12-02-2014 08:42 PM
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  1. Mooncatt's Avatar
    When it comes to use of force, even lethal, officers are trained to apply such force until the threat is neutralized. No cop is going to shoot someone, then pause to see if the person was simply grazed before shooting a second time. When a cop shoots, they shoot to kill. Doing otherwise or delaying can allow the perp to attack.
    11-15-2014 05:07 PM
  2. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I don't think any lethal law covers multiple gunshots to the from of the body. That is why this case does not add up. Of all things nothing justifies shooting someone multiple times.

    That seems like intent to murder to me.
    You hold a gun against someone bum rushing you that you believe wants to kill you and see how many times you pull the trigger. I am surprised he didn't empty the clip...

    Sent from my XT1096
    11-15-2014 05:17 PM
  3. A895's Avatar
    You hold a gun against someone bum rushing you that you believe wants to kill you and see how many times you pull the trigger. I am surprised he didn't empty the clip...

    Sent from my XT1096
    Are you serious?
    11-15-2014 05:23 PM
  4. A895's Avatar
    When it comes to use of force, even lethal, officers are trained to apply such force until the threat is neutralized. No cop is going to shoot someone, then pause to see if the person was simply grazed before shooting a second time. When a cop shoots, they shoot to kill. Doing otherwise or delaying can allow the perp to attack.
    I wouldn't shoot to kill if it was me, but maybe I am the only sane one around here.
    11-15-2014 05:23 PM
  5. palandri's Avatar
    This boycott being called for isn't going to help the situation at all.

    Ferguson white business boycott planned - CNN.com Video
    11-15-2014 05:36 PM
  6. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I wouldn't shoot to kill if it was me, but maybe I am the only sane one around here.
    You NEVER shoot to wound. If you pull a gun, you intend to do whatever it takes to neutralize the threat. That means shooting for the center of mass. Ask anyone that has ever had any sort of self defense training. You have a split second to make a decision that will determine whether you live or die. You don't have time to place shots or be choosy.

    Sent from my XT1096
    JnEricsonx likes this.
    11-15-2014 05:48 PM
  7. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I wouldn't shoot to kill if it was me, but maybe I am the only sane one around here.
    If you shoot to only wound, and that results death (all gun training instructs to go for "center mass" for greater chance of hitting your target, but also means more vital organs), then you just opened yourself up to prosecution and wrongful death lawsuits. If you shoot to wound, then the question of if you should have shot at all comes into play. I'm not insinuating you're insane like you did to everyone that disagrees with you. It sounds like you just aren't very educated on firearm training.
    11-15-2014 05:50 PM
  8. A895's Avatar
    You NEVER shoot to wound. If you pull a gun, you intend to do whatever it takes to neutralize the threat. That means shooting for the center of mass. Ask anyone that has ever had any sort of self defense training. You have a split second to make a decision that will determine whether you live or die. You don't have time to place shots or be choosy.

    Sent from my XT1096
    Why wouldn't you shoot to wound? So you are basically allowing people to kill someone just because they feel threatened? Who still do not have conclusive proof he attacked the officer. I would shoot in the leg at least. Not shooting someone dead and that still does not explain the 2 bullets to the head and the other 4.

    As I said before nothing is adding up.
    11-15-2014 05:52 PM
  9. palandri's Avatar
    A couple of other things still bother me about Ferguson.

    1. Why they haven't made major changes to the police department, given the disconnect between the police and community. You don't have to fire the cheif and the officers, just lay them off and tell them that the city is going a different dirrection and put the Highway Patrol in charge until all the changes are made.

    2. Why the governor didn't appoint a special prosecutor is beyond me. It would take all the pressure off the current attorney general that the community doesn't have a lot of trust in.
    11-15-2014 05:54 PM
  10. A895's Avatar
    If you shoot to only wound, and that results death (all gun training instructs to go for "center mass" for greater chance of hitting your target, but also means more vital organs), then you just opened yourself up to prosecution and wrongful death lawsuits. If you shoot to wound, then the question of if you should have shot at all comes into play. I'm not insinuating you're insane like you did to everyone that disagrees with you. It sounds like you just aren't very educated on firearm training.
    Firearm training? Are we not talking about a public servant? Are we going to just toss aside conflicting reports and 6 bullets and 2 of them in someones head? We can go back and forth all day I don't see a reasonable excuse to shoot someone 6 times no matter the situation.
    11-15-2014 05:54 PM
  11. palandri's Avatar
    You NEVER shoot to wound. If you pull a gun, you intend to do whatever it takes to neutralize the threat. That means shooting for the center of mass. Ask anyone that has ever had any sort of self defense training. You have a split second to make a decision that will determine whether you live or die. You don't have time to place shots or be choosy.

    Sent from my XT1096
    What you said is correct, but I think non-lethal tazers need to used more often. Over on YouTube there are all kinds of videos of police shooting mentally ill people with a knife. One is even in a wheelchair.
    A895 likes this.
    11-15-2014 05:58 PM
  12. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Why wouldn't you shoot to wound? So you are basically allowing people to kill someone just because they feel threatened? Who still do not have conclusive proof he attacked the officer. I would shoot in the leg at least. Not shooting someone dead and that still does not explain the 2 bullets to the head and the other 4.

    As I said before nothing is adding up.
    You shoot to stop the attacker. What stops the attacker usually also kills them.

    If you shoot for the legs you will probably miss. Even if you hit, you are not guaranteed to stop them.

    It is up to the jury. I have not seen all that the jury has seen. I believe that we've the official autopsy results were leaked? Not actually posted. So we do not know everything they do.

    Sent from my XT1096
    11-15-2014 06:00 PM
  13. palandri's Avatar
    .... I don't see a reasonable excuse to shoot someone 6 times no matter the situation.
    I understand what you're saying and it makes sense, but when adrenaline takes over due to fear. I could see someone unloading a whole clip and not even realizing it.
    11-15-2014 06:01 PM
  14. A895's Avatar
    You shoot to stop the attacker. What stops the attacker usually also kills them.

    If you shoot for the legs you will probably miss. Even if you hit, you are not guaranteed to stop them.

    It is up to the jury. I have not seen all that the jury has seen. I believe that we've the official autopsy results were leaked? Not actually posted. So we do not know everything they do.

    Sent from my XT1096
    What also can stop the attacker is wounding them too.
    11-15-2014 06:23 PM
  15. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I would shoot in the leg at least.
    You watch too many movies if you think even a crack shot officer can regularly shoot someone in the leg on purpose while said person is in motion. Not going to happen.
    11-15-2014 06:24 PM
  16. A895's Avatar
    I understand what you're saying and it makes sense, but when adrenaline takes over due to fear. I could see someone unloading a whole clip and not even realizing it.
    Isn't that why police officers are trained to handle specific situations like that? If a cop can get off the hook for shooting citizens 6 times, what message does that send to a community that is already distrustful of the local police force?

    This will create a greater disparity between civil servants and the people they serve.
    palandri likes this.
    11-15-2014 06:25 PM
  17. A895's Avatar
    You watch too many movies if you think even a crack shot officer can regularly shoot someone in the leg on purpose while said person is in motion. Not going to happen.
    We have no conclusive proof he WAS attacking the officer, there is now evidence the officer was not even injured when he was supposedly attacked.
    palandri likes this.
    11-15-2014 06:26 PM
  18. NoYankees44's Avatar
    What you said is correct, but I think non-lethal tazers need to used more often. Over on YouTube there are all kinds of videos of police shooting mentally ill people with a knife. One is even in a wheelchair.
    And I think it is a great idea to take another look at the laws and training associated with these situations, but that is another conversation.

    Of Brown truly tried to get the cop's gun, then all bets are off. At that point, Brown brought the gun into the situation.

    Sent from my XT1096
    palandri likes this.
    11-15-2014 06:35 PM
  19. Mooncatt's Avatar
    We have no conclusive proof he WAS attacking the officer, there is now evidence the officer was not even injured when he was supposedly attacked.
    That doesn't change how to shoot someone. Granted, there is a debate as to if he should have shot. I'll give you that. But in the context of making the choice to use a gun, you never just try to wound someone or pull off the shot of the century by aiming for a limb. That was the point being made earlier.
    palandri likes this.
    11-15-2014 06:36 PM
  20. A895's Avatar
    That doesn't change how to shoot someone. Granted, there is a debate as to if he should have shot. I'll give you that. But in the context of making the choice to use a gun, you never just try to wound someone or pull off the shot of the century by aiming for a limb. That was the point being made earlier.
    My point is that shooting someone with lethal force seems a little extreme in context. Brown was unarmed.
    palandri likes this.
    11-15-2014 06:38 PM
  21. palandri's Avatar
    Isn't that why police officers are trained to handle specific situations like that? If a cop can get off the hook for shooting citizens 6 times, what message does that send to a community that is already distrustful of the local police force?

    This will create a greater disparity between civil servants and the people they serve.
    I don't disagree with what your saying, but I know what happens when adrenaline takes over. Here's what happened to me.

    I was about 25 at the time. I was walking through a shopping mall parking lot and I heard some women (about 40) screaming stop him, stop him. I turned and I saw a guy about 20 years old smacking the women around and trying to get away from them. He finally got away from them and ran to his car. I ran over to get his license plate number. He then saw that I was following him just as he was getting into his car. He then came at me with a screwdriver. I tackled him at the waist hard and he dropped the screwdriver. The next thing I knew is a guy was pulling me off him sayng that's enough, that's enough. I said I only hit him a couple of times and the guy replied you smacked him about 25 times. The cops came, I gave my statement, but I was as high as kite off the adrenaline. The guy had stolen merchandise and had a long criminal record.
    NoYankees44 likes this.
    11-15-2014 06:46 PM
  22. palandri's Avatar
    And I think it is a great idea to take another look at the laws and training associated with these situations, but that is another conversation.

    Of Brown truly tried to get the cop's gun, then all bets are off. At that point, Brown brought the gun into the situation.

    Sent from my XT1096
    I don't disagree.
    NoYankees44 likes this.
    11-15-2014 06:49 PM
  23. Mooncatt's Avatar
    My point is that shooting someone with lethal force seems a little extreme in context. Brown was unarmed.
    You also said you'd shoot to wound, which isn't a feasible option in any situation. If you draw a gun, you better be prepared to kill the person.
    11-15-2014 06:51 PM
  24. palandri's Avatar
    My point is that shooting someone with lethal force seems a little extreme in context. Brown was unarmed.
    A tazer would have made all the difference.
    A895 likes this.
    11-15-2014 07:07 PM
  25. A895's Avatar
    You also said you'd shoot to wound, which isn't a feasible option in any situation. If you draw a gun, you better be prepared to kill the person.
    Why? It seems so archaic in 2014 going into 2015, that a cop does not have alternative ways to handle suspects besides shooting them to death.
    palandri likes this.
    11-15-2014 07:41 PM
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