06-26-2014 06:06 PM
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  1. Scott7217's Avatar
    The prime-time was mostly tongue-in-cheek.
    The question still remains: If you don't have the support of the average American, how do you stop a war?
    06-18-2014 08:19 PM
  2. SteveISU's Avatar
    You actually think the 9/11 attacks were completely unprovoked on our part? Wow, I didn't think anyone thought that to be the case anymore. You DO know that the U.S. trained Bin Laden and that we actually had Bin Laden as an ally when Russia was invading that area right?
    That answered zero of my points, but at least we know you think we asked for it (ie...9/11).
    06-19-2014 10:55 AM
  3. Scott7217's Avatar
    You actually think the 9/11 attacks were completely unprovoked on our part?
    I am interested in the details of what you believe is the US provocation for 9/11. Do you believe it was Operation Infinite Reach, where President Bill Clinton authorized cruise missile strikes to hit targets in Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998?

    CNN -- U.S. missiles pound targets in Afghanistan, Sudan: Retaliation for bombing of U.S. embassies in eastern Africa (article link here)

    I believe Clinton was hoping that the missiles would kill bin Laden, but that didn't happen. For all we know, that strengthened bin Laden's resolve, which would later lead to 9/11.
    06-19-2014 05:46 PM
  4. anon8126715's Avatar
    That answered zero of my points, but at least we know you think we asked for it (ie...9/11).
    Yeah, I tend to not answer points made without some form of citation, I'm a little peculiar in that regard (and by citation I mean from a credible mainstream source, not Glen Beck's or Rush Limbaugh's blog). And I'll also mention that we were ALSO ok with Saddam in power until he invaded Kuwait who was selling oil at a cheaper cut than he was.

    As far as thinking that I think "we asked for it", feel free to put all the words in my mouth that you like. I simply stated that the 9/11 attacks were a reaction to some of our former leaders' poor foreign policies. But considering some of your citations sound distorted, I can understand why you would distort what I was saying.
    06-19-2014 05:47 PM
  5. Scott7217's Avatar
    I simply stated that the 9/11 attacks were a reaction to some of our former leaders' poor foreign policies.
    Can you give an example of a foreign policy that would have led to 9/11?
    06-19-2014 06:31 PM
  6. anon8126715's Avatar
    I am interested in the details of what you believe is the US provocation for 9/11. Do you believe it was Operation Infinite Reach, where President Bill Clinton authorized cruise missile strikes to hit targets in Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998?

    CNN -- U.S. missiles pound targets in Afghanistan, Sudan: Retaliation for bombing of U.S. embassies in eastern Africa (article link here)

    I believe Clinton was hoping that the missiles would kill bin Laden, but that didn't happen. For all we know, that strengthened bin Laden's resolve, which would later lead to 9/11.
    We've done a lot behind the scenes to topple governments and bring about chaos in that region. When you hear about stories like Steve's where he stated that Saddam would send "rape squads" and all the "neck snapping", you can't help wonder what propaganda was spread by those that recruited the 9/11 terrorists and others that have so much rage against our way of life. What I sometimes wonder is what is the average citizen of some of these countries think about all our "hate" against them.
    06-19-2014 06:55 PM
  7. Scott7217's Avatar
    We've done a lot behind the scenes to topple governments and bring about chaos in that region.
    So, do you think Bill Clinton made a mistake in ordering cruise missile strikes to kill Osama bin Laden? Clinton was trying to topple bin Laden's organization by taking out the leadership, including bin Laden himself.
    06-24-2014 01:28 AM
  8. anon8126715's Avatar
    So, do you think Bill Clinton made a mistake in ordering cruise missile strikes to kill Osama bin Laden? Clinton was trying to topple bin Laden's organization by taking out the leadership, including bin Laden himself.
    I'd have to get more information (one of the reasons I haven't answered your other question as well btw) on the strike itself. I would wager that our foreign drone policy is having a negative effect on our foreign relations in some countries right now, so I'll take it to current events and say yes, what Obama's administration is doing right now is only going to give our enemies more rage to fuel further attacks.

    How would you react if our neighborhoods were subjected to what we're subjecting these people? Imagine, you're going about your life wondering if your area will be the "collateral" damage of a foreign entity's ire because you were in a location that was misidentified on a map. What if you had a close friend that was killed by a foreign country's drone strike? Now imagine that you weren't gainfully employed, living in hardship. Some religious figure head in your area asks you if you'd like to give your life to a "greater cause", tells you that you'd become a martyr and would be hailed as a hero.

    The realization that we have to come to is that we're only serving as pawns for these men that seek more power and more control. I personally find it difficult to believe that any human being that has basic human rights, and the basic human necessities and is afforded a few human dignities is going to lash out against anyone else unless there's something that's led them down that path.
    06-24-2014 05:37 PM
  9. SteveISU's Avatar
    Yeah, I tend to not answer points made without some form of citation, I'm a little peculiar in that regard (and by citation I mean from a credible mainstream source, not Glen Beck's or Rush Limbaugh's blog). And I'll also mention that we were ALSO ok with Saddam in power until he invaded Kuwait who was selling oil at a cheaper cut than he was.

    As far as thinking that I think "we asked for it", feel free to put all the words in my mouth that you like. I simply stated that the 9/11 attacks were a reaction to some of our former leaders' poor foreign policies. But considering some of your citations sound distorted, I can understand why you would distort what I was saying.
    I'm sorry, I didn't know each post required a properly formatted APA bibliography. I must have overlooked yours in all your insightful responses and "facts" you provide. Like the "foreign policies" that provoked 9/11. Your lacking citation there, the very thing you accused people of early in the same breath.
    06-25-2014 09:23 AM
  10. SteveISU's Avatar
    We've done a lot behind the scenes to topple governments and bring about chaos in that region. When you hear about stories like Steve's where he stated that Saddam would send "rape squads" and all the "neck snapping", you can't help wonder what propaganda was spread by those that recruited the 9/11 terrorists and others that have so much rage against our way of life. What I sometimes wonder is what is the average citizen of some of these countries think about all our "hate" against them.
    Those were accounts from Uday's body double Latif Yahai. Someone who had witnessed those actions with his own eyes. lol
    06-25-2014 09:27 AM
  11. anon8126715's Avatar
    I'm sorry, I didn't know each post required a properly formatted APA bibliography. I must have overlooked yours in all your insightful responses and "facts" you provide. Like the "foreign policies" that provoked 9/11. Your lacking citation there, the very thing you accused people of early in the same breath.
    I'm not the one that was asking for commentary on each specific item, and I still think that our foreign policy under Bush was horrible, and that's not including all the bumbling done by W.
    06-25-2014 05:28 PM
  12. Scott7217's Avatar
    Those were accounts from Uday's body double Latif Yahai. Someone who had witnessed those actions with his own eyes. lol
    Uday Hussein (Saddam Hussein's eldest son) had an extremely dark history:

    Uday: career of rape, torture and murder -- The Guardian (article link here)

    Excerpt: "Of Saddam's two sons, he was the flamboyant one - towering well over 6ft, with a penchant for fast cars and loud and drunken parties, expensive suits and flowing robes, as well as murder, rape and torture."

    On Uday Hussein's role when he was managing the Iraqi Olympic Football (Soccer) team: "As football overseer, Uday kept a private torture scorecard, with written instructions on how many times each player should be beaten on the soles of his feet after a particularly poor showing."

    On coveting women: "Uday's excesses carried over in his private life where he had a reputation for ordering any girl or woman who caught his eye to be brought to his private pleasure dome."

    On marriage: "His two brief dynastic liaisons - with the daughters of a senior Ba'ath party aide of Saddam and an uncle - were dissolved after Uday beat up his brides."

    Saddam Hussein's view on Uday: "The murder, shootings, and other erratic behaviour put him in permanent disfavour with Saddam. He was briefly exiled to Switzerland and, while he was allowed to return to Iraq, he was never again deemed suitable for succession."
    06-25-2014 06:44 PM
  13. Scott7217's Avatar
    When you hear about stories like Steve's where he stated that Saddam would send "rape squads" and all the "neck snapping", you can't help wonder what propaganda was spread by those that recruited the 9/11 terrorists and others that have so much rage against our way of life.
    Atrocities attributed to Saddam Hussein and his regime -- St. Petersburg Times Online (article link here)

    Excerpts:

    "From 1977 to 1987, between 4,500 and 5,000 Kurdish villages in northern Iraq were destroyed and the population placed in 'resettlement camps.' As many as 50,000 Kurds died. In the spring of 1987, thousands of Kurds were killed by chemical and conventional bombs."

    "After the Gulf War, Iraqi forces shelled and shot thousands of Shiites who were hiding in the country's southern marshlands after a failed revolt. Hussein also razed towns and drained marshlands. Thousands of Shiites, including hundreds of clerics and their students, were imprisoned without charge, 'disappeared' or were executed."

    "The U.N. Commission on Human Rights condemned the Iraqi regime in 2001 for 'widespread, systematic torture and the maintaining of decrees prescribing cruel and inhuman punishment as a penalty for offenses.' Torture methods have included hanging, beating, rape and burning alive."

    "Hussein invaded Kuwait in August 1990 over an oil and land dispute and then annexed the country. Occupying forces brutalized civilians; they tortured and summarily executed detainees. Retreating Iraqi troops looted Kuwait City and seized hundreds of Kuwaitis, taking them back to Baghdad."
    06-25-2014 07:02 PM
  14. anon8126715's Avatar
    Atrocities attributed to Saddam Hussein and his regime -- St. Petersburg Times Online (article link here)

    Excerpts:

    "From 1977 to 1987, between 4,500 and 5,000 Kurdish villages in northern Iraq were destroyed and the population placed in 'resettlement camps.' As many as 50,000 Kurds died. In the spring of 1987, thousands of Kurds were killed by chemical and conventional bombs."

    "After the Gulf War, Iraqi forces shelled and shot thousands of Shiites who were hiding in the country's southern marshlands after a failed revolt. Hussein also razed towns and drained marshlands. Thousands of Shiites, including hundreds of clerics and their students, were imprisoned without charge, 'disappeared' or were executed."

    "The U.N. Commission on Human Rights condemned the Iraqi regime in 2001 for 'widespread, systematic torture and the maintaining of decrees prescribing cruel and inhuman punishment as a penalty for offenses.' Torture methods have included hanging, beating, rape and burning alive."

    "Hussein invaded Kuwait in August 1990 over an oil and land dispute and then annexed the country. Occupying forces brutalized civilians; they tortured and summarily executed detainees. Retreating Iraqi troops looted Kuwait City and seized hundreds of Kuwaitis, taking them back to Baghdad."
    And look at what we're doing and how it may or may not compare to this, we have Guantanamo where the last administration insisted we were performing "Advanced interrogation" that the international community has condemned. We have a handful of rogue soldiers, one went into a civilian area and started firing on innocent civilians, and another that was filmed urinating on dead combatants. We already know that our leaders aren't above fabricating the truth, "There are WMDs", "Mission Accomplished", "I will close Gitmo", et. al.

    If you're on the side of the opposition, what are the chances that you would stretch the truth a bit in order to recruit people to your cause? There are always 2 sides to every story/conflict. I'm old enough to realize that the line between good and evil is not as easily defined as it once was. Look at how many people are ok with considering **** Cheney as someone that served the U.S. admirably. Look at how much he has gained financially from the mess we made of Iraq. FOCUS | Cheney's Halliburton Made $39.5 Billion on Iraq War This guy is considered a "good guy" and is all over every media outlet insisting that the current administration is weak and "allowed" this to happen in Iraq. I'm personally convinced that he is evil personified.

    Now, do I think that our country "deserved" what happened on 9/11 as someone has already alleged? They might as well claim that I believe in torture, that I believe Iraq had WMDs, that I believe **** Cheney to be a hero, or that I believe the U.S. government acts in good faith 100% of the time. The fact is that only a truly naive, dyed in the wool sheep of a person would believe everything that is spoon fed them from the media controlled arm of U.S. government. There are 2 ways to disarm our enemies, we can wipe them off the face of the earth, or we can answer the question "Why?".

    Considering many of the same people that want us to lash out in violence are the same people that would try to convince you that this nation was founded on the basis of Christian beliefs is quite profound.
    06-26-2014 06:33 AM
  15. Scott7217's Avatar
    The fact is that only a truly naive, dyed in the wool sheep of a person would believe everything that is spoon fed them from the media controlled arm of U.S. government.
    Which goes back to my earlier question: If you don't have the support of the average American, how do you stop a war?

    Perhaps we are at a point where most Americans don't care, and war is always inevitable.
    06-26-2014 01:45 PM
  16. anon8126715's Avatar
    Which goes back to my earlier question: If you don't have the support of the average American, how do you stop a war?

    Perhaps we are at a point where most Americans don't care, and war is always inevitable.
    I think we're too removed from war to care. We're almost as calloused by it as someone like **** Cheney who sees it as an opportunity to make more money. Kind of sad though considering how indifferent we can be to someone else's suffering.
    06-26-2014 06:06 PM
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