05-02-2014 08:34 PM
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  1. phoneaddict78's Avatar
    No. Did you take a view of my entire post?
    Yeah and I was was right apparently.

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    04-27-2014 02:36 PM
  2. A895's Avatar
    Yeah and I was was right apparently.

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    K.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    04-27-2014 03:37 PM
  3. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Sorry, I try to judge people by their actions and any known intent rather than the poorly chosen words that come out of their mouth. All I have seen in this case is that he chose to use some words that are considered offensive. I have not seen anything stating that he has ever mistreated anyone in any way. Statements made by people that know him personally say that he is a good man and is not a racist. You are right, he is an old man. In his lifetime, how many different terms have been in mainstream use for black people? Could it be that as a rancher he is out of touch with current trends and what may be considered offensive? Could it be that he is just guilty of ignorance? I know that racism exists in this country and needs to be fought every time it is encountered. Can we really compare this old man's poorly chosen words to the actions of true, hardcore racists out there?
    He's not *racist* enough for you? This comment is everything that is wrong with the GOP. No one else gets a pass for being ignorant, why does a hypocritical rancher get a pass because he "choose a few poor words?"...you'd get fired from your job for less.

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    rexxman and A895 like this.
    04-28-2014 07:40 AM
  4. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    He's not *racist* enough for you? This comment is everything that is wrong with the GOP. No one else gets a pass for being ignorant, why does a hypocritical rancher get a pass because he "choose a few poor words?"...you'd get fired from your job for less.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app

    Actually, both sides have their moments... Watch: Democrat Racism At Its Worst
    04-28-2014 01:22 PM
  5. SteveISU's Avatar
    Allen West was outright crazy. There's a reason he didn't get reelected. As for Dr. Carson, I have no idea how he managed to become a doctor because the things that come out of his mouth defy logic and common sense. Things like Obamacare is “the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery.” Really? I am sure the Asian people rounded up and put into internment camps might have a thing or two to say about that. And let's see...what is worse...people having no healthcare and dying or going bankrupt, or getting the healthcare they need? But you'll never hear Dr. Ben Carson mention those things. That would ruin his talking points.


    Now...back to the Bundy Ranch...you know...the whole subject you are supposed to be talking about in this thread. He was on CNN this morning parading a dead calf around and saying that he should be able to say things like "black boy" and "negro" and no one should be offended after all he wouldn't be offended if someone used those words on him. FACEPALM Just keep digging deeper. Unbelievable. Then a way too angry and way too defensive RNC spokesperson came on saying he was sick of getting contacted by everyone from high school journalism papers to national news networks asking for a comment each time someone makes a racist comment. Well, here's a little hint: Don't keep hooking up your car to that train and you won't be asked about it when it goes off the rails.

    But the best moment this morning, came when Crystal Wright appeared on camera. I have never liked this women because she is quite rude with constant interruptions of people and only wants to speak GOP talking points. UNTIL TODAY that is. Major props to her for not only rejecting Bundy, but for saying anyone in the GOP shouldn't have ever been involved with him in the first place. And for saying that she is tired of people in her own party only coming to her when they need help with "black outreach". Finally some candid honesty instead of talking points. I saw a grown up mature version of Crystal today that I can actually respect. A far cry from the 2012 version. I hope that continues.

    So their ideologies and your lack of agreement with them means you automatically cast them aside? To be clear, there are plenty who believe the ACA was aimed solely to control, to create another political 3rd rail that would get people to become more dependent on government and harder for anyone to vote for a candidate who would be willing to "trim the fat", that candidate would be more than likely on the right. It's no secret Obama's #1 priority is campaigning and winning at all costs, so that belief isn't that far fetched.

    His full statement:

    “Obamacare is really, I think, the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery,” Carson declared. “It is slavery in a way because it is making all of us subservient to the government.”
    Carson said the implementation of the Affordable Care Act was never about health care, only control.
    “That’s why when this administration took office it didn’t matter that the country was going off the cliff economically. All forces were directed toward getting this legislation passed,” Carson said.
    Carson also made a comparison between Obama’s health care law to former Soviet leader Vladimir Lenin.
    “Vladimir Lenin, one of the fathers of socialism and communism, said that socialized medicine is the keystone to the establishment of a socialist state,”

    As far as Bundy is concerned, I never supported his fight with the Feds. His remarks were crude and were very racially charged, however I understand his intent as it pertains to DC's control over people. He just worded it the worst possible way.
    04-28-2014 01:45 PM
  6. palandri's Avatar
    Actually, both sides have their moments... Watch: Democrat Racism At Its Worst
    That webpage is a very reliable source of information. If you go to their front page they have a homophobic article titled, "Exposed: The Left’s Push For Adult-Child Sex". I even saw a quote from the Family Research Council in the article, which is listed as a hate group by the SPLC.
    nolittdroid likes this.
    04-28-2014 03:01 PM
  7. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    That webpage is a very reliable source of information. If you go to their front page they have a homophobic article titled, "Exposed: The Left’s Push For Adult-Child Sex". I even saw a quote from the Family Research Council in the article, which is listed as a hate group by the SPLC.
    I don't know about that but a video with the actual people saying something is undeniable, unless it's ok to say things on the left that are considered racist on the right.
    Politicians are full of @#$% on both sides and are racist on both sides.
    04-28-2014 04:14 PM
  8. SteveISU's Avatar
    That webpage is a very reliable source of information. If you go to their front page they have a homophobic article titled, "Exposed: The Left’s Push For Adult-Child Sex". I even saw a quote from the Family Research Council in the article, which is listed as a hate group by the SPLC.
    It's a video of democrats in their own words, we all know they said them. It's just when some say them no one makes a fuss, when others say them you have Jesse Jackson camped on your front lawn.
    04-28-2014 05:34 PM
  9. anon8126715's Avatar
    So this guy is breaking the law because his livelihood depends on it, he doesn't care about the fences, doesn't care about the U.S. government and has weapons. I guess those people that are backing him are ok with backing illegal immigrants, especially the gun wielding drug trafficers? I really don't see any difference between him and an illegal alien that is ok with gun violence.
    04-28-2014 05:35 PM
  10. toober's Avatar
    So this guy is breaking the law because his livelihood depends on it, he doesn't care about the fences, doesn't care about the U.S. government and has weapons. I guess those people that are backing him are ok with backing illegal immigrants, especially the gun wielding drug trafficers? I really don't see any difference between him and an illegal alien that is ok with gun violence.
    And yet the people fighting hardest against him are the same ones that push for amnesty for illegal immigrants.
    04-28-2014 05:48 PM
  11. GadgetGator's Avatar
    So this guy is breaking the law because his livelihood depends on it, he doesn't care about the fences, doesn't care about the U.S. government and has weapons. I guess those people that are backing him are ok with backing illegal immigrants, especially the gun wielding drug trafficers? I really don't see any difference between him and an illegal alien that is ok with gun violence.
    That's an interesting point. If everyone felt the way Bundy does in not recognizing the federal government, then why would an illegal alien? Why would a Mexican for instance, not claim that parts of California still belong to Mexico?

    So their ideologies and your lack of agreement with them means you automatically cast them aside?
    Cast aside people that think I shouldn't have healthcare, or should go bankrupt trying to obtain it? Hell yeah I cast them aside. Because they have already cast me aside FIRST. Also it should be noted that many, if not most of these same types even, also would cast my marriage equality aside as well. So yeah, I have no qualms about casting them aside in return. An ideology is one thing. When it starts causing actual harm to me, it is quite another.

    To be clear, there are plenty who believe the ACA was aimed solely to control, to create another political 3rd rail that would get people to become more dependent on government and harder for anyone to vote for a candidate who would be willing to "trim the fat", that candidate would be more than likely on the right.
    Or it could be to..oh I don't know...provide healthcare options for people like me whose options before were no healthcare or bankruptcy? Eliminate preexisting conditions? Eliminate lifetime caps? How horrible. People should have just been left to die or be homeless I guess. If the right didn't want the ACA enacted, then they should have done something about these problems when they were in power.

    It's no secret Obama's #1 priority is campaigning and winning at all costs
    Um, isn't that every politicians goal? Of either party?
    04-28-2014 05:55 PM
  12. anon8126715's Avatar
    And yet the people fighting hardest against him are the same ones that push for amnesty for illegal immigrants.

    Which ones are the ones fighting hardest? Lets see, the ones fighting "hardest" against him are the law enforcement people that are showing up armed because he has already said that he has weapons of his own. I mean risking life and limb seems like the "hardest" to me. So you think that the law enforcement officials that are trying to get him to abide by the law are also wanting amnesty for illegal aliens, or are you just trying to create some sort of false equivalence?
    A895 and nolittdroid like this.
    04-28-2014 06:10 PM
  13. SteveISU's Avatar
    Cast aside people that think I shouldn't have healthcare, or should go bankrupt trying to obtain it? Hell yeah I cast them aside. Because they have already cast me aside FIRST. Also it should be noted that many, if not most of these same types even, also would cast my marriage equality aside as well. So yeah, I have no qualms about casting them aside in return. An ideology is one thing. When it starts causing actual harm to me, it is quite another.



    Or it could be to..oh I don't know...provide healthcare options for people like me whose options before were no healthcare or bankruptcy? Eliminate preexisting conditions? Eliminate lifetime caps? How horrible. People should have just been left to die or be homeless I guess. If the right didn't want the ACA enacted, then they should have done something about these problems when they were in power.


    Um, isn't that every politicians goal? Of either party?
    Who said you shouldn't have healthcare. If anything the "Scary right wing", has argued it shouldn't be MANDATED, that you should have the CHOICE. No one has said you shouldn't have it, as if someone we're picking winners and losers. Tone down the hyperbole because using it as loudly as you do makes the rest of your argument nothing but white noise.

    Just so we're clear, anyone in your eyes who isn't in favor of *** marriage is cast aside because that in and of itself is the defining issue for you? Regardless if they support civil unions but not gay marriage. Everything is working off that and that alone. There is no separation of that issue from any other?

    You keep using bankruptcy as a crutch for your argument, that the issue is have health insurance or become bankrupt (your words bolded). Yet, 3/4's of these so called "medical bankruptcies" involve people who HAVE insurance. lol The ACA isn't going to stop that, all the experts have stated as much. A $5000 or $10,000 deductible would likely be impossible for someone to pay back in a year if the had to go on the exchanges and qualify for subsidies in order to gain insurance.
    04-29-2014 10:18 AM
  14. GadgetGator's Avatar
    Who said you shouldn't have healthcare. If anything the "Scary right wing", has argued it shouldn't be MANDATED, that you should have the CHOICE.
    Choice? Republicans were making NO moves to change the heatlhcare system. the only move they made was to stay the course and continue the old system and allowing me to either be denied coverage or bankrupt myself with bills I could not possibly ever pay. Those were the two choices. Those would STILL be the two choices if not for Obama, the Democrats, and the ACA. Period. Any spin you do trying to say otherwise, is just that....spin. And a whole lot of hot air. It's not white noise and hyperbole buddy. It's my life situation and the reality that I have lived under.

    Just so we're clear, anyone in your eyes who isn't in favor of *** marriage is cast aside because that in and of itself is the defining issue for you? Regardless if they support civil unions but not gay marriage. Everything is working off that and that alone. There is no separation of that issue from any other?
    Not sure what *** marriage is? Care to explain?

    To your other points, first off, most of the people I have seen against gay marriage are also against civil unions because they are against gay people being recognized in the first place....but let's just set that aside for a moment. This issue has been discussed a thousand times, and I shouldn't have to be repeating it, but I'm pretty sure that you are aware that civil unions are inferior to marriage. So, asking me to accept something less, is saying that I am less of a person and that my rights don't matter as much. Basically people that try to steer towards civil unions want me to drink out of the swamp while they have a glass of Perrier served to them. Hey, it's still water, right? No....it's not the same. And those people know it's not the same which is why they push for gay people to accept less. Well, no. We will not. Also this is a rather ancient idea at this point when full gay marriages have been in the United states for one whole DECADE now. As state after state legalizes same sex marriage, why would I accept something less?

    And yes...if they don't see me a full and equal citizen then anything else they say is (to quote you) "noise". If we can't even get past the basics, if they cannot see me as an equal, then they have nothing to offer. It's like asking a black person to vote for someone that considers them 3/5 of a person. Or asking a woman to vote for men who think she is inferior in some way. Why would anyone do that? It's not just another "issue". We are talking fundamental core life things here. It's not in my best interest to vote for people like that. So I don't.

    You keep using bankruptcy as a crutch for your argument, that the issue is have health insurance or become bankrupt (your words bolded). Yet, 3/4's of these so called "medical bankruptcies" involve people who HAVE insurance. lol The ACA isn't going to stop that, all the experts have stated as much. A $5000 or $10,000 deductible would likely be impossible for someone to pay back in a year if the had to go on the exchanges and qualify for subsidies in order to gain insurance.
    Crutch? It's not a crutch, it's REALITY. $5000 or $10000 while a lot of money to some, is a HELL of a lot more affordable than a $5000 PER DAY bill for a hospital stay. At least there is a chance someone could pay those lower amounts you mentioned. But there's no chance at all that they could pay a $300,000 or a $500,000 bill.
    A895 and nolittdroid like this.
    04-29-2014 11:58 AM
  15. anon8126715's Avatar
    I just saw this guy's racist "negro" comments. Kind of funny how Faux news and the GOP tend to get behind the wrong guy. If that's not enough of a reminder for everyone to get out and vote against the candidates backed by those 2 entities, then I don't know what is.
    A895 and GadgetGator like this.
    04-30-2014 12:47 PM
  16. SteveISU's Avatar
    I just saw this guy's racist "negro" comments. Kind of funny how Faux news and the GOP tend to get behind the wrong guy. If that's not enough of a reminder for everyone to get out and vote against the candidates backed by those 2 entities, then I don't know what is.
    Let's not blur the lines, some were behind him about not bowing to the federal government. Who got behind him about his race related comments?

    What you are purporting is akin to me saying don't support gay marriage or the democrats because of a few gays in California who desecrated and vandalized Catholic Churches.

    Neither case is fair.


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    04-30-2014 07:08 PM
  17. A895's Avatar
    Let's not blur the lines, some were behind him about not bowing to the federal government. Who got behind him about his race related comments?

    What you are purporting is akin to me saying don't support gay marriage or the democrats because of a few gays in California who desecrated and vandalized Catholic Churches.

    Neither case is fair.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    To be fair, the situation you described is nothing like the one with Bundy.
    05-01-2014 06:29 AM
  18. anon8126715's Avatar
    To be fair, the situation you described is nothing like the one with Bundy.
    I think the condition is known as cognitive dissonance.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    05-01-2014 07:15 AM
  19. SteveISU's Avatar
    To be fair, the situation you described is nothing like the one with Bundy.
    It's simple, not letting one action categorize or cloud the real issue.

    I'm still waiting to hear who on the right supports his comments.

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    05-01-2014 07:30 AM
  20. A895's Avatar
    It's simple, not letting one action categorize or cloud the real issue.

    I'm still waiting to hear who on the right supports his comments.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Unfortunately saying racist remarks will certainly cloud the issue. Take a look here too:

    Cliven Bundy Destroys Fox News and Sean Hannity By Claiming They Support His Racism

    Fox News does not support Bundy anymore even though he vocalized what they were already trying to push. He still wants their "support" though.
    05-01-2014 09:10 AM
  21. SteveISU's Avatar
    Unfortunately saying racist remarks will certainly cloud the issue. Take a look here too:

    Cliven Bundy Destroys Fox News and Sean Hannity By Claiming They Support His Racism

    Fox News does not support Bundy anymore even though he vocalized what they were already trying to push. He still wants their "support" though.
    A piece from "Real liberal politics"? Really? Jason there is claiming Fox had to know what is in his head? So somehow the right is expected to be mind readers? I'd take that with a grain of salt. Some delusional old man claiming so and so is still their friend is hardly a cry of unequivocal GOP support.
    05-01-2014 09:21 AM
  22. SteveISU's Avatar
    Choice? Republicans were making NO moves to change the heatlhcare system. the only move they made was to stay the course and continue the old system and allowing me to either be denied coverage or bankrupt myself with bills I could not possibly ever pay. Those were the two choices. Those would STILL be the two choices if not for Obama, the Democrats, and the ACA. Period. Any spin you do trying to say otherwise, is just that....spin. And a whole lot of hot air. It's not white noise and hyperbole buddy. It's my life situation and the reality that I have lived under.



    Not sure what *** marriage is? Care to explain?

    To your other points, first off, most of the people I have seen against gay marriage are also against civil unions because they are against gay people being recognized in the first place....but let's just set that aside for a moment. This issue has been discussed a thousand times, and I shouldn't have to be repeating it, but I'm pretty sure that you are aware that civil unions are inferior to marriage. So, asking me to accept something less, is saying that I am less of a person and that my rights don't matter as much. Basically people that try to steer towards civil unions want me to drink out of the swamp while they have a glass of Perrier served to them. Hey, it's still water, right? No....it's not the same. And those people know it's not the same which is why they push for gay people to accept less. Well, no. We will not. Also this is a rather ancient idea at this point when full gay marriages have been in the United states for one whole DECADE now. As state after state legalizes same sex marriage, why would I accept something less?

    And yes...if they don't see me a full and equal citizen then anything else they say is (to quote you) "noise". If we can't even get past the basics, if they cannot see me as an equal, then they have nothing to offer. It's like asking a black person to vote for someone that considers them 3/5 of a person. Or asking a woman to vote for men who think she is inferior in some way. Why would anyone do that? It's not just another "issue". We are talking fundamental core life things here. It's not in my best interest to vote for people like that. So I don't.



    Crutch? It's not a crutch, it's REALITY. $5000 or $10000 while a lot of money to some, is a HELL of a lot more affordable than a $5000 PER DAY bill for a hospital stay. At least there is a chance someone could pay those lower amounts you mentioned. But there's no chance at all that they could pay a $300,000 or a $500,000 bill.
    It's a crutch when 3/4's of those who file for bankruptcy due to medical reasons have insurance. $5000 or $10000 is just the deductible. You said you worked in HR, then you know that's not even the max. They still have co-insurance and a maximum allowable per individual and family. I believe max is $12,000, if someone got a plan on the exchange and can't afford the monthly premiums and requires it to be subsidized, $12K will sink them just as fast as $300K. At that point does it matter to you how much gets discharged in court? Your pie in the sky argument that somehow because of Obama and the ACA that medical bankruptcy will lower significantly is a farce. The statistics demonstrate that, but I get where just repeating the same thing over and over again makes someone feel good, and believe me if it did I think it would be great, but it won't. It's like the argument that was made that putting people on Medicaid will lower the number of visits those folks make to the ER. No, actually the Oregon study showed their visits to the ER rose by 45%. Argument based on emotion is like banging a hollow drum if the the facts don't back up your assertions.
    05-01-2014 09:37 AM
  23. A895's Avatar
    A piece from "Real liberal politics"? Really? Jason there is claiming Fox had to know what is in his head? So somehow the right is expected to be mind readers? I'd take that with a grain of salt. Some delusional old man claiming so and so is still their friend is hardly a cry of unequivocal GOP support.
    If you watched the video it was more informational than the article. Bundy himself is being interviewed.

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    05-01-2014 09:38 AM
  24. SteveISU's Avatar
    If you watched the video it was more informational than the article. Bundy himself is being interviewed.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    I did, why do you think I said so and so claiming X is still their friend. "Hannity called you racist, repugnant, and ignorant" My god that screams support! Really getting behind that guy with those words.
    05-01-2014 10:03 AM
  25. palandri's Avatar
    The ranch is still a powder keg. All it's going to take is one simple mistake and it's going to be another Waco Texas.

    Armed Militia Backing Rancher 'Must Be Probed' Armed Militia Backing Rancher 'Must Be Probed'
    05-01-2014 11:09 AM
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