06-13-2014 06:48 PM
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  1. Timelessblur's Avatar
    It goes right back to the income inequality debate. The numbers clearly show the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Then if you dare question income inequality you are labelled a left wing socialist out to destroy freedom and wanting everything for free.
    Bingo. You can attack the massive imbalance and all tea idiots in Congress Dodge and refuse to address it. The right refuses to even see the fact that things are shifting towards kings and serfs.
    Basically they are all for slavery and pushing slave wages.

    When slavery was ended guess what some business went under because they could not support the fact that free labor was gone. Some jobs and companies are not worth saving. If their model relays on slave wages why should we save them?

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    A895, palandri, oz123 and 1 others like this.
    05-17-2014 02:32 PM
  2. anon8126715's Avatar
    What I'm noticing here is both sides (right and left) won't accept a solution or compromise from the other side.

    For example, if a company is forced to pay extra money, why wouldn't they raise prices?

    Is that really a fallacy? More so logic.



    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk 2
    The right will argue that it will raise prices, but that "logic" is like the logic of gas prices. Whenever you hear about conflict in the middle east, or some other oil producing nation, you'll see gas prices spike and will hear someone claim that it's due to the conflict in the _____ region. Yet when those conflicts subside, you don't see gas prices go back down. They tend to stay at that price. Why do you suppose that is the case?

    The same thing will probably happen if they decide to pay their employees $15 an hour, sure you may see an immediate spike in fast food, that's so those opposed can say, "look I told you this would happen!". The same thing happened around the time Obamacare started to go live, some of the more fiendish companies laid off some employees blaming Obamacare. I haven't seen the big calamity that some people insisted would take place once Obamacare went live.
    A895 and palandri like this.
    05-17-2014 05:46 PM
  3. toober's Avatar
    So what happens when it becomes cheaper for the robots to do the minimum wage jobs? Do we really think McDonald's will still hire all those pimple faced dropouts when it's cheaper to to have a machine do it all? We [inappropriate language removed by moderators] about Wal Mart paying it's workers so bad, What will we say when every lane is self checkout and machines stock the shelves?
    05-17-2014 07:06 PM
  4. anon8126715's Avatar
    So what happens when it becomes cheaper for the robots to do the minimum wage jobs? Do we really think McDonald's will still hire all those pimple faced dropouts when it's cheaper to to have a machine do it all? We [inappropriate language removed by moderators] about Wal Mart paying it's workers so bad, What will we say when every lane is self checkout and machines stock the shelves?
    There's no job out there that can't be automated. Not one single job. You even have machines that can replace psychiatrists. While there are some jobs that benefit from a human touch, no one is immune. The problem has more to do with our corporate masters' lack of responsibility than anything else. Even from McDonalds' own website, it's obvious that they don't care about their workers. Below is an image from their "financial planning" website which was set up to "help" their employees. Let me know if you think McDonalds is acting in good faith after reviewing the image.

    Switzerland: Minimum Wage may hit -screen-shot-2013-07-15-9.29.08-am.png


    Oh and that 1st job, that's actually a FULL TIME job at McDonalds.
    palandri and oz123 like this.
    05-17-2014 07:20 PM
  5. A895's Avatar
    So what happens when it becomes cheaper for the robots to do the minimum wage jobs? Do we really think McDonald's will still hire all those pimple faced dropouts when it's cheaper to to have a machine do it all? We [inappropriate language removed by moderators] about Wal Mart paying it's workers so bad, What will we say when every lane is self checkout and machines stock the shelves?
    Not only are you generalizing, you are asking questions that no one can answer right now.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    05-17-2014 07:28 PM
  6. mhans311's Avatar
    There's no job out there that can't be automated. Not one single job. You even have machines that can replace psychiatrists. While there are some jobs that benefit from a human touch, no one is immune. The problem has more to do with our corporate masters' lack of responsibility than anything else. Even from McDonalds' own website, it's obvious that they don't care about their workers. Below is an image from their "financial planning" website which was set up to "help" their employees. Let me know if you think McDonalds is acting in good faith after reviewing the image.


    Oh and that 1st job, that's actually a FULL TIME job at McDonalds.
    I don't care at all about politics but this is hilarious. I didn't realize there were people out there who actually believe machines could do any job in the world.
    05-17-2014 07:37 PM
  7. anon8126715's Avatar
    I don't care at all about politics but this is hilarious. I didn't realize there were people out there who actually believe machines could do any job in the world.
    And exactly what job do you think a machine/computer is incapable of doing, John Henry?
    A895 likes this.
    05-17-2014 07:42 PM
  8. toober's Avatar
    There's no job out there that can't be automated. Not one single job. You even have machines that can replace psychiatrists. While there are some jobs that benefit from a human touch, no one is immune. The problem has more to do with our corporate masters' lack of responsibility than anything else. Even from McDonalds' own website, below is an image from their "financial planning" website which was set up to "help" their employees. Let me know if you think McDonalds is acting in good faith after reviewing the image.
    Maybe part of the problem is that we think a job at McDonalds should pay enough to support a family. Am I supposed to believe that a person needing pictures on a register to do their job is worth that much? These jobs should be filled by students trying to buy their first car and take that "special someone" to the prom, not grown people trying to provide for a family. I worked as a cashier myself to put myself through college, but got a real grown up job when I decided to have a family. You want to preach about the evils of these companies paying their employees so bad, but ignore the total lack of initiative with the employees that settle for these low paying positions.
    05-17-2014 07:59 PM
  9. anon8126715's Avatar
    Maybe part of the problem is that we think a job at McDonalds should pay enough to support a family. Am I supposed to believe that a person needing pictures on a register to do their job is worth that much? These jobs should be filled by students trying to buy their first car and take that "special someone" to the prom, not grown people trying to provide for a family. I worked as a cashier myself to put myself through college, but got a real grown up job when I decided to have a family. You want to preach about the evils of these companies paying their employees so bad, but ignore the total lack of initiative with the employees that settle for these low paying positions.
    So the flip side of that should be these CEOs making their perverse amounts of money, we shouldn't think that these jobs should be able to support every small family.....in a 3rd world country? One of the top earning CEOs in this country makes close to $100 million a year. If you had 6000 McDonalds employees working full time at McDonalds, they still wouldn't make that kind of money. The last reported salary for the CEO of McDonalds makes $9,247 AN HOUR. That's NINE THOUSAND, TWO HUNDRED, and FORTY SEVEN dollars an hour. In what sane world would anyone think that making that kind of money is justifiable while we have some people working full time jobs (some more than one full time job) not even making 1/30th that rate?
    A895 likes this.
    05-17-2014 08:25 PM
  10. oz123's Avatar
    Maybe part of the problem is that we think a job at McDonalds should pay enough to support a family. Am I supposed to believe that a person needing pictures on a register to do their job is worth that much? These jobs should be filled by students trying to buy their first car and take that "special someone" to the prom, not grown people trying to provide for a family. I worked as a cashier myself to put myself through college, but got a real grown up job when I decided to have a family. You want to preach about the evils of these companies paying their employees so bad, but ignore the total lack of initiative with the employees that settle for these low paying positions.
    Exactly where would you expect these 1million+ people to get such a higher paying job? I did not realise there was such an abundance of these jobs in the USA.

    Maybe if the top end was not so greedy there could be more of the wealth spread to the lower end.

    This Chart Shows How Much More Wall Street Made Last Year Than All Of America's 1 Million Minimum Wage Workers | Business Insider
    A895 and palandri like this.
    05-17-2014 08:39 PM
  11. toober's Avatar
    So the flip side of that should be these CEOs making their perverse amounts of money, we shouldn't think that these jobs should be able to support every small family.....in a 3rd world country? One of the top earning CEOs in this country makes close to $100 million a year. If you had 6000 McDonalds employees working full time at McDonalds, they still wouldn't make that kind of money. The last reported salary for the CEO of McDonalds makes $9,247 AN HOUR. That's NINE THOUSAND, TWO HUNDRED, and FORTY SEVEN dollars an hour. In what sane world would anyone think that making that kind of money is justifiable while we have some people working full time jobs (some more than one full time job) not even making 1/30th that rate?
    It doesn't bother me at all that a CEO makes that much. The only paycheck I am concerned with is my own. If I feel that I am not making enough, I will change that. If the people at McDonalds are unhappy with their wages, it is up to them to change that. Maybe they should try more strikes, that seems to be working well for them. At some point you have to realize that if you are an adult working fast food for minimum wage, you just suck at life.
    05-17-2014 08:58 PM
  12. mhans311's Avatar
    And exactly what job do you think a machine/computer is incapable of doing, John Henry?
    Well I better stop eating my McDonald's hamburgers made by minimum wage workers because I would be very nervous to have a machine do my triple bypass heart surgery.
    The Hustleman likes this.
    05-17-2014 09:05 PM
  13. anon8126715's Avatar
    Well I better stop eating my McDonald's hamburgers made by minimum wage workers because I would be very nervous to have a machine do my triple bypass heart surgery.
    First Robot-Assisted Multiple Bypass Surgery | University of Maryland Medical Center That took me all of 3 seconds to find, with help from a MACHINE.....


    So the precision of a robot scares you more than the precision of a human? I guess some people will say anything to try to back up their claims....
    05-17-2014 09:11 PM
  14. toober's Avatar
    Exactly where would you expect these 1million+ people to get such a higher paying job? I did not realise there was such an abundance of these jobs in the USA.

    Maybe if the top end was not so greedy there could be more of the wealth spread to the lower end.

    This Chart Shows How Much More Wall Street Made Last Year Than All Of America's 1 Million Minimum Wage Workers | Business Insider
    I don't expect them to find higher paying jobs. I think they are lazy slugs that have made poor choices in their lives and now expect the government to step in and give them the raise they can't earn for themselves.
    05-17-2014 09:13 PM
  15. oz123's Avatar
    I don't expect them to find higher paying jobs. I think they are lazy slugs that have made poor choices in their lives and now expect the government to step in and give them the raise they can't earn for themselves.
    And exactly what did Wall Street do to justify their $27 billion dollar bonus?
    msndrstood likes this.
    05-17-2014 09:23 PM
  16. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Even from McDonalds' own website, it's obvious that they don't care about their workers. Below is an image from their "financial planning" website which was set up to "help" their employees. Let me know if you think McDonalds is acting in good faith after reviewing the image.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I dunno... Everyone needs to know how to make and follow a budget. There's people making 5X as much that are gong broke every day because they aren't doing a budget. In that respect, McDonald's is doing the employees a better service than their parents and teachers. Another benefit, if you will, is a person doing such a budget has a much better idea of their situation and could be motivated to better themselves when they realize they don't really have as much cash as they thought.



    Maybe if the top end was not so greedy there could be more of the wealth spread to the lower end.
    The fallacy there is assuming that the low end deserves more money simply for living. When I can walk into McDonald's and know my order will be made correctly, then I'll discuss higher wages (and prices as a result).
    toober and The Hustleman like this.
    05-17-2014 09:25 PM
  17. anon8126715's Avatar
    It doesn't bother me at all that a CEO makes that much. The only paycheck I am concerned with is my own. If I feel that I am not making enough, I will change that. If the people at McDonalds are unhappy with their wages, it is up to them to change that. Maybe they should try more strikes, that seems to be working well for them. At some point you have to realize that if you are an adult working fast food for minimum wage, you just suck at life.
    Yes, the Paul Ryan attitude, "I worked at McDonalds, but I knew it wasn't my final destination......(mostly because my daddy helped open doors for me)". Not everyone has those kinds of opportunities. Upward mobility isn't what it used to be in this country. I suspect the reason is nepotism and cronyism run a muck. Why do you think Canada has surpassed us as the country with the wealthiest middle class?

    I make a decent living for myself, but I'm not dense enough to not see the writing on the wall. When we are ok with the exploitation of ANY class, then we can't complain when we're the ones being exploited. I've done everything from Process Engineering work (working with million+ dollar equipment so expensive that a major fortune 500 electronics company had to lease it from the manufacturer) to sweeping floors at a warehouse, and one thing I've learned is work is work. If you have the audacity to look down your nose at someone who's actually putting in a solid 40 hours of work, and tell them "I can't help that you can't afford to live despite the fact that you put in 40 hours, maybe you should go apply for a position elsewhere, what about as a CEO", then you are the perfect definition of a word that rhymes with glass bowl and would get me banned.
    A895, oz123 and msndrstood like this.
    05-17-2014 09:37 PM
  18. toober's Avatar
    And exactly what did Wall Street do to justify their $27 billion dollar bonus?
    As far as I know, nothing. Now tell me what these fast food workers do to justify more than what they are paid? Everyone keeps talking about overpaid CEOs and Wall Street executives and how these companies can afford to pay more. I hear how these people "need" more money to survive. What I am not hearing is why they are worth any more than what they are paid.
    05-17-2014 09:39 PM
  19. oz123's Avatar




    The fallacy there is assuming that the low end deserves more money simply for living. When I can walk into McDonald's and know my order will be made correctly, then I'll discuss higher wages (and prices as a result).
    But Wall Street can make $27billion in bonus simply by living?
    05-17-2014 09:42 PM
  20. anon8126715's Avatar
    I dunno... Everyone needs to know how to make and follow a budget. There's people making 5X as much that are gong broke every day because they aren't doing a budget. In that respect, McDonald's is doing the employees a better service than their parents and teachers. Another benefit, if you will, is a person doing such a budget has a much better idea of their situation and could be motivated to better themselves when they realize they don't really have as much cash as they thought.




    The fallacy there is assuming that the low end deserves more money simply for living. When I can walk into McDonald's and know my order will be made correctly, then I'll discuss higher wages (and prices as a result).
    lol, umm you didn't look at the "budget" they listed did you? The heating cost is "0", there are no entries for gas for their vehicle (they have a car payment listed so I can only assume they anticipate their workers owning a car), and there isn't even an entry for groceries. What's sad is the budget shows that even McDonalds acknowledges that their workers would need a 2nd job to eek out a living.
    A895 likes this.
    05-17-2014 09:44 PM
  21. anon8126715's Avatar
    As far as I know, nothing. Now tell me what these fast food workers do to justify more than what they are paid? Everyone keeps talking about overpaid CEOs and Wall Street executives and how these companies can afford to pay more. I hear how these people "need" more money to survive. What I am not hearing is why they are worth any more than what they are paid.
    40 hours of work used to mean that you could afford a living, even a modest living. What exactly has happened between that time and now? The correlation between this and the widening income inequality is no coincidence. The reason the top earners are brought into this discussion is because management learned a long time ago that they could squeeze their employees to help fatten their bonuses. It's a rather unethical practice IMO, which is one of the reasons I scratch my head when the right wing talks about it so with such bravado yet tries to talk about the need to legislate morality. You'd need a pair of scissors to talk further out of the corners of your mouth.
    palandri and oz123 like this.
    05-17-2014 10:01 PM
  22. mhans311's Avatar
    First Robot-Assisted Multiple Bypass Surgery | University of Maryland Medical Center That took me all of 3 seconds to find, with help from a MACHINE.....


    So the precision of a robot scares you more than the precision of a human? I guess some people will say anything to try to back up their claims....
    You read that article right? Even the title says "robot assisted". The surgeons only utilize the robots so the surgery is less invasive. Robots aren't performing the whole procedure. You really think that if I have a heart attack, I can call 911 and have a machine hear and understand what I am saying, send a machine driven car to my house, send a machine into my house to get me, drive back to the hospital while machines are stabilizing me in the ambulance, have machines at the hospital waiting for my arrival with machines inside to evaluate my vitals and ekg and determine what the problem is, whether I need thrombolytics or a stent or something more serious, take me into the OR, perform necessary procedure, deal with any/every complication that could possibly arise during surgery, take me to my recovery room, take care of me while I recuperate, determine if I am stable enough to be discharged, help me with the necessary paperwork,........ And all of this without any humans to maintain or oversee the machines because machines should be able to do that too right?
    05-17-2014 10:03 PM
  23. A895's Avatar
    As far as I know, nothing. Now tell me what these fast food workers do to justify more than what they are paid? Everyone keeps talking about overpaid CEOs and Wall Street executives and how these companies can afford to pay more. I hear how these people "need" more money to survive. What I am not hearing is why they are worth any more than what they are paid.
    Who's to say the Wall Street guys are worth as much as they are paid? I would raise the mimim wage at least a $1 before I give wall street CEOs another $20 million bonus.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    palandri and oz123 like this.
    05-17-2014 10:04 PM
  24. palandri's Avatar
    This thread has made it clear that you can judge a book by it's cover.
    oz123 likes this.
    05-17-2014 10:12 PM
  25. anon8126715's Avatar
    You read that article right? Even the title says "robot assisted". The surgeons only utilize the robots so the surgery is less invasive. Robots aren't performing the whole procedure. You really think that if I have a heart attack, I can call 911 and have a machine hear and understand what I am saying, send a machine driven car to my house, send a machine into my house to get me, drive back to the hospital while machines are stabilizing me in the ambulance, have machines at the hospital waiting for my arrival with machines inside to evaluate my vitals and ekg and determine what the problem is, whether I need thrombolytics or a stent or something more serious, take me into the OR, perform necessary procedure, deal with any/every complication that could possibly arise during surgery, take me to my recovery room, take care of me while I recuperate, determine if I am stable enough to be discharged, help me with the necessary paperwork,........ And all of this without any humans to maintain or oversee the machines because machines should be able to do that too right?
    The Robots Are Coming to Hospitals - WSJ.com

    As I stated earlier, ANY job can be done through automation. The question is when will the benefits outweigh the costs? Your scenario, I still say yes, but we're not at the point where it's more cost effective to implement the infrastructure. Google has already developed a driverless car, some hospitals are using robots already, and I've seen MANY instances where a 911 operator couldn't or didn't understand the person calling in. But feel free to laugh, I'm sure John Henry would be laughing at your post as well. ;-)
    05-17-2014 10:12 PM
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