03-22-2016 08:13 PM
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  1. anon8126715's Avatar
    I prefer actions combined with words. Not only has the UN panel condemned ISIS for war crimes, it has not called for any sanctions against the US and its allies for their ongoing military actions. That's pretty much a green light from the UN for coalition military strikes.

    As for the international community's response to the Bush administration, we probably don't see much going on because there are countries that treat their prisoners more severely than the US does. It would be hypocritical to condemn the Bush administration if the other countries are even worse.
    Why should countries that aren't bound by laws such as the Geneva Convention be cited? We can't hold ourselves to different standards for different situations, that's why standards are set. I think we lost credibility in the international community when we started torturing, and it only helps our enemies believe that they're fighting justly.
    11-20-2014 08:55 PM
  2. Scott7217's Avatar
    Why should countries that aren't bound by laws such as the Geneva Convention be cited? We can't hold ourselves to different standards for different situations, that's why standards are set. I think we lost credibility in the international community when we started torturing, and it only helps our enemies believe that they're fighting justly.
    The Geneva Convention is in effect as long as one side follows them.

    Also, the Geneva Convention has different standards for different situations. That's why there are multiple sections to the Geneva Convention.

    If people thought the US was torturing people, they would have voted for John McCain. He is a torture survivor, and has publicly stated that he is against torture.
    11-21-2014 01:38 PM
  3. anon8126715's Avatar
    The Geneva Convention is in effect as long as one side follows them.

    Also, the Geneva Convention has different standards for different situations. That's why there are multiple sections to the Geneva Convention.

    If people thought the US was torturing people, they would have voted for John McCain. He is a torture survivor, and has publicly stated that he is against torture.
    You're assuming that it would be the only issue on the table. Many people believe that water boarding IS torture. McCain appears to be part of the war complex in Washington. It seems like he's always wanting the U.S. to engage. I don't see his stance on torture overcoming his stance on war, and then you're going to assume that a candidate he's pitted against is going to embrace torture. All Bush and Cheney did was re-brand it as "Enhanced interrogation", which is something the right wing has become efficient in doing.
    11-21-2014 02:35 PM
  4. Scott7217's Avatar
    You're assuming that it would be the only issue on the table. Many people believe that water boarding IS torture. McCain appears to be part of the war complex in Washington. It seems like he's always wanting the U.S. to engage. I don't see his stance on torture overcoming his stance on war, and then you're going to assume that a candidate he's pitted against is going to embrace torture. All Bush and Cheney did was re-brand it as "Enhanced interrogation", which is something the right wing has become efficient in doing.
    The bottom line is that McCain is against torture. You're certainly free to disagree with him.

    In any case, I think the US has already moved onto the next phase. We're really not concerned about terrorists we have in custody. We're concerned about the ones that are still roaming free.

    It's probably more efficient to follow radical groups in places such as Europe. Some people will join ISIS and go to the Middle East to fight for them. We simply follow them with our drones until they encounter part of the ISIS network, then bomb them.
    11-22-2014 06:37 PM
  5. anon8126715's Avatar
    The bottom line is that McCain is against torture. You're certainly free to disagree with him.

    In any case, I think the US has already moved onto the next phase. We're really not concerned about terrorists we have in custody. We're concerned about the ones that are still roaming free.

    It's probably more efficient to follow radical groups in places such as Europe. Some people will join ISIS and go to the Middle East to fight for them. We simply follow them with our drones until they encounter part of the ISIS network, then bomb them.
    What I find odd is how someone can be so pro-war and yet take a stance on anti-torture. You know what would be the best deterrence against torture? Stopping all conflict before it starts.
    A895 likes this.
    11-22-2014 06:58 PM
  6. Scott7217's Avatar
    You know what would be the best deterrence against torture? Stopping all conflict before it starts.
    The idea of stopping all conflict before it starts is very compelling. Take the country of Japan. Japanese history is full of accounts of war. It is not unusual to read stories about Japanese soldiers torturing and killing people. Even the original suicide bomber, the kamikaze, is Japanese in origin.

    Modern Japan is completely different. Japan has renounced all war, and they only have a military for self-defense. The Japanese people have a high standard of living and enjoy many modern conveniences.

    The same thing can happen in the Middle East. There can be peace and prosperity if the people there stop all conflicts before they start. If they can renounce war like the Japanese, we may have hope in that part of the world.
    11-23-2014 05:04 PM
  7. anon8126715's Avatar
    The idea of stopping all conflict before it starts is very compelling. Take the country of Japan. Japanese history is full of accounts of war. It is not unusual to read stories about Japanese soldiers torturing and killing people. Even the original suicide bomber, the kamikaze, is Japanese in origin.

    Modern Japan is completely different. Japan has renounced all war, and they only have a military for self-defense. The Japanese people have a high standard of living and enjoy many modern conveniences.

    The same thing can happen in the Middle East. There can be peace and prosperity if the people there stop all conflicts before they start. If they can renounce war like the Japanese, we may have hope in that part of the world.
    I think that might've been a byproduct of what took place in WWII. Maybe one day the rest of the world will experience the level of carnage experienced by the Japanese and will finally realize that war is a vast waste of resources and life.
    11-23-2014 06:17 PM
  8. Scott7217's Avatar
    I think that might've been a byproduct of what took place in WWII. Maybe one day the rest of the world will experience the level of carnage experienced by the Japanese and will finally realize that war is a vast waste of resources and life.
    There are multiple paths to peace. The one that Japan followed went through carnage.

    ISIS doesn't have to go through that. They can simply renounce war and violence. I don't think either of us have a problem with that.
    11-23-2014 07:30 PM
  9. Scott7217's Avatar
    I hear more horror stories about cartels killing a lot of Americans and torturing them in Mexico and slaughtering anyone else, but we aren't sending drone strikes and talking about sending boots there either.
    This is an excellent example of the anti-war movement influencing government policy. The American people are opposed to military intervention in Mexico. The people spoke, and the government listened.
    12-05-2014 06:15 AM
  10. A895's Avatar
    This is an excellent example of the anti-war movement influencing government policy. The American people are opposed to military intervention in Mexico. The people spoke, and the government listened.
    I highly doubt the American people at large are even aware of the atrocities that happen in Mexico.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    12-05-2014 08:02 AM
  11. albinoblacksheep's Avatar
    They know what they are doing because they are getting paid a lot of money by various governments to maintain operations, they are being masqueraded as the faceless enemy in 1984. They are puppets.
    12-05-2014 12:34 PM
  12. A895's Avatar
    They know what they are doing because they are getting paid a lot of money by various governments to maintain operations, they are being masqueraded as the faceless enemy in 1984. They are puppets.
    I'll play along, what are they being puppets for?

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    palandri likes this.
    12-05-2014 10:15 PM
  13. Scott7217's Avatar
    I highly doubt the American people at large are even aware of the atrocities that happen in Mexico.
    So, if more Americans knew about the atrocities in Mexico, there may be more public support for military intervention there. That makes sense.

    I suppose if we gave US citizenship status to more Mexican immigrants, we may see a shift in US policy.
    12-11-2014 08:33 PM
  14. A895's Avatar
    So, if more Americans knew about the atrocities in Mexico, there may be more public support for military intervention there. That makes sense.

    I suppose if we gave US citizenship status to more Mexican immigrants, we may see a shift in US policy.
    I don't know if we need military intervention or more of a political and social reform in their government. If we come in with soldiers and tanks it will be like Iraq all over again.
    12-11-2014 08:43 PM
  15. SteveISU's Avatar
    So, if more Americans knew about the atrocities in Mexico, there may be more public support for military intervention there. That makes sense.

    I suppose if we gave US citizenship status to more Mexican immigrants, we may see a shift in US policy.
    Americans are going to naturally feel different about an armed conflict with a country we share a border with than one that separates us by thousands of miles of ocean. The fist bomb that hits Houston would likely set of an air campaign that levels half of Mexico.
    Scott7217 and A895 like this.
    12-12-2014 09:37 AM
  16. palandri's Avatar
    Don't a lot of people from the states still vacation in Mexico? like Cabo? or has that stopped now due to the drug cartels?
    A895 likes this.
    12-12-2014 10:57 AM
  17. SteveISU's Avatar
    Don't a lot of people from the states still vacation in Mexico? like Cabo? or has that stopped now due to the drug cartels?
    I know a few friends of mine that it didn't stop them. They had a dip in 2011/2012 and then this year it was up by something like 20%.
    12-12-2014 11:00 AM
  18. A895's Avatar
    I know a few friends of mine that it didn't stop them. They had a dip in 2011/2012 and then this year it was up by something like 20%.
    Vacation areas are pretty safe, it is the border cities mostly.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    12-12-2014 11:04 AM
  19. SteveISU's Avatar
    Vacation areas are pretty safe, it is the border cities mostly.
    ^^^^This
    12-12-2014 11:04 AM
  20. Scott7217's Avatar
    Americans are going to naturally feel different about an armed conflict with a country we share a border with than one that separates us by thousands of miles of ocean. The fist bomb that hits Houston would likely set of an air campaign that levels half of Mexico.
    The US would certainly dominate by air, but the major issue would be whether we could achieve our goals without deploying soldiers onto the battlefield.
    12-12-2014 04:57 PM
  21. SteveISU's Avatar
    The US would certainly dominate by air, but the major issue would be whether we could achieve our goals without deploying soldiers onto the battlefield.
    Well you'd have to line the border and take out any and all military instillations that pose a threat to any city in the US which is next to nothing.
    A895 likes this.
    12-15-2014 03:04 PM
  22. Scott7217's Avatar
    Well you'd have to line the border and take out any and all military instillations that pose a threat to any city in the US which is next to nothing.
    The US certainly has the capability. After the military neutralizes the obvious threats, it can follow up with surgical strikes, drone attacks, and targeted assassinations.
    12-16-2014 05:27 PM
  23. Scott7217's Avatar
    Real tough, those ISIS sissies lol.
    When ISIS forces got too close to Ain Al-Assad base in Anbar province (Iraq), ISIS had to retreat once US forces engaged them in self-defense.

    That base only has 100 military advisers. Imagine what fully committed US troops could do.
    A895 likes this.
    12-18-2014 02:46 PM
  24. Scott7217's Avatar
    You might as well have a local U.S. city give ISIS a parking ticket.
    Thankfully, the US will be sending something more substantial than a parking ticket... about 1500 troops.

    PBS NewsHour -- Two top Islamic State group leaders killed, more U.S. troops set to head into Iraq (article link here)

    Excerpts:

    "According to one of the U.S. officials, airstrikes killed a key deputy of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of the Islamic State militants, and one of al-Baghdadi’s military chiefs. A third militant, described as a mid-level leader, was also killed."

    "The top U.S. commander for the mission in Iraq and Syria said Thursday the next wave of American troops will begin moving into Iraq in a couple of weeks, and cautioned that it will take at least three years to build the capabilities of the Iraqi military."
    12-24-2014 12:55 AM
  25. Scott7217's Avatar
    The only area we really have an obligation to fix is Iraq, and the first group of people I'd like to send over to repair the damage is the Bush and Cheney family.
    Then I think you would have no problem sending troops to protect women and girls in Iraq, especially given what ISIS is doing there.

    Amnesty International: Iraqi Yazidi women face torture, sexual slavery and suicide -- The Washington Post (article link)

    Excerpts:

    In Mosul, an Islamic State hub in northern Iraq where extremists have been terrorizing the country’s Yazidi community, hundreds of women and girls have been captured. Many have been forced into marriage, sold as slaves or given as “gifts” to Islamic State fighters and their supporters throughout Mosul and Raqqa, Syria.

    It’s a situation that has driven some speak out, some to flee and some to end their own lives, according to a report released Tuesday by Amnesty International.
    01-07-2015 03:14 PM
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