12-02-2014 08:42 PM
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  1. palandri's Avatar
    What Brown would have done is speculative.

    So let me get this straight because this is what you are inferring. A police officer asking someone to walk on the side walk and not in the middle of the street is provocation? ....
    You must not have read what I wrote. No where did I say asking someone to walk on the sidewalk is a provocation.

    ...Early reports were Wilson didn't know about the the robbery. Grand jury testimony revealed he was aware and both men fit the description. Should he ignore that as well? Just let it go because we don't want to upset anyone and they were just cigarillos. Besides the store owner only got shoved around have the crap scared out of him....
    How smart is it for Wilson to try and stop two male suspects in a strong armed robbery, with one being twice his size by himself? That's pretty stupid if you ask me. You call for backup before taking any action.

    ...Punching a cop and trying to take his gun would escalate to getting shot, that much is clear in any city. It resulted in a justifiable use if force. You seem to want to jump from A to D and ignore B and C.
    Once again you have to ask, would that have happened if 4 cops were on the scene?
    A895 likes this.
    11-25-2014 07:42 PM
  2. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Once again you have to ask, would that have happened if 4 cops were on the scene?
    That doesn't matter. The situation has to be addressed as it happened, with only the one officer. People can argue until the cows come home *why* Michael Brown was reaching inside the car (and I'm guessing it's not because he wanted to give Wilson a big hug), but there's no disputing that he was. That's a severe threat to get that close to a cop in such close quarters.

    When you corner a dog, don't be surprised when you get bit.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    11-25-2014 08:04 PM
  3. palandri's Avatar
    Answer this very simple yes or no question. If you walked up to the next squad car you see on the street and start decking the cop in the head and trying to take his gun, do expect to have a reasonable chance of making it out alive? Its a simple yes you do or no you don't question?
    If you're in court and an attorney demands you answer a question with a simple yes or no, if you look at the judge and tell him you cant give a qualitative answer with a simple yes or no, the judge wont require you to answer it with a simple yes or no. I see where you are going with this and I can't give you a qualitative answer with a simple yes or no.
    11-25-2014 08:07 PM
  4. NoYankees44's Avatar
    You must not have read what I wrote. No where did I say asking someone to walk on the sidewalk is a provocation.



    How smart is it for Wilson to try and stop two male suspects in a strong armed robbery, with one being twice his size by himself? That's pretty stupid if you ask me. You call for backup before taking any action.



    Once again you have to ask, would that have happened if 4 cops were on the scene?
    He called for backup twice apparently. Once before he confronted the men and once before he pursued. He said in his testimony that he didn't intend to confront Brown when he pursued, just keep track of him. Then brown saw him and turned back.

    Waiting on backup before pursuing would have been smart, but it is not necessarily a poor judgment call. It was just not the best call. Plus he was just attacked and his gun already went off. I am sure adrenaline played a large factor.

    And I am not sure how a greater force being there to deter Brown's actions somehow justify his aggression. Brown resisted arrest and assaulted and officer. I am not saying he deserved death, but stuff happens. Sucks, but it happens.

    Sent from my XT1096
    Scott7217 likes this.
    11-25-2014 08:13 PM
  5. palandri's Avatar
    That doesn't matter. The situation has to be addressed as it happened, with only the one officer. People can argue until the cows come home *why* Michael Brown was reaching inside the car (and I'm guessing it's not because he wanted to give Wilson a big hug), but there's no disputing that he was. That's a severe threat to get that close to a cop in such close quarters.

    When you corner a dog, don't be surprised when you get bit.
    Yes it does matter.

    The situation does not require action by one officer. It's stupid for one officer to try and stop two male suspects in a strong armed robbery, with one being twice his size by himself. Are you thinking of a white knight in shining armor on a white horse?
    11-25-2014 08:17 PM
  6. A895's Avatar
    Did you assault the toy store owner and terrorize him?
    Does not make him a thug. Don't call someone something you don't know the defintion of. I saw the video he grabbed the rellos and pushed the owner (didn't fall) and ran. Is he an *****? Yes. But is he a thug based on that act alone? Hell, no. And no matter what you say you can't change the definition of a thug (which Brown isn't).

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    11-25-2014 08:22 PM
  7. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Exactly why Brown is dead now.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    Even if he had one, that does not mean he would have grabbed it. Nor does it mean that he necessarily should have been expected to.

    Put yourself in his shoes. He was just assaulted and his gun already went off. Would you think "I had better holster my gun and grab my taser!"?

    The only better option for this cop was to wait for backup.

    Sent from my XT1096
    Scott7217 likes this.
    11-25-2014 08:22 PM
  8. A895's Avatar
    That doesn't matter. The situation has to be addressed as it happened, with only the one officer. People can argue until the cows come home *why* Michael Brown was reaching inside the car (and I'm guessing it's not because he wanted to give Wilson a big hug), but there's no disputing that he was. That's a severe threat to get that close to a cop in such close quarters.

    When you corner a dog, don't be surprised when you get bit.
    Nothing justices 6 shots to the body with 2 to the face, I don't care what story you make up, nothing justifies that. That is inhumane.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    palandri likes this.
    11-25-2014 08:23 PM
  9. A895's Avatar
    He called for backup twice apparently. Once before he confronted the men and once before he pursued. He said in his testimony that he didn't intend to confront Brown when he pursued, just keep track of him. Then brown saw him and turned back.

    Waiting on backup before pursuing would have been smart, but it is not necessarily a poor judgment call. It was just not the best call. Plus he was just attacked and his gun already went off. I am sure adrenaline played a large factor.

    And I am not sure how a greater force being there to deter Brown's actions somehow justify his aggression. Brown resisted arrest and assaulted and officer. I am not saying he deserved death, but stuff happens. Sucks, but it happens.

    Sent from my XT1096
    It should not happen, THATS the point! Do we shrug off cops using lethal force first as "whatever" or do we say something? This is my issue with people who go "meh" at this, it brings the honest question if Brown was white and the cop black what would have been the response to this?

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    11-25-2014 08:26 PM
  10. A895's Avatar
    Even if he had one, that does not mean he would have grabbed it. Nor does it mean that he necessarily should have been expected to.

    Put yourself in his shoes. He was just assaulted and his gun already went off. Would you think "I had better holster my gun and grab my taser!"?

    The only better option for this cop was to wait for backup.

    Sent from my XT1096
    Or if he (hypothetically) was attacked I would punch or grab my baton or tackle a suspect or something. Why is lethal force being allowed in a situation that probably could have been avoided if the cop had a taser? We still don't know the exact details! This is what frustrates me about this whole argument. Who have to go on what the cop said, or go by conflicting witnesses.

    All I know at the end of the day a family lost a son to something that probably could have been avoided.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    11-25-2014 08:28 PM
  11. NoYankees44's Avatar
    It should not happen, THATS the point! Do we shrug off cops using lethal force first as "whatever" or do we say something? This is my issue with people who go "meh" at this, it brings the honest question if Brown was white and the cop black what would have been the response to this?

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    Well it would not have national attention, I can guarantee you that...

    What about this case indicates race was a factor in any way? No one has answered that yet it continues to be this important factor for some reason.

    It would always be better to avoid lethal force, and we should always strive to better our policies, but that does not mean this cop deserves to have his and his family's lives ruined.

    What am I saying, his life is already going to be destroyed. He will never be able have a real job again. His wife probably won't either. His kids will be tormented. The race baiters and the rest of the ignorant that want blood regardless of the facts will make sure of that. He will probably wish he was sent to prison. It might be safer for him.

    Sent from my XT1096
    Scott7217 likes this.
    11-25-2014 08:37 PM
  12. SteveISU's Avatar
    If you're in court and an attorney demands you answer a question with a simple yes or no, if you look at the judge and tell him you cant give a qualitative answer with a simple yes or no, the judge wont require you to answer it with a simple yes or no. I see where you are going with this and I can't give you a qualitative answer with a simple yes or no.
    Nice dodge, we both no the answer. The judge also won't let you get off by not answering the question at all and if you need to elaborate or clarify he will allow. You'd also have to provide a reason why the question can't be answer yes or no.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    11-25-2014 08:39 PM
  13. SteveISU's Avatar
    Does not make him a thug. Don't call someone something you don't know the defintion of. I saw the video he grabbed the rellos and pushed the owner (didn't fall) and ran. Is he an *****? Yes. But is he a thug based on that act alone? Hell, no. And no matter what you say you can't change the definition of a thug (which Brown isn't).

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    My apologies, substitute thug for criminal then.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    11-25-2014 08:41 PM
  14. palandri's Avatar
    ....The only better option for this cop was to wait for backup.

    Sent from my XT1096
    That's key! I remember spotting a stolen boat while I was on patrol in the Coast Guard. There were two of us in the Coast Guard boat and three males in the stolen boat. We took no action until we had backup. We even played stupid and waved at them. The closest backup was the Washington County Sheriff Water Patrol and we took no action until they arrived.
    11-25-2014 08:42 PM
  15. SteveISU's Avatar
    Nothing justices 6 shots to the body with 2 to the face, I don't care what story you make up, nothing justifies that. That is inhumane.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    The law says it does until the threat to the officers life has been eliminated. Whether that be through surrender or necessary use of lethal force.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    11-25-2014 08:43 PM
  16. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Or if he (hypothetically) was attacked I would punch or grab my baton or tackle a suspect or something. Why is lethal force being allowed in a situation that probably could have been avoided if the cop had a taser? We still don't know the exact details! This is what frustrates me about this whole argument. Who have to go on what the cop said, or go by conflicting witnesses.

    All I know at the end of the day a family lost a son to something that probably could have been avoided.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    It's a tragedy, but that does not excuse Brown's actions. He was not completely innocent no matter how you slice it.

    Wilson may not be completely innocent either, but that is why charges are being investigated. There was at least some justification for his actions. Ask anyone that knows anything about self defense. He felt his life was in danger and neutralized the threat. His actions leading up to that point are what are questionable.

    Sent from my XT1096
    Scott7217 likes this.
    11-25-2014 08:49 PM
  17. NoYankees44's Avatar
    That's key! I remember spotting a stolen boat while I was on patrol in the Coast Guard. There were two of us in the Coast Guard boat and three males in the stolen boat. We took no action until we had backup. We even played stupid and waved at them. The closest backup was the Washington County Sheriff Water Patrol and we took no action until they arrived.
    But what does making that worse decision constitute in consequences? It sounds more like consequences with his department than legal consequences to me.

    I am sympathetic to this man because I know that his life is over regardless of what happens legally. As I already said, he will never work as a cop again. He will probably never have a normal job again unless he leaves the country. His best hope for income is to write a book or something.

    Sent from my XT1096
    Scott7217 likes this.
    11-25-2014 08:58 PM
  18. SteveISU's Avatar
    It should not happen, THATS the point! Do we shrug off cops using lethal force first as "whatever" or do we say something? This is my issue with people who go "meh" at this, it brings the honest question if Brown was white and the cop black what would have been the response to this?

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    There was a black cop who killed and unarmed white kid in Utah at the same time, the press was mute. If Brown was white and Wilson was black I'd suspect we'd have a dead white kid and justifiably so.
    11-25-2014 09:11 PM
  19. Mooncatt's Avatar
    This is my issue with people who go "meh" at this, it brings the honest question if Brown was white and the cop black what would have been the response to this?
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...h-man-fatally/

    Crickets chirping from the mainstream media and public at large, that's what.
    11-25-2014 09:11 PM
  20. A895's Avatar
    Well it would not have national attention, I can guarantee you that...

    What about this case indicates race was a factor in any way? No one has answered that yet it continues to be this important factor for some reason.

    It would always be better to avoid lethal force, and we should always strive to better our policies, but that does not mean this cop deserves to have his and his family's lives ruined.

    What am I saying, his life is already going to be destroyed. He will never be able have a real job again. His wife probably won't either. His kids will be tormented. The race baiters and the rest of the ignorant that want blood regardless of the facts will make sure of that. He will probably wish he was sent to prison. It might be safer for him.

    Sent from my XT1096
    Doubtful, if prison inmates find out you were a cop and shot a black man down, yeah it wouldn't be pretty.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    11-25-2014 09:14 PM
  21. A895's Avatar
    My apologies, substitute thug for criminal then.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Petty criminal more than anything. I bet my shoe, the rellos he grabbed were not worth more than $20. They cost a $1 a pop (source: bought rellos before).

    Posted via the Android Central App
    11-25-2014 09:16 PM
  22. A895's Avatar
    The law says it does until the threat to the officers life has been eliminated. Whether that be through surrender or necessary use of lethal force.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    You can justify 6 shots, no matter what you spin.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    11-25-2014 09:17 PM
  23. A895's Avatar
    It's a tragedy, but that does not excuse Brown's actions. He was not completely innocent no matter how you slice it.

    Wilson may not be completely innocent either, but that is why charges are being investigated. There was at least some justification for his actions. Ask anyone that knows anything about self defense. He felt his life was in danger and neutralized the threat. His actions leading up to that point are what are questionable.

    Sent from my XT1096
    He did it the wrong way! That is the point. He had options, even if he explicitly stated he did not carry a taser. There are a lot of ways to handle people. I rather have gotten my *** wooped as a cop than take the risk of shooting people in the street, I bet however long the altercation lasted reinforcements could have bee there for him no matter what. And quite honestly I don't think he trued to take a cops gun, because who would sanely do such a thing?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    11-25-2014 09:20 PM
  24. A895's Avatar
    There was a black cop who killed and unarmed white kid in Utah at the same time, the press was mute. If Brown was white and Wilson was black I'd suspect we'd have a dead white kid and justifiably so.
    The guy in Utah had a gun and there were reports that there were gunshots in the atea, which was the reason the cop was there. Your counterargument is flawed.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    11-25-2014 09:21 PM
  25. A895's Avatar
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...h-man-fatally/

    Crickets chirping from the mainstream media and public at large, that's what.
    That guy had a gun, different situations. Brown was unarmed.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    11-25-2014 09:22 PM
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