05-02-2014 08:34 PM
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  1. SteveISU's Avatar
    The ranch is still a powder keg. All it's going to take is one simple mistake and it's going to be another Waco Texas.

    Armed Militia Backing Rancher 'Must Be Probed' Armed Militia Backing Rancher 'Must Be Probed'
    Just round the guy up and put him in Jail. If I owed the government 1 million dollars I'd be in the can. Wesley Snipes did time, the guy seems spunky enough to do a nickle.
    05-01-2014 11:56 AM
  2. GadgetGator's Avatar
    It's a crutch when 3/4's of those who file for bankruptcy due to medical reasons have insurance. $5000 or $10000 is just the deductible. You said you worked in HR, then you know that's not even the max. They still have co-insurance and a maximum allowable per individual and family. I believe max is $12,000, if someone got a plan on the exchange and can't afford the monthly premiums and requires it to be subsidized, $12K will sink them just as fast as $300K. At that point does it matter to you how much gets discharged in court? Your pie in the sky argument that somehow because of Obama and the ACA that medical bankruptcy will lower significantly is a farce. The statistics demonstrate that, but I get where just repeating the same thing over and over again makes someone feel good, and believe me if it did I think it would be great, but it won't. It's like the argument that was made that putting people on Medicaid will lower the number of visits those folks make to the ER. No, actually the Oregon study showed their visits to the ER rose by 45%. Argument based on emotion is like banging a hollow drum if the the facts don't back up your assertions.
    If you don't think people could pay a $12,000 debt easier than a $300,000 or a half million one, than I don't know what to tell you. And what statistics are you referring to when you say that bankruptcy won't reduce? The ACA has barely started. I think it is too soon for anyone, on either side of the aisle to name a figure. However, I am an example of where the ACA made a difference. I know that's anecdotal, but no doubt there are plenty of other people in similar circumstances. By how much it will reduce I don't know. The significantly is your word not mine. Not sure why you are attempting to put words in my mouth.

    As to the Oregon study, it is one study from a pilot program. Previous studies that analyzed the 2006 health insurance expansion in Massachusetts found either unchanged or reduced use of emergency departments. So I would say the findings are inconclusive here on that issue. What were you saying again about facts backing up assertions??? lol

    (And am I ever going to find out what a *** marriage is?)

    Expanding Medicaid increases ER visits in Oregon study - Los Angeles Times
    05-01-2014 02:14 PM
  3. SteveISU's Avatar
    If you don't think people could pay a $12,000 debt easier than a $300,000 or a half million one, than I don't know what to tell you. And what statistics are you referring to when you say that bankruptcy won't reduce? The ACA has barely started. I think it is too soon for anyone, on either side of the aisle to name a figure. However, I am an example of where the ACA made a difference. I know that's anecdotal, but no doubt there are plenty of other people in similar circumstances. By how much it will reduce I don't know. The significantly is your word not mine. Not sure why you are attempting to put words in my mouth.

    As to the Oregon study, it is one study from a pilot program. Previous studies that analyzed the 2006 health insurance expansion in Massachusetts found either unchanged or reduced use of emergency departments. So I would say the findings are inconclusive here on that issue. What were you saying again about facts backing up assertions??? lol

    (And am I ever going to find out what a *** marriage is?)

    Expanding Medicaid increases ER visits in Oregon study - Los Angeles Times

    If you can't amass the monthly premium and require uncle sam to subsidize you, any out of pocket expense over 1/4 of your yearly salary is going to be near impossible for you to pay back. Food, car, mortgage, making sure one has HBO in their cable service plan and the latest iPhone or Galaxy are typically more important things than medical bills. I think it's great it's worked out for you. My premiums have doubled and my wifes family business will be laying off 8 people to get under the 50 employee mark.

    The Oregon study was the only randomly controlled double blind study (the holy grail of research studies). I'd say it's results hold a little more water than that from a state who also tried to jam it's universal coverage down everyone's throats. They also said it'd cost X and they blew that out of the water.
    05-01-2014 02:54 PM
  4. GadgetGator's Avatar
    If you can't amass the monthly premium and require uncle sam to subsidize you, any out of pocket expense over 1/4 of your yearly salary is going to be near impossible for you to pay back. Food, car, mortgage, making sure one has HBO in their cable service plan and the latest iPhone or Galaxy are typically more important things than medical bills.
    So cell phones are often only 100 bucks or even free with a contract, so if you are contrasting that with a medical bill, then that's a huge fail. And I still say that the cost you are describing, is easier to pay back then being completely uncovered and hit with the entire cost of a hospital stay and surgery.

    I think it's great it's worked out for you. My premiums have doubled and my wifes family business will be laying off 8 people to get under the 50 employee mark.
    So tell me, who does the work of the 8 people laid off? Hmmmmm? Somehow the work still has to get done. And no, piling it on to other people doesn't solve the problem. It just means something is getting left undone or some customer isn't getting serviced. And that companies bottom line will start suffering. Plus, people don't take kindly to threats of layoffs or surcharges just to fund people's healthcare. Just ask Olive Garden about the blowback. I guess if none of the companies customers ever find out then that is one thing. But how good could a company could be if they don't want their employees to have benefits?

    The Oregon study was the only randomly controlled double blind study (the holy grail of research studies). I'd say it's results hold a little more water than that from a state who also tried to jam it's universal coverage down everyone's throats. They also said it'd cost X and they blew that out of the water.
    Time will tell. I don't think you can project a pilot program from one state pre-ACA and say that's the way it will be in all 50 states after ACA. I think it's too soon to know that.

    (And just for you because you answered it so well (not), am I ever going to find out what a *** marriage is? You know I'm not going to stop asking, right?)
    05-01-2014 06:03 PM
  5. Aquila's Avatar
    (And just for you because you answered it so well (not), am I ever going to find out what a *** marriage is? You know I'm not going to stop asking, right?)
    It is in place for 'gay marriage'. He did speak to this in another post, however that content was deleted by moderators as part of a larger chuck of text that was deleted. I apologize for the confusion. The original post that is in also had it written out, but it was later changed to stars by him as part of a different conversation about language in the forums, etc.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    05-01-2014 06:08 PM
  6. SteveISU's Avatar
    So cell phones are often only 100 bucks or even free with a contract, so if you are contrasting that with a medical bill, then that's a huge fail. And I still say that the cost you are describing, is easier to pay back then being completely uncovered and hit with the entire cost of a hospital stay and surgery.



    So tell me, who does the work of the 8 people laid off? Hmmmmm? Somehow the work still has to get done. And no, piling it on to other people doesn't solve the problem. It just means something is getting left undone or some customer isn't getting serviced. And that companies bottom line will start suffering. Plus, people don't take kindly to threats of layoffs or surcharges just to fund people's healthcare. Just ask Olive Garden about the blowback. I guess if none of the companies customers ever find out then that is one thing. But how good could a company could be if they don't want their employees to have benefits?



    Time will tell. I don't think you can project a pilot program from one state pre-ACA and say that's the way it will be in all 50 states after ACA. I think it's too soon to know that.

    (And just for you because you answered it so well (not), am I ever going to find out what a *** marriage is? You know I'm not going to stop asking, right?)
    No I'm say that medical bills on the order of priority when it comes to monthly bills when your living paycheck to paycheck is darn near last.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    05-01-2014 06:17 PM
  7. anon8126715's Avatar
    (And am I ever going to find out what a *** marriage is?)
    I think he's talking about when a man and a woman are so fond of each other that it reaches a euphoric state of joy....I could be wrong though.....
    05-01-2014 07:01 PM
  8. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Just round the guy up and put him in Jail. If I owed the government 1 million dollars I'd be in the can. Wesley Snipes did time, the guy seems spunky enough to do a nickle.
    Not really. Al sharpton owes alot and gets invited to white house galas

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    05-01-2014 09:02 PM
  9. palandri's Avatar
    Not really. Al sharpton owes alot and gets invited to white house galas
    Why do you keep bringing Al Sharpton and the White House up? What the connection you're suggesting here?
    05-01-2014 09:31 PM
  10. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    Why do you keep bringing Al Sharpton and the White House up? What the connection you're suggesting here?
    It's not just about owing money to the government. If he helps spread the propaganda he is immune.

    Tell me, if you were against this bundy clown because he owed the government money why are you defending sharpton?

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    05-01-2014 10:51 PM
  11. palandri's Avatar
    It's not just about owing money to the government. If he helps spread the propaganda he is immune.

    Tell me, if you were against this bundy clown because he owed the government money why are you defending sharpton?
    I am not defending Sharpton. I know very little about Sharpton. It's the link you keep trying to draw between Sharpton and the White House that I don't understand. There's no proof you're putting up. Does he have an agreement with the IRS to pay the taxes he owes back? If he doesn't have an agreement to pay the IRS back and The White House is covering it up, produce proof, rather than just posting innuendos over and over.
    05-01-2014 11:10 PM
  12. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    I am not defending Sharpton. I know very little about Sharpton. It's the link you keep trying to draw between Sharpton and the White House that I don't understand. There's no proof you're putting up. Does he have an agreement with the IRS to pay the taxes he owes back? If he doesn't have an agreement to pay the IRS back and The White House is covering it up, produce proof, rather than just posting innuendos over and over.
    I just find it amazing that if you help this administration, you are pretty much bulletproof. Ever notice how he says he's going to get to the bottom of things and then holds noone accountable? Of course not. You believe everything your party tells you. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

    I agree bundy should have paid what he owed, but shouldn't this guy? Why isn't any one going crazy over him?



    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    05-01-2014 11:49 PM
  13. palandri's Avatar
    I just find it amazing that if you help this administration, you are pretty much bulletproof. Ever notice how he says he's going to get to the bottom of things and then holds noone accountable? Of course not. You believe everything your party tells you. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

    I agree bundy should have paid what he owed, but shouldn't this guy? Why isn't any one going crazy over him?
    LOL! There you go again. Where's your proof that he doesn't have an agreement with the IRS to pay the taxes he owes back? and where's your proof that the White House is covering it up?
    A895 and nolittdroid like this.
    05-02-2014 12:31 AM
  14. A895's Avatar
    So yeah to get to back on topic. That guy Bundy gonna need to get a new ranch or pay up soon.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    palandri likes this.
    05-02-2014 01:20 AM
  15. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    LOL! There you go again. Where's your proof that he doesn't have an agreement with the IRS to pay the taxes he owes back? and where's your proof that the White House is covering it up?
    Don't really have proof but as recent history has shown, being in this administration, you are bulletproof to any consequences. I would say the same if they were republican too.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    05-02-2014 10:28 AM
  16. SteveISU's Avatar
    So yeah to get to back on topic. That guy Bundy gonna need to get a new ranch or pay up soon.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    I don't know, when you read things like this it's hard to come down on the guy......


    IRS Employees Act Up, Don't Pay Taxes But Still Get Bonuses---IRS Gone Wild?

    Between October 1, 2010 and December 31, 2012, more than 2,800 IRS employees with recent bad conduct in their record received more than $2.8 million in cash awards, more than 27,000 hours in time-off awards, and 175 quality step increases in their IRS employment. Among these awards, more than 1,100 IRS employees with substantiated Federal tax compliance problems received more than $1 million in cash awards, more than 10,000 hours in time-off awards, and 69 quality step increases within a year after the IRS substantiated their tax compliance problem.
    05-02-2014 10:42 AM
  17. A895's Avatar
    I don't know, when you read things like this it's hard to come down on the guy......


    IRS Employees Act Up, Don't Pay Taxes But Still Get Bonuses---IRS Gone Wild?
    I don't care what some IRS Employees did. I am more concerned a "racist" man who owns a farm owes millions to the government and refuses to defy the law because he does not "believe" in government. I wish I could get away with owing the government large sums of money.
    05-02-2014 11:46 AM
  18. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    I don't care what some IRS Employees did. I am more concerned a "racist" man who owns a farm owes millions to the government and refuses to defy the law because he does not "believe" in government. I wish I could get away with owing the government large sums of money.
    I agree that's why I keep bringing up sharpton. A racist man that makes millions and owes millions.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    05-02-2014 12:14 PM
  19. A895's Avatar
    I agree that's why I keep bringing up sharpton. A racist man that makes millions and owes millions.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I don't give a fudge about Sharpton either. He stopped speaking for the black majority years ago (I'm black myself). He did good work for civil rights years ago but nowadays him and Jesse Jackson couldn't represent the black voice any less.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    05-02-2014 12:21 PM
  20. toober's Avatar
    I don't care what some IRS Employees did. I am more concerned a "racist" man who owns a farm owes millions to the government and refuses to defy the law because he does not "believe" in government. I wish I could get away with owing the government large sums of money.
    So the situation with Bundy is different because he is a racist that owes money? You are told that the people entrusted with your tax dollars are lying and cheating the system and all you care about is making sure they get one racist old man? Would you care more if one of those 2800 IRS employees said "negro"?
    05-02-2014 08:34 PM
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