01-27-2015 06:51 PM
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  1. NoYankees44's Avatar
    So try to avoid civil lawsuits by shooting to kill? I am not saying shoot them in the knee (I won't own a gun anyways, I don't think), so I would rather use a stick to knock them out or (because I am a muscular black guy) whoop some ***. But that is just me. Of course others will differ from my non-kill stance.
    You will almost always get sued civilly if you shoot someone. If not by them, then potentially by their families. Shooting someone else is the last thing you ever want to do.

    You shoot to neutralize the threat. That means aiming for center of mass. The center of mass is also where vital organs are located, so attackers usually die. I don't know why myself and others keep telling you this. You have not knowledge of self defense or the laws that govern self defense circumstances and apparently have no desire to learn...

    No matter how big and strong you are, there is always someone bigger and stronger and knows how to fight better than you. Also, one unarmed person can do little against a group of attackers. You have a much better chance with a sidearm to defend yourself.

    Sent from my XT1096
    12-23-2014 11:13 PM
  2. SteveISU's Avatar
    Domestic violence? He SHOT her and everyone including the girlfriend knew he was heading to NYC. Plus the guy had a rap sheet a mile long. At that point you realize it's not a domestic violence case, but rather one of protecting the safety of the public. And in hindsight, the safety of even their own.

    You are making way too many excuses for police incompetence.

    Posted via Android Central App
    It's domestic violence, you can twist it any way you want. It's a low level street thug that you want Baltimore PD to chase down a bus into where? Philly? Trenton? NYC? Baltimore PD isn't going to chase a bus through Philadelphia. Tell me something though, in your attempt to chase down a bus, what happens when he decides to start shooting up that bus as he realizes he's going down?

    He had family in NY and a kid there, he split time between the two cities. By the time the Baltimore PD got his mug shot to NY and then made them aware of the posts on instagram, it was within 15minutes of the act. Unless you want them to go off on nothing more than "it's a black male", because that would go over well given the current climate in NY.
    12-23-2014 11:20 PM
  3. A895's Avatar
    You will almost always get sued civilly if you shoot someone. If not by them, then potentially by their families. Shooting someone else is the last thing you ever want to do.

    You shoot to neutralize the threat. That means aiming for center of mass. The center of mass is also where vital organs are located, so attackers usually die. I don't know why myself and others keep telling you this. You have not knowledge of self defense or the laws that govern self defense circumstances and apparently have no desire to learn...

    No matter how big and strong you are, there is always someone bigger and stronger and knows how to fight better than you. Also, one unarmed person can do little against a group of attackers. You have a much better chance with a sidearm to defend yourself.

    Sent from my XT1096
    I refuse to believe that the only way to deal with problems is shoot to kill them and no matter how much everyone wants to paint me as some naive ignorant *****, I am not one too believe shooting someone is how you deal with things.

    I mean I am a person who has actually dealt with this type of stuff. I have been robbed, jumped, and been in actual fights and have had my house broken into. In all of those instances, I have never thought to deal with those things by shooting someone to death, sorry if that offends.
    12-23-2014 11:21 PM
  4. SteveISU's Avatar
    I refuse to believe that the only way to deal with problems is shoot to kill them and no matter how much everyone wants to paint me as some naive ignorant *****, I am not one too believe shooting someone is how you deal with things.

    I mean I am a person who has actually dealt with this type of stuff. I have been robbed, jumped, and been in actual fights and have had my house broken into. In all of those instances, I have never thought to deal with those things by shooting someone to death, sorry if that offends.
    Which explains why you can't wrap your head around a cops justifiable use of force. It appears the only time you may be comfortable would be if an assailant is already pumping a cop full of bullets, then what the hell.
    12-23-2014 11:30 PM
  5. Scott7217's Avatar
    So what's the solution? All I am hearing on the news is personal attacks and no solutions, such as, the Mayor has blood on his hands, Obama and Holder have responsibility. Al Sharpton has responsibility. There's a problem. How do we solve it?
    The personal attacks are a way to deflect responsibility and delay change. Also, sometimes people need to vent their emotions before they can move forward.

    The relationship between the people and the police is complex. Perhaps we should start with small ideas first to see if they have any positive effect. While they won't solve the entire problem, they may be better than doing nothing at all.

    For example, if everyone wore body cameras or devices like Google Glass, would that increase the accountability of the police? If the police know that they are under constant surveillance from ordinary people, are they more likely or less likely to commit abuses?
    12-24-2014 12:10 AM
  6. A895's Avatar
    Which explains why you can't wrap your head around a cops justifiable use of force. It appears the only time you may be comfortable would be if an assailant is already pumping a cop full of bullets, then what the hell.
    Wait, what? Where did you get that I support armed assailants shootings cops? Stop reaching please.

    The fact that you don't see killing unarmed citizens as excessive force is disturbing. Thousands of others can see it, but it goes over your ahead apparently.
    12-24-2014 12:30 AM
  7. A895's Avatar
    The personal attacks are a way to deflect responsibility and delay change. Also, sometimes people need to vent their emotions before they can move forward.

    The relationship between the people and the police is complex. Perhaps we should start with small ideas first to see if they have any positive effect. While they won't solve the entire problem, they may be better than doing nothing at all.

    For example, if everyone wore body cameras or devices like Google Glass, would that increase the accountability of the police? If the police know that they are under constant surveillance from ordinary people, are they more likely or less likely to commit abuses?
    Less likely if they know that video is open to that public. Cops reviewing cops behavior as has been shown to be pretty ineffectual.
    12-24-2014 12:31 AM
  8. Scott7217's Avatar
    Less likely if they know that video is open to that public. Cops reviewing cops behavior as has been shown to be pretty ineffectual.
    So that's a positive. Bad cops don't want to be recorded. If more people have cameras, you increase the chance of stopping police abuse.

    Let's move onto another idea...

    What if more people wore body armor, like a Kevlar vest underneath their regular clothes? From what I've been reading, the police are trained to shoot at center mass. They are more likely to aim at the chest and stomach than at the head or limbs.

    If more people wore Kevlar vests, we could decrease the number of deaths from police shootings. Does that make sense?
    12-24-2014 12:42 AM
  9. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I am not saying shoot them in the knee...
    Actually, yes you did.
    Jesus, I would shoot him in the knee or break his jaw. A robber does not need to die, that sounds like someone who is very violent who is willing to kill on site.
    Shooting should be a last resort. But when you shoot, you shoot center mass and pretty much means shoot to kill if they don't stop in their tracks. If I'm at home and someone breaks in, I don't know how strong they are, their fighting abilities, or what kind of weapons they have. So I'd get the strongest weapon I have to have a fighting chance of overpowering them if needed. If they see the gun and leave, fine, I'm not going to shoot. If they try to charge, draw a gun themselves, or otherwise threaten me, then it's time to neutralize the threat.
    12-24-2014 04:43 AM
  10. palandri's Avatar
    Tense scenes in Missouri after police shoot another black teen

    (Reuters) - An 18-year-old black man was shot and killed by police late on Tuesday at a gas station in a St. Louis suburb near where unarmed teen Michael Brown was killed by a white officer in August, police and local media said....

    Tense scenes in Missouri after police shoot another black teen | Reuters

    There should be a gas station video of the incident. I have no idea if the police had video. They say the teen was armed and pointed a gun at the police.

    Update: CNN is showing one camera view of the shooting, camera 29. It appears to show the teen pointing something at the police. There is a closer camera view that hasn't been released. The police had a body camera but didn't have it on. The police dash camera also wasn't activated.
    12-24-2014 07:34 AM
  11. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Tense scenes in Missouri after police shoot another black teen

    (Reuters) - An 18-year-old black man was shot and killed by police late on Tuesday at a gas station in a St. Louis suburb near where unarmed teen Michael Brown was killed by a white officer in August, police and local media said....

    Tense scenes in Missouri after police shoot another black teen | Reuters

    There should be a gas station video of the incident. I have no idea if the police had video. They say the teen was armed and pointed a gun at the police.

    Update: CNN is showing one camera view of the shooting, camera 29. It appears to show the teen pointing something at the police. There is a closer camera view that hasn't been released. The police had a body camera but didn't have it on. The police dash camera also wasn't activated.
    The link says that he was pointing a loaded 9mm pistol. It also says 200-300 people stoked out the station afterwards and threw bricks, fireworks, etc.

    I say let these people police themselves if they are so against police. At this point, an officer couple be beaten almost to death or shot several times before he retaliated and they would still be pissed off. This is really getting ridiculous.

    Sent from my XT1096
    SteveISU likes this.
    12-24-2014 09:22 AM
  12. SteveISU's Avatar
    Wait, what? Where did you get that I support armed assailants shootings cops? Stop reaching please.

    The fact that you don't see killing unarmed citizens as excessive force is disturbing. Thousands of others can see it, but it goes over your ahead apparently.
    A cop or anyone can get easily knocked out with one punch. Simply being unarmed doesn't mean they don't pose a lethal threat. You want cops to go from giving orders, to flashing a light in their eye, to pepper spray, to knight stick, to tazer, to gun. In that order and progress through while someone keeps coming. In the case that sparked all this unrest, Brown went for the cops gun. What do you think he would have done with it if he got it? Drop the magazine, remove the slide, and drop all the pieces on the ground Jackie Chan style like in the movies?
    12-24-2014 09:45 AM
  13. SteveISU's Avatar
    Tense scenes in Missouri after police shoot another black teen

    (Reuters) - An 18-year-old black man was shot and killed by police late on Tuesday at a gas station in a St. Louis suburb near where unarmed teen Michael Brown was killed by a white officer in August, police and local media said....

    Tense scenes in Missouri after police shoot another black teen | Reuters

    There should be a gas station video of the incident. I have no idea if the police had video. They say the teen was armed and pointed a gun at the police.

    Update: CNN is showing one camera view of the shooting, camera 29. It appears to show the teen pointing something at the police. There is a closer camera view that hasn't been released. The police had a body camera but didn't have it on. The police dash camera also wasn't activated.
    Not too bright throwing an explosive device at a gas station.

    In listening to the Police Chief he talked about being down there and talking with a few people at the scene. He said some people asked why the cop couldn't have used pepper spray or a taser. Seriously, this is what these people expect? Point a 9mm at a cop and they want him to use pepper spray? I say were gonna keep seeing protesting because if that's what some of these people expect, then the cops and the public will never see eye to eye.
    12-24-2014 09:54 AM
  14. A895's Avatar
    Actually, yes you did.


    Shooting should be a last resort. But when you shoot, you shoot center mass and pretty much means shoot to kill if they don't stop in their tracks. If I'm at home and someone breaks in, I don't know how strong they are, their fighting abilities, or what kind of weapons they have. So I'd get the strongest weapon I have to have a fighting chance of overpowering them if needed. If they see the gun and leave, fine, I'm not going to shoot. If they try to charge, draw a gun themselves, or otherwise threaten me, then it's time to neutralize the threat.
    If I am going to have a gun, I would learn to wound not kill. That is the type of thing why people want tighter gun laws, people love to go shooting to kill but will not attempt to learn to wound at least.
    12-24-2014 10:39 AM
  15. A895's Avatar
    A cop or anyone can get easily knocked out with one punch. Simply being unarmed doesn't mean they don't pose a lethal threat. You want cops to go from giving orders, to flashing a light in their eye, to pepper spray, to knight stick, to tazer, to gun. In that order and progress through while someone keeps coming. In the case that sparked all this unrest, Brown went for the cops gun. What do you think he would have done with it if he got it? Drop the magazine, remove the slide, and drop all the pieces on the ground Jackie Chan style like in the movies?
    Again, I refuse to speak on Browns case because I still say we don't have the actual facts of what happened. I am not going to talk about that case anymore.
    12-24-2014 10:40 AM
  16. SteveISU's Avatar
    If I am going to have a gun, I would learn to wound not kill. That is the type of thing why people want tighter gun laws, people love to go shooting to kill but will not attempt to learn to wound at least.
    Probably because they're smart enough to know there's a good chance they'll wind up dead. You will never be able to enforce a law that states you must shoot to wound first, then shoot to extinguish the threat. Someone breaks into my house and I put one in their head, if there's a risk I go to jail guess what I'm gonna do when I stand over him? Put one in his leg.
    12-24-2014 10:46 AM
  17. Mooncatt's Avatar
    If I am going to have a gun, I would learn to wound not kill. That is the type of thing why people want tighter gun laws, people love to go shooting to kill but will not attempt to learn to wound at least.
    Ever try skeet shooting with a rifle or pistol?
    12-24-2014 11:29 AM
  18. A895's Avatar
    Probably because they're smart enough to know there's a good chance they'll wind up dead. You will never be able to enforce a law that states you must shoot to wound first, then shoot to extinguish the threat. Someone breaks into my house and I put one in their head, if there's a risk I go to jail guess what I'm gonna do when I stand over him? Put one in his leg.
    Wow, you are violent.
    12-24-2014 12:17 PM
  19. A895's Avatar
    Ever try skeet shooting with a rifle or pistol?
    Skeet shooting=/=learning how to use a gun properly for self defense.
    12-24-2014 12:18 PM
  20. GadgetGator's Avatar
    It's domestic violence, you can twist it any way you want. It's a low level street thug that you want Baltimore PD to chase down a bus into where? Philly? Trenton? NYC? Baltimore PD isn't going to chase a bus through Philadelphia. Tell me something though, in your attempt to chase down a bus, what happens when he decides to start shooting up that bus as he realizes he's going down?

    He had family in NY and a kid there, he split time between the two cities. By the time the Baltimore PD got his mug shot to NY and then made them aware of the posts on instagram, it was within 15minutes of the act. Unless you want them to go off on nothing more than "it's a black male", because that would go over well given the current climate in NY.
    There you go again making excuses. This could have been handled a number of different ways.

    And you know it. You even said so yourself when you dismissed this as domestic violence. Please. If a cop had gotten shot they would have figured out how to deal with the bus situation. They would have moved heaven and earth.

    You are merely reinforcing the problem. It's not only a problem of cops treating white and black crime differently, but also one of them treating one of them being shot urgently while everyone else getting shot is another story.

    EVERY fleeing suspect that has shot someone and ran, should be given the same effort. Period. End of story. Because you never know who they will shoot next.

    For you or the cops to write it off as a domestic violence matter, is ridiculous. He was an armed suspect with a rap sheet a mile long and the matter should have been treated with more urgency. Instead they just watched where he went and let it all happen. Totally inept way of handling it.

    But you want to defend that ineptness. That's just great.

    Posted via Android Central App
    A895 likes this.
    12-24-2014 01:03 PM
  21. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Skeet shooting=/=learning how to use a gun properly for self defense.
    That shows how little you understand about how to actually use the gun for self defense. The reason shotguns are used is because it's impossible to reliably hit a small moving target with a single shot. A skeet isn't much bigger than a kneecap. And that's not even considering the advantage you have with skeets in that they don't change directions unexpectedly. Btw, have you ever seen a person target that shows extremities? You haven't, because they only show the head and body. Aka center mass.

    I think a visit to a paintball field would do you good in this respect. Have someone come charging at you like an attacker and try hitting their knees, hands, gun, and other points just to wound them. I'm being sincere here, because you're talking about learning how to use a gun in self defense yet your idea of self defense goes against every gun training program in existence.
    12-24-2014 01:26 PM
  22. A895's Avatar
    That shows how little you understand about how to actually use the gun for self defense. The reason shotguns are used is because it's impossible to reliably hit a small moving target with a single shot. A skeet isn't much bigger than a kneecap. And that's not even considering the advantage you have with skeets in that they don't change directions unexpectedly. Btw, have you ever seen a person target that shows extremities? You haven't, because they only show the head and body. Aka center mass.

    I think a visit to a paintball field would do you good in this respect. Have someone come charging at you like an attacker and try hitting their knees, hands, gun, and other points just to wound them. I'm being sincere here, because you're talking about learning how to use a gun in self defense yet your idea of self defense goes against every gun training program in existence.
    I'm done here then. Shoot to kill, remember that kids.
    12-24-2014 01:54 PM
  23. NoYankees44's Avatar
    I'm done here then. Shoot to kill, remember that kids.
    Or don't shoot at all. If you are not prepared to kill someone in defense of yourself, then you should not grab a gun. Dealing with the reality that you will probably kill someone if you find yourself in a situation that warrants the use of your firearm is step one. Not everyone is willing to face that reality, but to many including myself, not being able to protect my family or myself is would be worse than having to potentially kill someone.

    It is the first thing any self defense instructor will tell you.

    Sent from my XT1096
    12-24-2014 04:47 PM
  24. A895's Avatar
    Or don't shoot at all. If you are not prepared to kill someone in defense of yourself, then you should not grab a gun. Dealing with the reality that you will probably kill someone if you find yourself in a situation that warrants the use of your firearm is step one. Not everyone is willing to face that reality, but to many including myself, not being able to protect my family or myself is would be worse than having to potentially kill someone.

    It is the first thing any self defense instructor will tell you.

    Sent from my XT1096
    Unless someone else has a gun, I see no reason to shoot at them. I think people are trying to paint me as some ignoramus or something. But I am a person who has been in situations EXACTLY like that (potential robbery, theft, fights, being jumped), and I am telling you, even if I had a gun, I would not kill them.

    I am more prone to using my fists before a weapon, and that is how I survived growing up. But my experiences I guess means little. Whatever.
    12-24-2014 05:00 PM
  25. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Unless someone else has a gun, I see no reason to shoot at them. I think people are trying to paint me as some ignoramus or something. But I am a person who has been in situations EXACTLY like that (potential robbery, theft, fights, being jumped), and I am telling you, even if I had a gun, I would not kill them.

    I am more prone to using my fists before a weapon, and that is how I survived growing up. But my experiences I guess means little. Whatever.
    If you believe that you don't need a firearm to defend yourself, then so be it. That is your belief and there is nothing myself or anyone else can say about it. It is not right or wrong. Just like my decision to arm myself.

    Not the concept of "shoot to wound" however is a complete fantasy. A fantasy invented by Hollywood and people that know nothing about guns.

    Sent from my XT1096
    12-24-2014 05:33 PM
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