not forget about the court case which more than likely added some more. Still does not cover the entire 20 years. Chances are at some point he pissed off some lower level guy and start kicking it up the chain or the value cross a certain level and things changed again.
    04-21-2014 04:50 PM
  10. anon8126715's Avatar
    If this plays out like another "David Koresh/Branched Davidians" thing, I wonder if the fringe nuts will react with even more volatility since their paranoia seems to be at a fevered pitch with a "black-muslim-socialist-hitler-like-yet-too-passive-to-confront-Putin" type President in office.
    04-21-2014 08:50 PM
  11. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    If this plays out like another "David Koresh/Branched Davidians" thing, I wonder if the fringe nuts will react with even more volatility since their paranoia seems to be at a fevered pitch with a "black-muslim-socialist-hitler-like-yet-too-passive-to-confront-Putin" type President in office.
    I watched an interesting documentary on the David koresh thing. Its actually on youtube. They were analyzing the flir video with the guy that came up with flir. He pointed out gun fire from the fbi. The fbi testified under oath that they never fired weapons during the breach. Pretty neat documentary. The ruby ridge one is pretty neat too. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but its pretty cool.
    04-21-2014 09:43 PM
  12. GadgetGator's Avatar
    If you actually read and comprehended my post you would see that I never defended him. The only thing I said that could be misconstrued into defending him is that it took the government 20 years to actually doing anything substantial about it.

    The "costs" he accrued are being reported as both lost fees and penalties. Assuming that the penalties are like every other legal penalties I have ever delt with, I am sure that the penalties are the vast majority of that sum. Penalties are made up figures designed to deter. They are not direct costs from the tax payers.

    The strike operation to get this guy's cattle was reported to cost 980k. That was only for the strike operation. Not all the fees to organize the operation and pay all the government agents to stake out for several days and all the other nameless costs. I would speculate the actual cost to the tax payers is closer to 2 million, so this is a net loss no matter what. Even if they end up getting 100% of the fees out of him and force him to pay all of the court costs accrued by both sides.

    As I already stated, this was not about the tax payers. This was either a display of power or a grossly mishandled operation. 20 years of little action followed by a massive display of force shows incompetence.

    And this is all assuming Bundy is completely at fault. I don't pretend to know if he is or not. Every article is so bias one way or the other it is impossible to get a clear idea of the chain of events. But people like yourself don't care what really happened. All you care about is making a bunch of people with guns look bad in order to further your own agenda.



    Point is, remember what power you have given your government. Then remember how historically trustworthy governments are. All it takes is a small group of evil people and a country of sheep for something terrible to happen. The more power that is given to the government, the more easily that power is abused and the harder it is to take it back. Give your government only the power that is necessary and keep it on a short leash with high consequences for abuse.
    Don't care about what happened? What a bunch of crap. First off, you've never met me, so you don't know SQUAT about what I care about. As for "agenda", the only agenda I have in life is countering the right wing extremist who think gay people shouldn't be equal, voting rights should be restricted, healthcare should be restricted, Government shouldn't exist and guns are the solution to everything and should be passed out like candy.

    Posted via Android Central App
    palandri and msndrstood like this.
    04-22-2014 01:44 AM
  13. anon8126715's Avatar
    I watched an interesting documentary on the David koresh thing. Its actually on youtube. They were analyzing the flir video with the guy that came up with flir. He pointed out gun fire from the fbi. The fbi testified under oath that they never fired weapons during the breach. Pretty neat documentary. The ruby ridge one is pretty neat too. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but its pretty cool.

    I'm in no way saying our government isn't treacherous and without sin, but sometimes there is an overreaction given who is in office. Look at the past few years, Benghazi is some sort of elaborate cover-up that some people think is the most tragic event since 9/11, Fast and Furious is Obama arming Mexicans to undermine our citizens, Obamacare is Obama's attempt at converting our country into a socialist system. The hits just keep on coming. It's enough to make one tone death to real government treachery.
    palandri and GadgetGator like this.
    04-22-2014 05:35 AM
  14. palandri's Avatar
    I'm in no way saying our government isn't treacherous and without sin, but sometimes there is an overreaction given who is in office. Look at the past few years, Benghazi is some sort of elaborate cover-up that some people think is the most tragic event since 9/11, Fast and Furious is Obama arming Mexicans to undermine our citizens, Obamacare is Obama's attempt at converting our country into a socialist system. The hits just keep on coming. It's enough to make one tone death to real government treachery.
    Not to mention, we still haven't seen his 'real' birth certificate.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    04-22-2014 07:29 AM
  15. GadgetGator's Avatar
    Not to mention, we still haven't seen his 'real' birth certificate.
    Oh yeah...put refuting the birther crap on my "agenda" too. LOL
    palandri likes this.
    04-22-2014 10:57 AM
  16. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    I'm in no way saying our government isn't treacherous and without sin, but sometimes there is an overreaction given who is in office. Look at the past few years, Benghazi is some sort of elaborate cover-up that some people think is the most tragic event since 9/11, Fast and Furious is Obama arming Mexicans to undermine our citizens, Obamacare is Obama's attempt at converting our country into a socialist system. The hits just keep on coming. It's enough to make one tone death to real government treachery.
    I never thought that any of this was a twisted agenda of his but the outcomes were bad.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    04-22-2014 11:03 PM
  17. anon8126715's Avatar
    I never thought that any of this was a twisted agenda of his but the outcomes were bad.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I wouldn't really pin any of it on him, except for maybe Obamacare since he did push it (although the single payer option, which IMO would make the law better was killed by the GOP). I completely forgot the tea party claiming that he targeted tea party "non-profits" via the IRS.

    I still think there are more than a few people that are hyper-sensitive to him and his administration based on the color of his skin (or their perception that he's tied to the religion of Islam) despite people that adamantly insist that racism and prejudice are non-existent.

    I hope I'm around 30-40 years from now when they write stories and create movies regarding his Presidency, (which is only logical considering they have movies about Jackie Robinson) if only to see how his Presidency will be portrayed. I'm sure everything is going to be amplified in an attempt to captivate the audiences of the future. Sarah Palin's "Shuck-and-Jive" comment, the GOP's reference to him being the "welfare President", I can imagine how those types of attitudes will be portrayed in 30-40 years, just how we've progressed since the days of Jackie Robinson, the antagonists of Obama's presidency are really going to be scrutinized, for better or worse.

    Jackie Robinson on Racial Taunts — History.com Audio
    A895 and GadgetGator like this.
    04-23-2014 06:04 AM
  18. SteveISU's Avatar
    I'm in no way saying our government isn't treacherous and without sin, but sometimes there is an overreaction given who is in office. Look at the past few years, Benghazi is some sort of elaborate cover-up that some people think is the most tragic event since 9/11, Fast and Furious is Obama arming Mexicans to undermine our citizens, Obamacare is Obama's attempt at converting our country into a socialist system. The hits just keep on coming. It's enough to make one tone death to real government treachery.

    I am sure if there were a republican president the amount of lies the man and his administration told would be as easily forgotten by those on the left. Most if not all of the lies weren't gear towards twisting this country one way or another, with Obama it's all about campaign mode 24/7. It's funny how both sides like to ignore inconvenient truths.
    04-23-2014 09:25 AM
  19. SteveISU's Avatar

    I still think there are more than a few people that are hyper-sensitive to him and his administration based on the color of his skin (or their perception that he's tied to the religion of Islam) despite people that adamantly insist that racism and prejudice are non-existent.
    See I actually think there are far too many that want to pull the race card on anybody who criticizes the man. Those people are the real racists. Those people have to grasp that card for dear life because not playing it means they'd have to actually defend some of his short comings with intelligent debate.
    Serial Fordicator likes this.
    04-23-2014 09:36 AM
  20. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    I wouldn't really pin any of it on him, except for maybe Obamacare since he did push it (although the single payer option, which IMO would make the law better was killed by the GOP). I completely forgot the tea party claiming that he targeted tea party "non-profits" via the IRS.
    I think gen Wesley Clark said it best about 8 years ago. The president is commander in chief like the captain on a navy ship. If the ship runs aground while the captain is asleep, it's still the captain's fault.

    Anyone who is in his administration that makes these mistakes were never held accountable. True hillary resigned but there was no trial. Eric holder is still attorney general




    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    04-23-2014 10:45 AM
  21. SteveISU's Avatar
    I think gen Wesley Clark said it best about 8 years ago. The president is commander in chief like the captain on a navy ship. If the ship runs aground while the captain is asleep, it's still the captain's fault.

    Anyone who is in his administration that makes these mistakes were never held accountable. True hillary resigned but there was no trial. Eric holder is still attorney general

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    But they'll string Christie up for something his staff pulled in a heart beat. The difference though is Christie had the stones to admit "the buck stops here" and he's ultimately responsible as Governor even though he knew nothing about it. He then bent over and took it from the press for 2+ hours center stage. With the Obama admin, it's like a game of pong.
    04-23-2014 11:00 AM
  22. palandri's Avatar
    See I actually think there are far too many that want to pull the race card on anybody who criticizes the man. Those people are the real racists. Those people have to grasp that card for dear life because not playing it means they'd have to actually defend some of his short comings with intelligent debate.
    Criticizing his policy is one thing; I criticize a lot of his policies, but putting up YouTube videos calling him the antichrist, proof he's a Muslim, proof he is Gay, Proof Michelle is a transvestite...etc... (they are all on YouTube, go look yourself) says another thing.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    04-23-2014 11:20 AM
  23. palandri's Avatar
    I think gen Wesley Clark said it best about 8 years ago. The president is commander in chief like the captain on a navy ship. If the ship runs aground while the captain is asleep, it's still the captain's fault.

    Anyone who is in his administration that makes these mistakes were never held accountable. True hillary resigned but there was no trial. Eric holder is still attorney general
    You have to have actual evidence you can't just go by the conspiracy theories produced by Sean Hannity or Alex Jones...etc...
    04-23-2014 11:32 AM
  24. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    You have to have actual evidence you can't just go by the conspiracy theories produced by Sean Hannity or Alex Jones...etc...
    Huh? I despise alex jones and don't watch sean hannity. Dont know what you are referring to as far as "conspiracy?"

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    04-23-2014 12:18 PM
  25. SteveISU's Avatar
    Criticizing his policy is one thing; I criticize a lot of his policies, but putting up YouTube videos calling him the antichrist, proof he's a Muslim, proof he is Gay, Proof Michelle is a transvestite...etc... (they are all on YouTube, go look yourself) says another thing.
    I am talking elected officials, any nut job with a smartphone can make a youtube video. The amount of time it would take to refute them would mean we'd all be dead. There are those who would peg you a racist for criticizing his policies, him, or his administration. I'm talking elected officials are not immune to playing the race card just to get the opposition to back down. You had the DCCC playing the race card on CNN for the House Majority doing it's job in oversight.
    04-23-2014 12:23 PM
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