07-18-2014 04:07 PM
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  1. anon8126715's Avatar
    To be clear, individuals have freedom of religion. Corporations are made up of individuals. Should individuals lose their right to freedom of religion just because they form a group?
    The group is amassed for a common financial interest. What if the group wanted to amass like minded individuals and decided to discriminate against anyone that didn't practice the same religion they did, then would they not be in violation of laws against discriminating on the basis of religion? If a company wants to be a publicly traded company then they can't try to skirt the law in the name of religion. Why not create a church that believes in not being taxed and not having financial liabilities?
    07-02-2014 03:19 PM
  2. anon8126715's Avatar
    So, people on here can put down creationism and the Bible, but I can't defend it? It looks like 83% of citizens believe it as fact.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Umm, be honest, 83 is the number of your favorite professional athlete isn't it? There's no way that 83% of Americans believe the bible. I would go so far to say that I bet 83% of all citizens haven't even read the bible.
    nolittdroid, A895 and msndrstood like this.
    07-02-2014 03:20 PM
  3. toober's Avatar
    Says the guy that thinks some forms of birth control are for recreational use.... "Yeah I spend about 2 hours at the recreation center, and in between my Pilates and my Yoga class, I pop a couple of birth control pills...." You must be real popular with the ladies.....
    What I said was that sex not for procreation is for recreation. If your intent is not making babies, you're just poking around for fun.
    07-02-2014 03:22 PM
  4. anon8126715's Avatar
    You're darn skippy. Well, my company does (I don't own my own truck). If you knew all the taxes trucking companies paid in to the highway trust fund and other state usage fees, your jaw would drop. I'm not saying we own the roads, but we pay the majority of their costs.
    The only reason my jaw would drop would be because the amounts paid wouldn't be nearly enough to cover the costs of your industry using the roads. And I'm not just referring to the upkeep required (which doesn't amount to much since our roads are crumbling regardless) but also to all the gridlock caused by boneheaded truck drivers driving on the left lane bottle necking traffic because they're too inept to drive, or the ones that get into accidents that tie up rush hour traffic, or the ones that are posing a safety hazard by driving with practically bald tires. You're right, my jaw would drop if we added up all the costs those trucks cost vs how much they pay into the system.
    07-02-2014 03:27 PM
  5. anon8126715's Avatar
    What I said was that sex not for procreation is for recreation. If your intent is not making babies, you're just poking around for fun.
    We all know what you said....

    Just to be clear, we are not talking about what women need, but their recreational activities.

    Now about that brain vacation you were asking about, is it possible that it made travel arrangements without you?
    07-02-2014 03:33 PM
  6. Scott7217's Avatar
    Thank you for sharing that article about the benefits of hormone therapy. The article you cited lists these drugs by name:

    Desogen
    Mircette
    Ortho Tri-Cyclen
    Seasonique
    Yasmin
    Yaz

    So far, I haven't found anything that says Hobby Lobby is against those drugs. If you have more information that says otherwise, that would be helpful.
    07-02-2014 03:38 PM
  7. Scott7217's Avatar
    I mean there are a variety of uses for antidepressants but we don't distinguish coverage.
    The reason why is because the Affordable Care Act does not have an exemption for antidepressants, but it does have one for contraceptives.
    07-02-2014 03:42 PM
  8. anon8126715's Avatar
    The reason why is because the Affordable Care Act does not have an exemption for antidepressants, but it does have one for contraceptives.
    Seems as if they had no exemption for "recreational contraceptives", maybe they wouldn't need to dispense so many antidepressants....?!?!?!
    nolittdroid and A895 like this.
    07-02-2014 03:46 PM
  9. Scott7217's Avatar
    Rights under the ACA which is a law.
    People also have rights under the 1993 Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), which the Supreme Court used in its decision to vote in favor of Hobby Lobby.

    Just think, if Bill Clinton didn't sign the RFRA into law, we probably wouldn't be having a debate about Hobby Lobby. Hobby Lobby would have lost its case.
    07-02-2014 03:47 PM
  10. toober's Avatar
    We all know what you said....




    Now about that brain vacation you were asking about, is it possible that it made travel arrangements without you?
    And my point was further clarified in a later post. But if it helps you feel better about yourself, I'll say you got me on that one if you want.
    07-02-2014 03:49 PM
  11. pappy53's Avatar
    Umm, be honest, 83 is the number of your favorite professional athlete isn't it? There's no way that 83% of Americans believe the bible. I would go so far to say that I bet 83% of all citizens haven't even read the bible.
    Do me a favor and don't be condescending towards me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    07-02-2014 03:53 PM
  12. Scott7217's Avatar
    Nowhere did I mention the Constitution
    However, the Constitution is in force, whether you mention it or not. The Supreme Court must determine whether laws are constitutional or not whenever it makes a decision.
    07-02-2014 03:53 PM
  13. Scott7217's Avatar
    So if I get hurt off the clock company health care shouldn't cover me?
    Hobby Lobby has not said that injuries outside of work will not be covered by insurance.
    07-02-2014 03:56 PM
  14. Scott7217's Avatar
    So I care to practice Satanism I am protected under the Amendment just as well?
    As far as I can tell, yes, even Satanism would be protected under the First Amendment.
    07-02-2014 03:58 PM
  15. anon8126715's Avatar
    Do me a favor and don't be condescending towards me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It's not towards you, it's towards your arrogance in your belief that 83% of the U.S. population are christians and believe in the bible. It's that same arrogance that tries to force your belief system onto other people regardless of the consequence to individual freedoms. My condescension has more to do with people insisting that their morality is better than someone else's morality.

    The most morally admiral people I've ever met in my life do not make it their life's mission to try and force their morality onto other people. They are humble about their morality and do not try to impose their belief system onto others. My condescension is in response to your belief that your belief system needs to be forced upon others.
    nolittdroid, A895 and msndrstood like this.
    07-02-2014 04:05 PM
  16. Scott7217's Avatar
    What's irritating to me is that the Democrats don't necessarily fight for what I believe is important either.
    I am also surprised that Democrats don't do more. I'm not sure if they simply don't have the will, they're disorganized, or something else.
    07-02-2014 04:06 PM
  17. Scott7217's Avatar
    I thought a good Christian woman was supposed to submit to her husband?
    I have never claimed that. Can you explain what you mean by that statement?
    07-02-2014 04:12 PM
  18. pappy53's Avatar
    It's not towards you, it's towards your arrogance in your belief that 83% of the U.S. population are christians and believe in the bible. It's that same arrogance that tries to force your belief system onto other people regardless of the consequence to individual freedoms. My condescension has more to do with people insisting that their morality is better than someone else's morality.

    The most morally admiral people I've ever met in my life do not make it their life's mission to try and force their morality onto other people. They are humble about their morality and do not try to impose their belief system onto others. My condescension is in response to your belief that your belief system needs to be forced upon others.
    I haven't tried to impose anything on you. All I did was issue a rebuttal to your initial statements about the Bible and believers. I got my 83% from Google.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    07-02-2014 04:13 PM
  19. anon8126715's Avatar
    I am also surprised that Democrats don't do more. I'm not sure if they simply don't have the will, they're disorganized, or something else.
    They're ultimately looking out for their financial backers. Those same financial backers are generally big business. One of the reasons that Citizens United needs to be repealed (and not just because the name is full of folly) is because it gives these entities with deep pockets more political leverage.
    07-02-2014 04:16 PM
  20. Scott7217's Avatar
    And the Catholics don't believe in birth control, because it prevents procreation...which is it?
    Technically speaking, Catholics are allowed to use natural family planning as birth control. This limits intercourse to times when the woman is less likely to be fertile, depending on her menstrual cycle. Not everyone likes that idea, which is why people don't have to believe in Catholicism if they don't want to.

    By the way, the owners of Hobby Lobby are not Catholic.
    07-02-2014 04:20 PM
  21. Scott7217's Avatar
    What if the group wanted to amass like minded individuals and decided to discriminate against anyone that didn't practice the same religion they did, then would they not be in violation of laws against discriminating on the basis of religion?
    The law doesn't have an exemption to allow people to discriminate people based on religion. However, the Affordable Care Act has an exemption for contraceptives. This is the key difference.

    If people are unhappy, they can always amend the Affordable Care Act to remove the exemption for contraceptives.
    07-02-2014 04:26 PM
  22. Scott7217's Avatar
    Why not create a church that believes in not being taxed and not having financial liabilities?
    People have tried claiming religious exemption to paying taxes before, and the courts have struck down those requests.
    07-02-2014 04:28 PM
  23. Scott7217's Avatar
    Seems as if they had no exemption for "recreational contraceptives", maybe they wouldn't need to dispense so many antidepressants....?!?!?!
    Well, I've always heard that Hobby Lobby pays for 16 kinds of contraceptives, so perhaps one of those would be useful.
    07-02-2014 04:31 PM
  24. Scott7217's Avatar
    They're ultimately looking out for their financial backers.
    This is a problem with politics in general. It makes me wonder why people vote for the same politicians, over and over again.
    07-02-2014 04:35 PM
  25. anon8126715's Avatar
    I still think one of the biggest flaws of the ACA is that the GOP didn't like single payer (which a good percentage of the public did in fact want). If we had a single payer system, we wouldn't have such challenges in court. Granted, the Hobby Lobby challenge isn't really about religious freedoms. This case is pretty much the right wing's continued attempt at dismantling the ACA. The saddest part is that they are using religion to undermine the law, which is pretty much as hypocritically evil as it can get. The message these religious fanatics are sending is that they don't care to see millions of people receive healthcare. If that's not evil then I don't know what is.
    07-02-2014 04:35 PM
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