05-14-2014 01:01 PM
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  1. anon8126715's Avatar
    You are assuming. I'm not. And I don't condone his actions or his words. I don't think he is a good person. But his punishment is an overreaction in my opinion. If he were a young, professional football player and said the same thing on the football field during a game, he would have been fined $50-$100,000 and maybe a suspension for a game and that would have been it. If he were black, he may have gotten away with a warning. Doesn't seem fair does it?

    Sent from the Samsung Galaxy Note 3...yeah, it's spectacular.
    Like I said, you have to put it in context. Even a professional athlete will maybe hire a handful of people, a housekeeper, a security team, etc. This guy had a much broader impact and thus the penalty should be more severe.

    I'm in total agreement that banning him for life (he's what 80-something? so that's what a 5-10 year ban?) and the small fine (in relationship to his wealth) isn't how I would approach it because it sets precedence for people being stripped of their property for how they think, considering it's his team, I'd rather just let market forces squeeze this guy financially. He's already going to die a lonely old despised fart. I say let him stay visible within the NBA around his team, but let the elite players refuse to play for him, fans refuse to pay for tickets to watch his team, and let him cover the losses for him marring his brand and eventually force him to sell the team (at a very reduced rate).
    PrinceCorwin likes this.
    04-30-2014 12:44 PM
  2. delta7's Avatar
    The reason he got in trouble is from a race standpoint, blacks have never been in charge of any real economic assets since black wallstreet in the late 20's, with that said almost all the wealth is with white people and they control all the hiring, factor in most black nba players, white owner going off on black culture = big trouble.

    I'm all for free speech as well but from a black man point of view, I couldn't take the court if I was playing for the clippers after hearing this, basically it's plantation politics... put the men to work, sleep with the women, don't associate with neither much in public.

    It's pretty offensive....

    It also brought up a convo about housing discrimination and whatever else you can imagine this guy doing to limit minorities from achieving thing.

    Hit's too close to home for many people, I think the younger generation is too naive and stupid to understand fully what's going on, the older generation will be above angry.

    Personally I think this woman is just a gold digging fool but he fell for her trap from the start, he didn't know better.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    04-30-2014 03:21 PM
  3. anon8126715's Avatar
    The reason he got in trouble is from a race standpoint, blacks have never been in charge of any real economic assets since black wallstreet in the late 20's, with that said almost all the wealth is with white people and they control all the hiring, factor in most black nba players, white owner going off on black culture = big trouble.

    I'm all for free speech as well but from a black man point of view, I couldn't take the court if I was playing for the clippers after hearing this, basically it's plantation politics... put the men to work, sleep with the women, don't associate with neither much in public.

    It's pretty offensive....

    It also brought up a convo about housing discrimination and whatever else you can imagine this guy doing to limit minorities from achieving thing.

    Hit's too close to home for many people, I think the younger generation is too naive and stupid to understand fully what's going on, the older generation will be above angry.

    Personally I think this woman is just a gold digging fool but he fell for her trap from the start, he didn't know better.
    This pretty much sums it up. I also agree that the girl was most likely looking to muckrake this guy. At least now his true feelings are out there for the world to see. The sad part about this is that I would say this isn't isolated. I hear off color racist remarks all the time from people that would then turn around and talk to a co-worker of color as if they had been longtime friends. I've seen it from all parties to be quite honest. The sad truth is that there's a lot of covert racism out there from sources that you'd least expect.
    04-30-2014 05:40 PM
  4. Mooncatt's Avatar
    This just in, he's been banned for life from the Bunny Ranch.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5235320.html

    I think we can consider the matter settled now. :rolleyes:
    04-30-2014 09:08 PM
  5. anon8126715's Avatar
    This just in, he's been banned for life from the Bunny Ranch.

    Nevada's Bunny Ranch Brothel Bans Donald Sterling For Life

    I think we can consider the matter settled now. :rolleyes:
    The question I have is, did he ever go there to begin with?

    I heard Oprah wants to buy the team, and I'm sure she has the money for it. I think it would be good for the Clippers, but might outstage the Lakers if the Clippers had an owner like Oprah. I can only imagine how the culture would change with Oprah at the helm.

    In Dallas we had what I believe to be a similar owner in Donald Carter (not just cause he was also a Donald) that was a good ole boy version. When Mark Cuban bought the team from him, the players said that Mark Cuban would put out a nice spread for the team after each game. Under Donald Carter, they players were "allowed" to eat free food from the concession stands (not exactly the kind of food you'd want your athletes eating).
    05-01-2014 07:22 PM
  6. Mooncatt's Avatar
    The question I have is, did he ever go there to begin with?

    I heard Oprah wants to buy the team, and I'm sure she has the money for it. I think it would be good for the Clippers, but might outstage the Lakers if the Clippers had an owner like Oprah. I can only imagine how the culture would change with Oprah at the helm.
    I don't know if he did or didn't, but I was making light of how some of these reactions are starting to get silly. Though it would be better if he never went to the Bunny Ranch to begin with.

    My concern about someone like Oprah, or any black person for that matter, buying the team is it could easily swing the racism debate the other way. As if saying his words were so bad that only a black owner could make amends. Do I personally believe that? No, but you can bet people will start questioning the intentions of the buyer. Does anyone know if Oprah was already looking to buy a sorts team?
    05-01-2014 07:43 PM
  7. anon8126715's Avatar
    My concern about someone like Oprah, or any black person for that matter, buying the team is it could easily swing the racism debate the other way. As if saying his words were so bad that only a black owner could make amends. Do I personally believe that? No, but you can bet people will start questioning the intentions of the buyer. Does anyone know if Oprah was already looking to buy a sorts team?
    What's wrong with a black person fixing what a white person broke? That's exactly what Obama's doing right?

    I'd personally like to see it happen just to see out of my own curiosity, will Oprah's ownership mean the players all of the sudden get treated better, or will the status quo be kept intact? I go back to my local team, the Dallas Mavericks. Mark Cuban decided in order to make his organization a winning organization (although only 1 championship thus far) he would furnish his players with their own stereo systems in their lockers, he had food catered for them after the games. I'm curious to see if Oprah would do something similar or would approach it like a business. I think she could probably muster up some sort of Clipper reality show for her flailing network, if the O-channel is still around I mean.
    05-01-2014 08:18 PM
  8. delta7's Avatar
    This pretty much sums it up. I also agree that the girl was most likely looking to muckrake this guy. At least now his true feelings are out there for the world to see. The sad part about this is that I would say this isn't isolated. I hear off color racist remarks all the time from people that would then turn around and talk to a co-worker of color as if they had been longtime friends. I've seen it from all parties to be quite honest. The sad truth is that there's a lot of covert racism out there from sources that you'd least expect.
    Racism is needed to keep things going the way they need to be, thinking otherwise is foolish.

    The reality of it is that until blacks have their own economic base this is going to be the norm. Stuart Scott just posted a twitter saying it's impossible for blacks to be racist sin e we have no ecominc power, in other words how can a black man hold a white man down? Honestly he can't.

    I'm not on even mad at sterling he seems like a brilliant man, he's old school and knows alot of things but he got caught and I think that woman is a vile low down, dirty stinking golddigger but he should know better.

    These issues make whites feel like their the most evil people in the world and the new generation doesn't even know anything compared to the older generation and in a sense it's a it fair but to solve problems blacks need own ecominc base so we can stop relying on whites for everything, that's the only time racist relations in America will improve.

    Oh and if Oprah or any other black celebrity who's socially conscious owns a NBA team think Miami Heat part 2, 3 and do on. Lots of these players are pretty pro black they just can't express themselves the way they want to.

    Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
    05-02-2014 07:27 AM
  9. DINGSTER1's Avatar
    Racism is needed???? !!!!

    Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
    A895 likes this.
    05-02-2014 10:38 AM
  10. monsieurms's Avatar
    In reading some rationalizations of this---hard to believe---I'm not sure everyone has actually read everything about this and gotten up to speed.

    This was not a causal epithet "in the moment" of the type we have seen with a Michael Richards or a Riley Cooper. This is the KEY point. Yeah, tape a lot of people in casual moments, some minor vulgarities might come out that do not truly represent who they are.

    That's NOT what happened here. It was a long, amazing speech that was simply impossible to believe from an NBA owner. Telling Stiviano she couldn't post a public photo with a black person--Magic Johnson no less. I mean, seriously? An NBA owner is telling his mistress she shouldn't post a photo of Magic Johnson?! What does that say about him and who he is? ("“Why do you pose with minorities? Why?” ...-- “Why should you be walking in public with black people? Why? Is there any benefit to you?”" “Yeah, it bothers me a lot that you want to broadcast that you’re associating with black people. Do you have to?” -- "You can sleep with [black people]. You can bring them in, you can do whatever you want. The little I ask you is not to promote it on that ... and not to bring them to my games." -- "I’m just saying, in your lousy (expletive) Instagrams, you don’t have to have yourself with, walking with black people.")


    Then..rationalizing it all for himself because of all the things he does for his Black players, you know, taking care of them and all. I guess the only thing he missed is saying some of his best friends are Black. A part of it that is often omitted in news accounts is Sterling's rationalization: "I support them and give them food, and clothes, and cars, and houses," Sterling rails. "Who gives it to them? Does someone else give it to them?"

    Sounds, again, like a slave owner talking.

    Then, there's the history, the track record. This does not occur in isolation. In a prior dustup with Elgin Baylor: "Reports of inappropriate behavior by Sterling towards his players have also come to light. For example, Baylor alleged in his lawsuit that Sterling would visit the locker room while players were showering, according to ESPN.com. Players Sam Cassell, Elton Brand and Corey Maggette complained to me that Donald Sterling would bring women into the locker room after games, while the players were showering, and make comments such as, ‘Look at those beautiful black bodies.’ I brought this to Sterling’s attention, but he continued to bring women into the locker room.”" --From SI.com

    Again, he sounds like a slave owner talking. Also from that article about the track record; "However, this is not an isolated incident for Sterling, who bought the Clippers in 1981. Over the years, Sterling has been involved in multiple lawsuits in which tenants of buildings that he owns have alleged discriminatory treatments."

    The NBA is a private organization. They can have whatever rules they want. If they feel that this brings shame to their organization and creates an intolerable position--especially in a league and on a team where the vast majority of players are Black--that is their right. And they are also correct about both. The question is not whether they are overreacting, but what took so long.

    NB: I don't care whether Stiviano is suing him or not, as long as the tape is accurate. Yeah, this may have been the result of extortion. But is the tape accurate? All that matters in this context.
    nolittdroid likes this.
    05-03-2014 05:26 AM
  11. A895's Avatar
    Racism is needed to keep things going the way they need to be, thinking otherwise is foolish.

    The reality of it is that until blacks have their own economic base this is going to be the norm. Stuart Scott just posted a twitter saying it's impossible for blacks to be racist sin e we have no ecominc power, in other words how can a black man hold a white man down? Honestly he can't.

    I'm not on even mad at sterling he seems like a brilliant man, he's old school and knows alot of things but he got caught and I think that woman is a vile low down, dirty stinking golddigger but he should know better.

    These issues make whites feel like their the most evil people in the world and the new generation doesn't even know anything compared to the older generation and in a sense it's a it fair but to solve problems blacks need own ecominc base so we can stop relying on whites for everything, that's the only time racist relations in America will improve.

    Oh and if Oprah or any other black celebrity who's socially conscious owns a NBA team think Miami Heat part 2, 3 and do on. Lots of these players are pretty pro black they just can't express themselves the way they want to.

    Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
    I can't with this post.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    05-03-2014 10:03 AM
  12. anon8126715's Avatar
    In reading some rationalizations of this---hard to believe---I'm not sure everyone has actually read everything about this and gotten up to speed.

    This was not a causal epithet "in the moment" of the type we have seen with a Michael Richards or a Riley Cooper. This is the KEY point. Yeah, tape a lot of people in casual moments, some minor vulgarities might come out that do not truly represent who they are.

    That's NOT what happened here. It was a long, amazing speech that was simply impossible to believe from an NBA owner. Telling Stiviano she couldn't post a public photo with a black person--Magic Johnson no less. I mean, seriously? An NBA owner is telling his mistress she shouldn't post a photo of Magic Johnson?! What does that say about him and who he is? ("“Why do you pose with minorities? Why?” ...-- “Why should you be walking in public with black people? Why? Is there any benefit to you?”" “Yeah, it bothers me a lot that you want to broadcast that you’re associating with black people. Do you have to?” -- "You can sleep with [black people]. You can bring them in, you can do whatever you want. The little I ask you is not to promote it on that ... and not to bring them to my games." -- "I’m just saying, in your lousy (expletive) Instagrams, you don’t have to have yourself with, walking with black people.")


    Then..rationalizing it all for himself because of all the things he does for his Black players, you know, taking care of them and all. I guess the only thing he missed is saying some of his best friends are Black. A part of it that is often omitted in news accounts is Sterling's rationalization: "I support them and give them food, and clothes, and cars, and houses," Sterling rails. "Who gives it to them? Does someone else give it to them?"

    Sounds, again, like a slave owner talking.

    Then, there's the history, the track record. This does not occur in isolation. In a prior dustup with Elgin Baylor: "Reports of inappropriate behavior by Sterling towards his players have also come to light. For example, Baylor alleged in his lawsuit that Sterling would visit the locker room while players were showering, according to ESPN.com. Players Sam Cassell, Elton Brand and Corey Maggette complained to me that Donald Sterling would bring women into the locker room after games, while the players were showering, and make comments such as, ‘Look at those beautiful black bodies.’ I brought this to Sterling’s attention, but he continued to bring women into the locker room.”" --From SI.com

    Again, he sounds like a slave owner talking. Also from that article about the track record; "However, this is not an isolated incident for Sterling, who bought the Clippers in 1981. Over the years, Sterling has been involved in multiple lawsuits in which tenants of buildings that he owns have alleged discriminatory treatments."

    The NBA is a private organization. They can have whatever rules they want. If they feel that this brings shame to their organization and creates an intolerable position--especially in a league and on a team where the vast majority of players are Black--that is their right. And they are also correct about both. The question is not whether they are overreacting, but what took so long.

    NB: I don't care whether Stiviano is suing him or not, as long as the tape is accurate. Yeah, this may have been the result of extortion. But is the tape accurate? All that matters in this context.

    My thoughts as well. He treated the players as though he was a plantation owner. What the (edited by Moderator) also fails to realize is that HE doesn't give them the money to buy the cars and all the luxuries that they have, the FANS do that.

    What irritates me about some of these wealthy elite pompous asses is they think that without their wealth, we'd be a hapless society fumbling about still trying to discover fire. Their wealth is not possible without the rest of our society buying what they have to sell.
    A895 likes this.
    05-03-2014 12:41 PM
  13. davidnc's Avatar
    Remember folks to:
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    Community Rules & Guidelines - Mobile Nations Forums
    05-03-2014 05:56 PM
  14. anon8126715's Avatar
    05-09-2014 01:51 PM
  15. jdbii's Avatar
    In reading some rationalizations of this---hard to believe---I'm not sure everyone has actually read everything about this and gotten up to speed.
    If he is 1) a private citizen; 2) speaking privately in his home; 3) the conversation is secretly being recorded; and, 4) he owns a private business, then it is not relevant what he said. Why? 1) we don't criminalize thoughts; 2) he is not a public servant like a CO of an aircraft carrier or a Supreme Court Justice; and, 3) this reeks of entrapment. Crucify him for his history of racist acts you referenced but those acts are separate matters that stand on their own. The NBA, the Clippers, and the Players Union should also be punished right alongside him for tolerating an atmosphere of racism if what you wrote is true.

    If you want to get into that the NBA is a quasi-public entity because tax dollars subsidize it, or that it is such a high profile position that it warrants stricter scrutiny, then those are points to consider but not yet established. The heinousness of what he said isn't relevant until you establish we the public had a right to hear it. BTW, I didn't hear the recording nor do I know the facts because once I heard it was a secret recording of a private citizen I was immediately turned off by the facts and intentionally didn't listen to it. I am not defending Sterling as a person, his racism, or his racist acts in anyway. I am defending the right to privacy and freedom from entrapment for any private citizen.
    05-10-2014 11:27 AM
  16. A895's Avatar
    If he is 1) a private citizen; 2) speaking privately in his home; 3) the conversation is secretly being recorded; and, 4) he owns a private business, then it is not relevant what he said. Why? 1) we don't criminalize thoughts; 2) he is not a public servant like a CO of an aircraft carrier or a Supreme Court Justice; and, 3) this reeks of entrapment. Crucify him for his history of racist acts you referenced but those acts are separate matters that stand on their own. The NBA, the Clippers, and the Players Union should also be punished right alongside him for tolerating an atmosphere of racism if what you wrote is true.

    If you want to get into that the NBA is a quasi-public entity because tax dollars subsidize it, or that it is such a high profile position that it warrants stricter scrutiny, then those are points to consider but not yet established. The heinousness of what he said isn't relevant until you establish we the public had a right to hear it. BTW, I didn't hear the recording nor do I know the facts because once I heard it was a secret recording of a private citizen I was immediately turned off by the facts and intentionally didn't listen to it. I am not defending Sterling as a person, his racism, or his racist acts in anyway. I am defending the right to privacy and freedom from entrapment for any private citizen.
    The thing about it is, the government or the police didn't record him. His girlfriend did. He said all those things she leaked the tapes and boom you get the after affects. He can't sue for defamation of character or anything since he was the one who said those things. Everything that happened is his fault it just wasn't public knowledge he was racist. Public knows now so consequences ensue.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    jdbii likes this.
    05-10-2014 11:49 AM
  17. anon8126715's Avatar
    The thing about it is, the government or the police didn't record him. His girlfriend did. He said all those things she leaked the tapes and boom you get the after affects. He can't sue for defamation of character or anything since he was the one who said those things. Everything that happened is his fault it just wasn't public knowledge he was racist. Public knows now so consequences ensue.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    I still think the consequences should come via the market, not the league stripping him of his team. Fans should refuse to pay. Players should refuse to sign for his team, and he should eventually be forced to sell the team at a reduced price. I guess what we should also consider is that the league is an "exempt" business and they operate under different rules. Since Sterling is in such a highly visible position, I guess the NBA has to protect their brand.

    Whatever happens to him and his team, at least his racism is now out in the open for everyone to see. As I've stated before, his views aren't as big an anomaly as people make them out to be.
    jdbii and PrinceCorwin like this.
    05-10-2014 12:20 PM
  18. jdbii's Avatar
    The thing about it is, the government or the police didn't record him. His girlfriend did. He said all those things she leaked the tapes and boom you get the after affects. He can't sue for defamation of character or anything since he was the one who said those things. Everything that happened is his fault it just wasn't public knowledge he was racist. Public knows now so consequences ensue.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    All valid points I can't argue with. The entrapment and privacy issues could be raised in any challenge of the NBA's fine within its own system. They NBA would have some kind of hearing for somebody to challenge fines. He'll lose, but those issues could be raised.
    05-10-2014 12:33 PM
  19. jdbii's Avatar
    As I've stated before, his views aren't as big an anomaly as people make them out to be.
    So true.
    05-10-2014 12:36 PM
  20. monsieurms's Avatar
    If he is 1) a private citizen; 2) speaking privately in his home; 3) the conversation is secretly being recorded; and, 4) he owns a private business, then it is not relevant what he said..
    If he is a private citizen demonstrating that he is a racist in his home, he's still a racist. He's still someone who holds views akin to a slaveowner while running a team chock full of African Americans. So, why should i care whether it is secretly recorded? If you found out that he is a neo-Nazi (not saying he is), and thinks all Jews should be exterminated, is it more important to you that it was secretly recorded, or that it is the truth?

    It is a private business, but that is exactly why it is fair to ban him. Where you are wrong is in determining what the business is. It is not limited to the Clippers. The business, in fact, is "NBA." Sterling merely holds a franchise in it called "Clippers." As a private business, the NBA can decide they don't want blatant racists owning their ball clubs as a franchise.

    Like many businesses, they require that its affiliates and employees not do things to embarrass them and bring shame upon the organization. These are loosely called "morals clauses." They have applied to many individuals in many walks of life over the years, especially those in the public eye--like Sterling. Sterling has contracts with the NBA that he is required to honor, as do all franchisees of all businesses.
    A895 likes this.
    05-10-2014 03:09 PM
  21. jdbii's Avatar
    If he is a private citizen demonstrating that he is a racist in his home, he's still a racist. He's still someone who holds views akin to a slaveowner while running a team chock full of African Americans. So, why should i care whether it is secretly recorded? If you found out that he is a neo-Nazi (not saying he is), and thinks all Jews should be exterminated, is it more important to you that it was secretly recorded, or that it is the truth?

    It is a private business, but that is exactly why it is fair to ban him. Where you are wrong is in determining what the business is. It is not limited to the Clippers. The business, in fact, is "NBA." Sterling merely holds a franchise in it called "Clippers." As a private business, the NBA can decide they don't want blatant racists owning their ball clubs as a franchise.

    Like many businesses, they require that its affiliates and employees not do things to embarrass them and bring shame upon the organization. These are loosely called "morals clauses." They have applied to many individuals in many walks of life over the years, especially those in the public eye--like Sterling. Sterling has contracts with the NBA that he is required to honor, as do all franchisees of all businesses.

    Good points. I hadn't thought about it in the context of being a franchise, and I had also forgotten about moral-clauses. If moral-clauses apply to secretly recorded private conversations that reek of entrapment then so be it. Why should you care that it was secretly recorded? Simply because we don't criminalize bad thoughts. Freedom of thought, freedom from entrapment, and privacy rights are important issues as well.
    05-10-2014 04:31 PM
  22. monsieurms's Avatar
    G. Why should you care that it was secretly recorded? Simply because we don't criminalize bad thoughts. Freedom of thought, freedom from entrapment, and privacy rights are important issues as well.
    Entrapment, of course, is a criminal defense in which the government sets up a trap and induces a crime. This is not a criminal matter. The government had nothing to do with it. And he wasn't tricked or trapped into saying anything, just recorded.

    This all arose out of yet another unsavory aspect--Stiviano evidently being Sterling's mistress. Perhaps if you don't wish to have mistress-eruptions, it would be best to keep one's pants zipped and not go screwing around with someone a fraction of your age. Otherwise, it's almost inevitable. It's not like she was hanging around him for his good looks, eh?

    It's really hard to feel sorry because that came back to bite him in the rear.
    A895 likes this.
    05-11-2014 04:07 PM
  23. A895's Avatar
    Entrapment, of course, is a criminal defense in which the government sets up a trap and induces a crime. This is not a criminal matter. The government had nothing to do with it. And he wasn't tricked or trapped into saying anything, just recorded.

    This all arose out of yet another unsavory aspect--Stiviano evidently being Sterling's mistress. Perhaps if you don't wish to have mistress-eruptions, it would be best to keep one's pants zipped and not go screwing around with someone a fraction of your age. Otherwise, it's almost inevitable. It's not like she was hanging around him for his good looks, eh?

    It's really hard to feel sorry because that came back to bite him in the rear.
    I agree with you 100%.
    monsieurms likes this.
    05-11-2014 04:40 PM
  24. anon8126715's Avatar
    I guess the league DOES have a few reasons to wash its hands of Donald Sterling. While it is kind of off putting that his conversation was supposed to be a private conversation (despite his mistress claiming that he wanted the recordings), him being an owner, he shouldn't have put himself in the position he did with that woman obvious being someone wanting to shake him down. A rich person typically shelters themselves away from such type of gold diggers. I'm sure the NBA would rather not have someone in their ownership that is such a liability. As much as I hate the idea that someone can be forced out of ownership, I can understand the NBA's point of view.
    A895 and jdbii like this.
    05-12-2014 11:47 AM
  25. jdbii's Avatar
    Entrapment, of course, is a criminal defense in which the government sets up a trap and induces a crime. This is not a criminal matter. The government had nothing to do with it. And he wasn't tricked or trapped into saying anything, just recorded.

    This all arose out of yet another unsavory aspect--Stiviano evidently being Sterling's mistress. Perhaps if you don't wish to have mistress-eruptions, it would be best to keep one's pants zipped and not go screwing around with someone a fraction of your age. Otherwise, it's almost inevitable. It's not like she was hanging around him for his good looks, eh?

    It's really hard to feel sorry because that came back to bite him in the rear.
    I have no disagreement with you here, except I wasn't referring to entrapment as a legal term-of-art nor referring to the crime, but rather the principle of the matter, i.e., tricking somebody. I also don't feel sorry for the guy one iota and agree that he made his own mess. I have no issue with his punishment or him being banned. Nor do I want to defend him. My issue is with the secret recording, and whether or not the secret recording can be the basis for the punishment. Anyway earlier you were questioning some people's rationalization. I was just offering my rationalization. I'll be the first to say it isn't perfect.
    05-12-2014 03:11 PM
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