07-18-2014 04:07 PM
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  1. Aquila's Avatar
    Going to put this here: http://forums.androidcentral.com/sho...d.php?t=368095

    Ideas good - insults, trolling and jerkism bad.

    Nexus through spacetime. Android Central Moderator.
    07-02-2014 04:37 PM
  2. Aquila's Avatar
    One last thought.... Someone saying something stupid or insulting to you or near you doesn't require your response.

    Nexus through spacetime. Android Central Moderator.
    07-02-2014 04:40 PM
  3. Scott7217's Avatar
    I still think one of the biggest flaws of the ACA is that the GOP didn't like single payer (which a good percentage of the public did in fact want). If we had a single payer system, we wouldn't have such challenges in court.
    You can think of the Hobby Lobby decision as a single battle in a war. You don't need to win every battle to win the war. If people are furious over the Hobby Lobby decision, they can galvanize support to put a better healthcare system in place.

    I have a feeling that the Affordable Care Act was passed because there were a lot of people who had no health care options at all. For them, the ACA was what they needed. Sure, having only 16 out of 20 birth control options is not ideal, but that's a lot better than 0 out of 20 birth control options. Is the ACA perfect? No, but it's a start.
    07-02-2014 04:48 PM
  4. nolittdroid's Avatar
    It reminds me of when Congress brought in a bunch of MEN to do the talking for WOMEN'S REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH. What's sad is that they saw nothing wrong with it.

    Attachment 125890
    It's absolutely mind blowing how NOT ONE OF THESE MEN will acknowledge PCOS/endometriosis/PMDD/etc as legitimate medical conditions because they don't suffer from them! How willfully and stupidly ignorant can you be?!
    msndrstood and Scott7217 like this.
    07-02-2014 04:51 PM
  5. Scott7217's Avatar
    If that's not evil then I don't know what is.
    Evil wins when good people do nothing.

    The Hobby Lobby decision is not something that is written in stone. People can protest. People can boycott. People can vote for politicians that share the same values, and they can hold their representatives accountable for the votes they cast. I keep reading things that make it seem like the game is over, when in reality, it's just beginning.
    07-02-2014 04:56 PM
  6. A895's Avatar
    This is why people need to get involved, either through their representatives or through the court system. If a particular religion gets a higher priority, then people need to stand up and change the situation.
    Are you serious? That would require changing the entire values that even govern the nation. The constitution was written by white Christian men for Christian people, why do you think the stigma against those who are of Muslim origin exists? People who are atheists are looked down upon in our society, our National Anthem even mentions Christianity in particular.

    Writing a few letters and petitions won't change the way our society works anytime soon.

    Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App
    07-02-2014 04:57 PM
  7. A895's Avatar
    Hobby Lobby has not said that injuries outside of work will not be covered by insurance.
    I was talking to the previous poster in particular when they said that the company shouldn't cover what happens off the clock.

    Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App
    07-02-2014 05:00 PM
  8. anon8126715's Avatar
    I haven't tried to impose anything on you. All I did was issue a rebuttal to your initial statements about the Bible and believers. I got my 83% from Google.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Ok, then a simple question, why do you think this ruling is correct? And forgive me in advance if I am skeptical and think that you're going to answer in as insincere a fashion about morality as you posted about me talking to you in a condescending manner. I suspect that you're accusing me of being condescending because you think my posts violate some sort of forum rule. I assure you they do not, I am just being as poignant with my assertions as everyone else. And I still find it hard to believe that 83% believe in the bible.
    A895 likes this.
    07-02-2014 05:00 PM
  9. A895's Avatar
    As far as I can tell, yes, even Satanism would be protected under the First Amendment.
    So if I hold a Satanism rally I shouldn't be looked down upon right?

    Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App
    Scott7217 likes this.
    07-02-2014 05:00 PM
  10. Scott7217's Avatar
    It's absolutely mind blowing how NOT ONE OF THESE MEN will acknowledge PCOS/endometriosis/PMDD/etc as legitimate medical conditions because they don't suffer from them! How willfully and stupidly ignorant can you be?!
    This is why we are not required to listen to them.

    That being said, do you know of any specific drugs to treat PCOS, endometriosis, and PMDD that will not be covered? There seems to be a lot of drugs that could be used, including Provera, Seasonique, Ortho Tri-Cyclen, and a lot more. Have you read anything that indicates that these drugs will not be covered?
    07-02-2014 05:07 PM
  11. Scott7217's Avatar
    Writing a few letters and petitions won't change the way our society works anytime soon.
    I am open to suggestions. What are our options, preferably ones that don't involve violence?
    07-02-2014 05:10 PM
  12. nolittdroid's Avatar
    I still think one of the biggest flaws of the ACA is that the GOP didn't like single payer (which a good percentage of the public did in fact want). If we had a single payer system, we wouldn't have such challenges in court. Granted, the Hobby Lobby challenge isn't really about religious freedoms. This case is pretty much the right wing's continued attempt at dismantling the ACA. The saddest part is that they are using religion to undermine the law, which is pretty much as hypocritically evil as it can get. The message these religious fanatics are sending is that they don't care to see millions of people receive healthcare. If that's not evil then I don't know what is.
    Let's be real for a second. Does anyone actually think this suit was about religious freedom? This suit was about trying to drive a chink into the ACA. All the GOP has cared about for the past few years has been repealing the ACA/Obamacare with every single negotiation they have with the Democrats...so are we really supposed to believe this was about religious freedom? Do they think we're that stupid? This was about legal precedent.

    These people are saying I still have options...but If I'm paying for insurance out of MY paycheck why should I have to go to Planned Parenthood just to get certain medication just because my boss can't read or do some research? Why do we CONTINUE TO REWARD WILLFUL IGNORANCE?

    It also is absolutely despicable that a business peddling cheap arts&crafts thinks they're above the ACA. The ACA was designed to protect families and their reproductive choices. Businesses exist to make money. These good Christian folks overlook(ignore) the fact that many, many women who have abortions are already married with children. Or that many, many of these women are married and already on birth control to treat completely separate issues. Can someone please explain to me why I CARE if you have an issue with what I'm taking my medication for? I'm the one paying for it! No one is freaking out that ED meds are sometimes prescribed for vascular issues.

    I mean, we have someone commenting who insinuated that women take birth control for recreational purposes. We have someone saying we should check our bible like 83% of the rest of the country.... We clearly have a very big issue with education & religion in this country. This lack of education just kind of perpetuates the issue. We have men who have never been pregnant a day in their lives, or experienced PCOS/etc...wait a second we have men who don't even know these issues exist...or that birth control fixes it. Because they read the bible. Is it just me, or is this terrifying? We actually allow people like this to make decisions for us?
    A895 and msndrstood like this.
    07-02-2014 05:13 PM
  13. Scott7217's Avatar
    So if I hold a Satanism rally I shouldn't be looked down upon right?
    There is no guarantee of approval or disapproval from other people, but this would apply to any religion. For example, some Christian denominations look down on other Christian denominations.
    07-02-2014 05:15 PM
  14. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Nothing wrong with teaching it in the classrooms, as 83% of Americans are Christians. It is also taught in the Bible.
    Only if we force churches to teach evolution.

    It reminds me of when Congress brought in a bunch of MEN to do the talking for WOMEN'S REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH. What's sad is that they saw nothing wrong with it.

    Attachment 125890
    By your logic, any thoughts and opinions on the trucking industry are null and void because you're not a trucker.

    If a company wants to be a publicly traded company then they can't try to skirt the law in the name of religion.
    All the reports I'm seeing claim Hobby Lobby isn't a publicly traded company, so... What's your point there?
    Scott7217 likes this.
    07-02-2014 05:24 PM
  15. anon8126715's Avatar
    Let's be real for a second. Does anyone actually think this suit was about religious freedom? This suit was about trying to drive a chink into the ACA. All the GOP has cared about for the past few years has been repealing the ACA/Obamacare with every single negotiation they have with the Democrats...so are we really supposed to believe this was about religious freedom? Do they think we're that stupid? This was about legal precedent.

    These people are saying I still have options...but If I'm paying for insurance out of MY paycheck why should I have to go to Planned Parenthood just to get certain medication just because my boss can't read or do some research? Why do we CONTINUE TO REWARD WILLFUL IGNORANCE?

    It also is absolutely despicable that a business peddling cheap arts&crafts thinks they're above the ACA. The ACA was designed to protect families and their reproductive choices. Businesses exist to make money. These good Christian folks overlook(ignore) the fact that many, many women who have abortions are already married with children. Or that many, many of these women are married and already on birth control to treat completely separate issues. Can someone please explain to me why I CARE if you have an issue with what I'm taking my medication for? I'm the one paying for it! No one is freaking out that ED meds are sometimes prescribed for vascular issues.

    I mean, we have someone commenting who insinuated that women take birth control for recreational purposes. We have someone saying we should check our bible like 83% of the rest of the country.... We clearly have a very big issue with education & religion in this country. This lack of education just kind of perpetuates the issue. We have men who have never been pregnant a day in their lives, or experienced PCOS/etc...wait a second we have men who don't even know these issues exist...or that birth control fixes it. Because they read the bible. Is it just me, or is this terrifying? We actually allow people like this to make decisions for us?
    The only way to end it I guess is come November. The other thing I'll add is those that bring up the talking point, "Why should I pay for your ______?", (that argument is pretty much coming from the right wing windbags (rush limbaugh, hannity, et al and their echo chamber) those people fail to see that we as a SOCIETY pay for things ALL THE TIME that we don't see instant/immediate self-gratification out of. If I could only pay for things that only benefited me, then we wouldn't be living in a society, we'd be living in isolation. I guess some people can't see the forest for the trees.
    nolittdroid likes this.
    07-02-2014 05:35 PM
  16. Scott7217's Avatar
    This was about legal precedent.
    Supreme Court cases are all about setting precedent. This is why people follow their decisions closely.

    It's interesting to note, had this case come up earlier, the ruling would probably be very different. The Supreme Court previously believed that people couldn't use religion as an excuse not to follow generally applicable laws. Justice Scalia once said:

    "To permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself." Employment Division, Department of Human Resources of Oregon vs. Smith, 494 U.S. 872 (1990)
    07-02-2014 05:39 PM
  17. anon8126715's Avatar
    By your logic, any thoughts and opinions on the trucking industry are null and void because you're not a trucker.
    Yes because driving a truck is EXACTLY like having a female reproductive system.... This android facepalm is for you.... Hobby Lobby case...-android-facepalm-thumb.jpg


    All the reports I'm seeing claim Hobby Lobby isn't a publicly traded company, so... What's your point there?
    Not in the sense of the stock market, in the sense that they sell their goods to the public. They have to abide by certain government laws. Granted their recent court win demonstrates that they don't, if they can site to their religious handbook that conflicts with that portion of regulation.
    A895 and nolittdroid like this.
    07-02-2014 05:42 PM
  18. Aquila's Avatar
    I wonder why there wasn't an option for Hobby Lobby to not provide insurance and just give each employee $20,000 a raise more in income or whatever 180% of the median cost of healthcare expenses is for an average family and let them purchase whatever coverage the individual wants and eschew whatever coverage the individual does not want.
    A895 and nolittdroid like this.
    07-02-2014 05:45 PM
  19. anon8126715's Avatar
    Supreme Court cases are all about setting precedent. This is why people follow their decisions closely.

    It's interesting to note, had this case come up earlier, the ruling would probably be very different. The Supreme Court previously believed that people couldn't use religion as an excuse not to follow generally applicable laws. Justice Scalia once said:

    "To permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself." Employment Division, Department of Human Resources of Oregon vs. Smith, 494 U.S. 872 (1990)
    I find Justice Scalia to be somewhat of a troll with some of his quotes. He also has some of the characteristics of a sexual deviant. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he had some very deeply buried skeletons in his closet that conflicted with his conservative facade.
    07-02-2014 05:46 PM
  20. anon8126715's Avatar
    I wonder why there wasn't an option for Hobby Lobby to not provide insurance and just give each employee $20,000 a raise more in income or whatever 180% of the median cost of healthcare expenses is for an average family and let them purchase whatever coverage the individual wants and eschew whatever coverage the individual does not want.
    Only if Hobby Lobby was acting sincerely and not just trying to undermine the ACA.

    When you consider ALL the coverage that they would have to provide to their employees, how convenient of them to have issue with this particular line of drugs. Never mind that some drugs have posed severe side-effects to its users, lets go after the ones that will garner the most right-wing support.
    A895 likes this.
    07-02-2014 05:47 PM
  21. Scott7217's Avatar
    I find Justice Scalia to be somewhat of a troll with some of his quotes.
    I don't have to like Justice Scalia as a person either, but I think a lot of people on this forum agree with Scalia's statement that I quoted.

    Basically, people can't use religion as an excuse to not follow the law. So, if Hobby Lobby's case came up earlier, they would lose because for-profit companies are required by the Affordable Care Act to pay for contraceptives.

    Hobby Lobby only wins because there have been legal precedents since Scalia made his statement that change the rules.
    07-02-2014 05:58 PM
  22. toober's Avatar
    Why do we CONTINUE TO REWARD WILLFUL IGNORANCE?
    Because people like you continue to give false information and present your opinions as fact.

    These good Christian folks overlook(ignore) the fact that many, many women who have abortions are already married with children.
    Let us look for a minute at some actual numbers and see if this is true.
    https://www.prochoice.org/about_abor...women_who.html
    Most women getting abortions (83%) are unmarried; 67% have never married, and 16% are separated, divorced, or widowed. Married women are significantly less likely than unmarried women to resolve unintended pregnancies through abortion.
    I don't know what your definition of "many, many" may be, but the 17% that's left over after you remove unmarried people does not seem like that much. I wish they would also give a number on how many of the married women got abortions as a result of extramarital affairs and are hiding it from their husband. I'm sure we could whittle down the "many, many" a bit more.

    I mean, we have someone commenting who insinuated that women take birth control for recreational purposes.
    No, I said women were having sex for recreational purposes. As I have repeatedly stated, if the sex is not for procreation, it is for recreation.

    We have men who have never been pregnant a day in their lives, or experienced PCOS/etc...wait a second we have men who don't even know these issues exist...or that birth control fixes it.
    I have seen the effects of endometriosis on a close friend as well as one of my sisters. I am familiar with it and what they can do to treat it. You will never see me post that any treatment for such a painful condition should not be covered by health insurance.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    07-02-2014 06:15 PM
  23. anon8126715's Avatar
    No, I said women were having sex for recreational purposes. As I have repeatedly stated, if the sex is not for procreation, it is for recreation.
    Lets say this is true (and how convenient of you to overlook the fact that MEN also have sex for recreation but when they have an "accident", how much easier it is for them to run away from the responsibility leaving a woman in a helpless vulnerable position), what business is it of yours? On what authority are you allowed to be a "moral compass" for the rest of us?

    Like I said, I don't believe it for one minute that this has anything to do with morality or who's paying for what. This has everything to do with trying to destroy the ACA.
    nolittdroid and msndrstood like this.
    07-02-2014 06:31 PM
  24. toober's Avatar
    Lets say this is true
    Yes, let us say that, mostly because it is true, but also because I like it when we agree.

    (and how convenient of you to overlook the fact that MEN also have sex for recreation but when they have an "accident", how much easier it is for them to run away from the responsibility leaving a woman in a helpless vulnerable position)
    Yes, men also have recreational sex and should be held responsible for any unforseen consequenxe of that behavior. Men need to realize that each and every time they have sex, whether it be in a relationship or a fling, thre is possibility of creating a life that they will have to take responsibility for. People should realize that there is more to being a man than just owning a *****.

    what business is it of yours?
    None at all. Until you ask me to foot the bill for your recreational behaviors. I don't ask anyone to pay for my cholesterol meds from my obsession with bacon. I'll pay for my own chemo when I get cancer from 30+ years of smoking. I'll never ask anyone to pay a dime to cover the treatments for anything I decide to do. So please tell me why I or anyone else should pay for someone's recreational activities?

    Like I said, I don't believe it for one minute that this has anything to do with morality or who's paying for what. This has everything to do with trying to destroy the ACA.
    I can't speak to the motives in this case, but it may simply be that they felt they have compromised enough. There is a point, and it's different from person to person, when you feel that you've given enough and cannot give any more.
    07-02-2014 06:59 PM
  25. pappy53's Avatar
    Let's be real for a second. Does anyone actually think this suit was about religious freedom? This suit was about trying to drive a chink into the ACA. All the GOP has cared about for the past few years has been repealing the ACA/Obamacare with every single negotiation they have with the Democrats...so are we really supposed to believe this was about religious freedom? Do they think we're that stupid? This was about legal precedent.

    These people are saying I still have options...but If I'm paying for insurance out of MY paycheck why should I have to go to Planned Parenthood just to get certain medication just because my boss can't read or do some research? Why do we CONTINUE TO REWARD WILLFUL IGNORANCE?

    It also is absolutely despicable that a business peddling cheap arts&crafts thinks they're above the ACA. The ACA was designed to protect families and their reproductive choices. Businesses exist to make money. These good Christian folks overlook(ignore) the fact that many, many women who have abortions are already married with children. Or that many, many of these women are married and already on birth control to treat completely separate issues. Can someone please explain to me why I CARE if you have an issue with what I'm taking my medication for? I'm the one paying for it! No one is freaking out that ED meds are sometimes prescribed for vascular issues.

    I mean, we have someone commenting who insinuated that women take birth control for recreational purposes. We have someone saying we should check our bible like 83% of the rest of the country.... We clearly have a very big issue with education & religion in this country. This lack of education just kind of perpetuates the issue. We have men who have never been pregnant a day in their lives, or experienced PCOS/etc...wait a second we have men who don't even know these issues exist...or that birth control fixes it. Because they read the bible. Is it just me, or is this terrifying? We actually allow people like this to make decisions for us?
    So Hobby Lobby is in a conspiracy theory? LOL! /smh


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    07-02-2014 07:19 PM
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