06-13-2014 06:48 PM
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  1. anon8126715's Avatar
    I agree, that kind of mentality isn't very helpful. But as was pointed out earlier those people tend to think that the people making the most in this country somehow worked the hardest. I'd be the first to admit that I wish it worked that way, but it doesn't and until we stop making these assumptions, we're not going to solve this problem anytime soon.
    05-18-2014 07:03 PM
  2. toober's Avatar
    You then go on and say people are sitting on their behinds waiting on checks, when that is a generalization.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    This whole thread is based on generalizations. There are several posts here trying to make me believe that minimum wage employees are struggling to feed their families on substandard pay when actually most people earning minimum wage are not the primary breadwinners in the family. We have been asked repeatedly here to believe that people are stuck in these dead end, low paying positions when it has been shown that these are entry level only and with a little initiative people do rise above minimum wage. You say I am using generalizations when your whole argument is supported by them and supplemented with a few anecdotes for good measure.
    05-18-2014 07:05 PM
  3. Aquila's Avatar
    Thread has been cleaned is re-opened.

    Please keep in mind that trolling, disruptive posting, inappropriate language, personal attacks and all of those other things found here: http://forums.mobilenations.com/rule...uidelines.html are less appreciated than quality posts that are meaningful, productive and respectful.

    If you do not have anything to add or what you have to add isn't being said in a polite manner, it would be better to not post.

    Finally, as it says on every page of this forum: Discrimination or Harassment is not tolerated. A few people seem really anxious to straddle that line and it would be better to stay far from it.

    Thanks for your understanding.
    05-18-2014 08:25 PM
  4. A895's Avatar
    Update: Switzerland did not pass the vote for raising the minimum wage, it was overwhelming shot down by 72%. Hopefully the U.S. congressmen and women won't be as stubborn.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    05-19-2014 08:24 AM
  5. Kilroy13's Avatar
    Switzerland came to its senses!

    SENT FROM MY LG G-FLEX......LIFE IS GOOD✌
    05-19-2014 08:39 AM
  6. palandri's Avatar
    Update: Switzerland did not pass the vote for raising the minimum wage, it was overwhelming shot down by 72%. Hopefully the U.S. congressmen and women won't be as stubborn.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    They also rejected a plane to buy new fighter aircraft.

    I respect their vote. There's still a lot of world economic issues that would make me hesitant to spend more money at this time.

    Here's what I found interesting:

    Switzerland currently has no minimum wage, but the median hourly wage is about 33 francs ($37) an hour.
    Swiss Cast Ballots on World’s Highest Minimum Wage - TIME
    05-19-2014 08:43 AM
  7. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I must admit a part of me wanted to see it passed just so we can study the repercussions, both good and bad. Granted, succeed or fail, we couldn't make a direct prediction if the same would happen in the U.S. Our economical and societal differences are too great to do that, but would certainly give valuable insight on having such a high minimum wage and a huge jump too.
    05-19-2014 08:44 AM
  8. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Minimum wage is an extremely complex issue with lots of possitives and negatives for moving it up or down. It not as simple as: These people make more money and are happier now. You have to take into account dozens of economic factors to determine how much their incoming wealth will really increase or decrease.

    A few of the larger factors to consider when changing the the minimum wage:
    Cost of living changes
    Job changes
    Global competitiveness of work force
    Effects to small business
    Effects to large business
    Value of Jobs vs Mandated Compensation
    Tax Effects
    Unemployment Changes(up or down)
    Effects to the Value of Higher Education


    You make any kind of change to minimum wage and all of these factors and more will be effected. When you are mandating policy for a whole country, you have to truly understand the effects to everyone in that country and the overall economy that it effects. It is not a simple "take from this group and give to that group" equation(which is victim to the false assumption that there is a set amount of wealth anyway).
    05-19-2014 08:46 AM
  9. SteveISU's Avatar
    Raise the minimum to $12/hr and let the chips fall were they may. If prices go up, everyone will complain. If businesses don't want to raise prices in order to stay competitive they'll cut their labor force. What I don't like is anyone telling someone who put their money up, who took a risk, who convinced others to put up capital in order to gain a return, how much they should make. I don't think there's a single person here who would want someone coming in and picking apart how much they made and if they are worth that dollar amount. My son's school principle makes over $150K and I'd cut her pay in half.

    The other thing anyone has failed to mention is while the window dressing on all this is that the lonely poor Panera Bread worker will see a 50% increase in pay. The underlying real political play here is that many union's pegged their pay to minimum wage rate. Often when that rate goes up, it opens the door immediately for new pay talks between union leaders and management. So union members get a pay hike and some of the biggest campaign contributors get a raise.
    05-19-2014 01:09 PM
  10. anon8126715's Avatar
    A wage increase will cause prices to rise, for those that think the ones pushing for it think that business owners will magically come up with the extra money to pay for this. I'm even willing to bet that business owners would probably bump the price up just a little more than what's needed to cover the wage increase just because they can and then blame it on the wage increase.

    Thus, one of the reasons I wouldn't mind seeing a wage increase (besides my belief that 40 hours of work should yield a modest living when you consider how lavish a lifestyle is afforded by those at the top) is because it would serve as a message to the top that our leaders are not owned by big business. Granted, the way things are now, I wholeheartedly believe that our political system is a fully owned subsidiary of big business.
    05-19-2014 05:23 PM
  11. anon8126715's Avatar
    More proof, even though some people still don't see it.

    Middle class Americans: Not so wealthy by global standards - Jun. 11, 2014
    06-11-2014 08:20 PM
  12. A895's Avatar
    More proof, even though some people still don't see it.

    Middle class Americans: Not so wealthy by global standards - Jun. 11, 2014
    Why do the GOP neglect us so?

    GOP Y U NO RAISE MINIMUM WAGE?!

    Posted via Android Central App
    06-11-2014 08:38 PM
  13. anon8126715's Avatar
    Why do the GOP neglect us so?

    GOP Y U NO RAISE MINIMUM WAGE?!

    Posted via Android Central App
    The GOP would rather control the best interest of millionaires and billionaires. The Democrats aren't much better since they pretty much answer to millionaires and billionaires as well, just a different set. Thus, the majority of the U.S. population will continue to struggle because to be quite honest, we don't have a voice in the political process. Our voice is drowned out by the millionaires and billionaires pouring millions into the electoral process.

    Hence the reason it's frustrating to no ends when you have people like the average Fox news viewer that's making less than the average wage, fighting for millionaire and billionaire causes.

    It strikes me as extremely ridiculous that someone who makes less than $250,000 a year would side with a party that thinks regulation on industry is too strict, "Our environment isn't toxic enough, lets shrink government down even further so industry can poison it further", a party that thinks the safety net for the average citizen is too much like a hammock, "You know I don't think my employer has enough leverage against me, I think we should lower the amount of unemployment benefits or the amount of funding for social programs so that if my employer wants to make more money by firing me or reducing my wages, the safety net for me is so dismal that I'd rather take the pay cut or find a lower paying job to survive". It makes me want to pull my hair out to think that we have so many inept near-sighted voters out there

    Then again, the video below pretty much speaks volumes about why so many people vote against their best interest. (there are some NSW portions on the video I think, some of the interviewees have some inappropriate patches on their shirts, to the best of my recollection, and there may be some language)

    A895 likes this.
    06-12-2014 06:31 AM
  14. SteveISU's Avatar
    Why do the GOP neglect us so?

    GOP Y U NO RAISE MINIMUM WAGE?!

    Posted via Android Central App
    There are plenty of States that are Solid Blue. I'm in one of them (Illinois), if it was so easy why don't they just raise minimum wage to $100/hr and the poverty rate should end up at zero right? Hell, even Oprah would move to the South side because then we'd be looking at an affluent neighborhood.
    06-12-2014 09:23 AM
  15. Timelessblur's Avatar
    There are plenty of States that are Solid Blue. I'm in one of them (Illinois), if it was so easy why don't they just raise minimum wage to $100/hr and the poverty rate should end up at zero right? Hell, even Oprah would move to the South side because then we'd be looking at an affluent neighborhood.
    And yet example like that lets face it are stupid and you and I know that raising it is just one part of the equation.

    What really needs to happen is to really shrink the wealth gap. The US average net worth is number 3. By that fact our average middle class should be at least in the top 5. Not so far down on the list at 19. I bet it will not be long before the US falls out of the top 20.
    That should tell you we have a a problem. A HUGE problem and something needs to chain. Raising the min up to at least $10 and then indexing it every year against inflation is a start. Things need to change and we need to increase the middle class.
    Trickle down does not work. We should try the trickle up approach.
    06-12-2014 09:56 AM
  16. A895's Avatar
    There are plenty of States that are Solid Blue. I'm in one of them (Illinois), if it was so easy why don't they just raise minimum wage to $100/hr and the poverty rate should end up at zero right? Hell, even Oprah would move to the South side because then we'd be looking at an affluent neighborhood.
    😕

    Posted via Android Central App
    06-12-2014 10:04 AM
  17. SteveISU's Avatar
    And yet example like that lets face it are stupid and you and I know that raising it is just one part of the equation.

    What really needs to happen is to really shrink the wealth gap. The US average net worth is number 3. By that fact our average middle class should be at least in the top 5. Not so far down on the list at 19. I bet it will not be long before the US falls out of the top 20.
    That should tell you we have a a problem. A HUGE problem and something needs to chain. Raising the min up to at least $10 and then indexing it every year against inflation is a start. Things need to change and we need to increase the middle class.
    Trickle down does not work. We should try the trickle up approach.
    What's stupid is arguing that raising the minimum wage will do anything to the middle class when 1.1% of all hourly wage workers are currently working at the minimum wage levels. 1.6 million people, almost half of them are between the ages of 16-19 yrs old. What would you like those kids to make? You honestly think the extra $80/wk is gonna magically lift their purchasing power to any meaningful level? Congratulations you bought them a tank of premium gas.
    06-12-2014 10:11 AM
  18. Timelessblur's Avatar
    What's stupid is arguing that raising the minimum wage will do anything to the middle class when 1.1% of all hourly wage workers are currently working at the minimum wage levels. 1.6 million people, almost half of them are between the ages of 16-19 yrs old. What would you like those kids to make? You honestly think the extra $80/wk is gonna magically lift their purchasing power to any meaningful level? Congratulations you bought them a tank of premium gas.
    ANd when you use the 1.1% making it as an argument also tells me you do not understand or want to understand how raising the minimum wage effects a lot more than just 1.1%.

    The increase in minium wage would effect and increase the pay of everyone making with in 25-50% of the new minimum. So if you increase the min to $10 everyone wage that was making between $12.50-15 and down would see a pay bump. Not it is not linear it drops off. It is by the time you get to 50% of the new min the increase is negligible. But lets not address that fact. It only effects 1.6 million people.....

    MIx that with extra $80 a week is how much of an increase over what they were making. . Oh yeah a good increase. Multiple that out by all of them that is a huge increase in purchasing power. The money will be spent compare to at the top where more and more of it is saved.
    06-12-2014 10:25 AM
  19. SteveISU's Avatar
    ANd when you use the 1.1% making it as an argument also tells me you do not understand or want to understand how raising the minimum wage effects a lot more than just 1.1%.

    The increase in minium wage would effect and increase the pay of everyone making with in 25-50% of the new minimum. So if you increase the min to $10 everyone wage that was making between $12.50-15 and down would see a pay bump. Not it is not linear it drops off. It is by the time you get to 50% of the new min the increase is negligible. But lets not address that fact. It only effects 1.6 million people.....

    MIx that with extra $80 a week is how much of an increase over what they were making. . Oh yeah a good increase. Multiple that out by all of them that is a huge increase in purchasing power. The money will be spent compare to at the top where more and more of it is saved.

    Your assuming that everyone making $7/hr over minimum will maintain that gap. That's a pretty risky assumption. There is also no basis for it.
    06-12-2014 10:40 AM
  20. Timelessblur's Avatar
    Your assuming that everyone making $7/hr over minimum will maintain that gap. That's a pretty risky assumption. There is also no basis for it.
    No I never said that. Those people would see an increase. There is a fall off the farther you get from the min. It is not linear. It falls off the fall off ends somewhere between 25-50% the new bases.
    So yeah if you are making less than 12.50-15.00 and hour you would see a pay increase.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    06-12-2014 10:53 AM
  21. SteveISU's Avatar
    No I never said that. Those people would see an increase. There is a fall off the farther you get from the min. It is not linear. It falls off the fall off ends somewhere between 25-50% the new bases.
    So yeah if you are making less than 12.50-15.00 and hour you would see a pay increase.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    The market, not the government will dictate if I have to raise someones pay whose already above $10/hr. If I do that's when layoffs and cutting benefits would start in order to offset the increased payroll. If minimum is $8.25/hr and I already pay "Joe" $15/hr, raising the minimum wage to $10 won't guarantee Joe a $1.75 raise. He's already above the $10. Now if businesses I'm competing with start raising everyone's pay, then I might have to if I value Joe and want to keep him as an employee. In the same breath, if Joe feels he's entitled to a raise and he walks, he might very well find himself interviewing for jobs offering $10-11/hr.
    06-12-2014 11:36 AM
  22. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Whenever I was working just above minimum wage after the rate was raised, I never got my requisite bump up too. Guess I should go complain to the government.

    Oh wait, I did the wrong thing and made myself more educated and found better work. How dare I fend for myself.
    06-12-2014 12:17 PM
  23. SteveISU's Avatar
    Whenever I was working just above minimum wage after the rate was raised, I never got my requisite bump up too. Guess I should go complain to the government.

    Oh wait, I did the wrong thing and made myself more educated and found better work. How dare I fend for myself.
    It's their pie in the sky arguments that have zero basis. Like I said in another thread, ban all guns and no one will get shot, because that's how we stopped everyone from doing drugs.
    06-12-2014 12:26 PM
  24. Timelessblur's Avatar
    The market, not the government will dictate if I have to raise someones pay whose already above $10/hr. If I do that's when layoffs and cutting benefits would start in order to offset the increased payroll. If minimum is $8.25/hr and I already pay "Joe" $15/hr, raising the minimum wage to $10 won't guarantee Joe a $1.75 raise. He's already above the $10. Now if businesses I'm competing with start raising everyone's pay, then I might have to if I value Joe and want to keep him as an employee. In the same breath, if Joe feels he's entitled to a raise and he walks, he might very well find himself interviewing for jobs offering $10-11/hr.
    again you are missing it by a mile.
    In your case the raise $1.75 min raise would translate into maybe a $0.25 raise for joe. This was from study after study on minwage increases and how it effects all wages. From 25%-50% of the new min you see pay bumps. The amount increased is smaller the farther you are from the new min. That is how the market will react to it in reality.
    The min wage needs to be increased and then needs to be peg against inflation. It should of always been tied to inflation.
    06-12-2014 01:33 PM
  25. SteveISU's Avatar
    again you are missing it by a mile.
    In your case the raise $1.75 min raise would translate into maybe a $0.25 raise for joe. This was from study after study on minwage increases and how it effects all wages. From 25%-50% of the new min you see pay bumps. The amount increased is smaller the farther you are from the new min. That is how the market will react to it in reality.
    The min wage needs to be increased and then needs to be peg against inflation. It should of always been tied to inflation.
    Love to read that study if you got it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    06-12-2014 01:45 PM
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